Switching to EL 34

south89

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I don't have a lot of knowledge when it comes to amps so I figured I'd ask my fellow Prs nuts. I'm thinking about switching the 6L6 tubes to EL34 on my archon. Just curious is possible and if so how do I do it and what kind of EL34 tubes would be best for the archon ?
 
I did it with my Custom 50. All I had to do was change the bias a bit, was fairly easy, just needed a voltmeter and some patience. I went with the Ruby tubes, no issues so far.
 
It's supposed to be possible, but when I tried it recently with my Archon, the amp blew a fuse. Twice. I went back to the 6L6s, and everything has worked fine since.

I'm contact with PRS and the tube supplier now, to try to figure out what went wrong.

As for the tonal change, check the comparison clips in the Archon section of the PRS main site.
 
A quick update on this for anyone who's interested:

Still no joy on the EL34 Archon swap, despite having tried two different matched, burned-in quads of Ruby EL34BSTRs. Specifically, the center 10A/250V fuse (as viewed from the rear of the chassis) blows just moments after I flip the amp to the standby setting. Reinstalling the stock 6L6s returns order to the galaxy, albeit a galaxy sadly devoid of crunchy, British-style midrange.

I've not heard back from the PRS tech folks regarding my latest e-mail, but I remain hopeful that we'll be able to sort out this issue eventually.

In the meantime, has anyone here successfully completed this swap, and, if so, did you run into any similar problems along the way?
 
No I haven't done it yet but now after reading your comment maybe I will wait. Keep us in the loop when you get it figured out.
 
I really like my Custom 50. How did the tone change with the EL34s? Did they reduce the gain?

11top, forgive me if I'm telling you what you already know, I'm just throwing this out there as general info:

EL34s can increase the perceived tightness of an amp, and give a more focused crunch, because EL34s tend to break up more in the midrange and have a bit less bass. It's not that they necessarily reduce or increase the distortion, it's that they put it in a different part of the frequency spectrum. And different EL34s and 6L6s will break up at more or less volume depending on the tube.

So you could get higher gain with a particular 6L6 or a particular EL34, but things will vary from tube to tube.

But before swapping power tubes this is also true: the more you depend on preamp gain, the less a power tube swap will make a noticeable difference. If you're running your preamp to produce high gain as is done with most modern two channel amps, it's all about the preamp tubes, and you'll honestly get more bang for your buck experimenting on the front end of the amp.

Example: I had a Mesa Tremoverb that ran either tube, and did quite a bit of experimentation swapping them, and ultimately I concluded that it didn't matter which tube I used, the differences were about as audible as if I'd simply tweaked a tone control. But of course the Mesa was all about the preamp section of the amp, as its nearly 100 watts cranked was deafening.

I've had other amps where the power tubes really did make a difference, but they were different kinds of beasts designed to use power tube distortion.

However, if you run less preamp gain, and prefer to crank the amp for power tube distortion, you'll hear differences between power tubes. But an increase or decrease in gain will depend on the design and production of the tube itself, and not necessarily the designation of EL34 or 6L6. As an example, NOS Philips 6L6 WGBs will break up faster than an EL34, and can sound very similar, whereas most 6L6s have more bass, and more clean headroom, than most EL34s.

As an example, you see clean amps like Twins with 6L6 glass, contrasted with gainier amps like Marshalls using EL34s. But a lot also depends on the preamp section and tone stack. Then you have amps like Vox AC30s that use those little glass EL84s to break up the amp, and that gets very loud, but you can't simulate that "crushed glass" thing with preamp tube breakup IMHO (however the EF86 tube in the preamp section seems to matter).

Again, forgive me if I'm preaching to the choir, and you already know this.
 
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I'm no expert but I understand a bit about basic electrickery. I assume what is happening is the EL34's have less resistance, so therefore for the same voltage, the current is going to be higher, therefore blowing the fuse when you flick the power. If this was happening to me, I would adjust the bias BEFORE putting the EL34s in. Which way? Hotter or colder? Not sure! Logic says colder i.e. less voltage since V=IR... I'd go to the coldest setting and the adjust the bias up from there and see what happens!

Hopefully someone else can chime in more on this...
 
For me, the Custom 50 with the 6L6s felt 'tight', and that the EL34s seemed to loosen the amp up a bit. The clubs that I play, I can't really open the amp up too much. I usually run the gain on the lead channel at about 1 to 2 o'clock, have an Ego Compressor in front of the amp, and I just started putting an MXR-10 graphic EQ in the loop. I roll off the low end using the EQ, by taking out everything to 250 hz, and the top end of 12.5 kHz. I do a bit of mid bump around 4k with the EQ.

One thing I noticed, which is why I started using the EQ, is that the amp's EQ is working with the gain / channel volume. One night, I turned down the lows on the amp, and the crunch / distortion seemed to disappear. That's why I dug out my MXR pedal, I pushed the lows on the amp, but cut out the clutter frequencies using the graphic EQ.

With the changes I've done, the amp sits well in the mix, and has a very Marshall-y vibe. I'm very happy with it.
 
A quick update on this for anyone who's interested:

Still no joy on the EL34 Archon swap, despite having tried two different matched, burned-in quads of Ruby EL34BSTRs. Specifically, the center 10A/250V fuse (as viewed from the rear of the chassis) blows just moments after I flip the amp to the standby setting. Reinstalling the stock 6L6s returns order to the galaxy, albeit a galaxy sadly devoid of crunchy, British-style midrange.

I've not heard back from the PRS tech folks regarding my latest e-mail, but I remain hopeful that we'll be able to sort out this issue eventually.

In the meantime, has anyone here successfully completed this swap, and, if so, did you run into any similar problems along the way?
Bummer, I was hoping to throw EL34's in one of my Archons. I'd hate to blow $ on a quad and not be able to use them.
 
My next step is to try a slow-blow fuse in place of the center 10A/250V fast-blow that keeps going out. (Sounds dicey, I know, but I got the OK from PRS.) I'm waiting on the fuses to arrive now, and will provide an update once they do.

Oh, and I thought of the bias trick as well, justmund; sadly, it did not help.
 
Success! I ended up having to swap both 10A/250Vs for slow-blows, but that finally did the trick. I'm waiting to hear from PRS as to whether this a safe way to run the amp long term, but for now it's working and sounding great.

As for the resulting changes, they're about what you'd expect: less headroom, more compression, a smoother attack and a more pronounced midrange focus. As a primarily lead player with a Marshall (and Marshall-type) background, I'm really enjoying it so far. That said, the stock configuration is probably a better choice for gut-punching modern rhythms and crystalline ultra-clean tones.
 
Good to hear. Think I'm going to give some JJ 6ca7 or KT-77s a shot. I'll be sure to grab some slo-blo as well.
 
Good to hear. Think I'm going to give some JJ 6ca7 or KT-77s a shot. I'll be sure to grab some slo-blo as well.

I'd check with PRS before trying the KT77s, as they specifically told me that tube type wasn't compatible. In retrospect, I should have asked why, as they're interchangeable (with a bias adjustment) in most EL34 amps. Too tall, maybe?
 
I'd check with PRS before trying the KT77s, as they specifically told me that tube type wasn't compatible. In retrospect, I should have asked why, as they're interchangeable (with a bias adjustment) in most EL34 amps. Too tall, maybe?


Could be the screen resistors not able to withstand the KT type tubes, BTW Rising do you have any clips with the el34
 
I'd check with PRS before trying the KT77s, as they specifically told me that tube type wasn't compatible. In retrospect, I should have asked why, as they're interchangeable (with a bias adjustment) in most EL34 amps. Too tall, maybe?
Hmmmm, yeah they're usually interchangeable w/EL-34. Well, if they said its a no-go, I won't waste the time.
 
Well, if they said its a no-go, I won't waste the time.

Okay, let's go over this again.

This is the Internet.

You do not - NOT - just gracefully accept that a company will not give you something you want! You are supposed to rant and rave, curse the company and everyone who's ever seen anything associated with the company, and DEMAND THAT THEY DO WHAT YOU WANT!!!!

Then you storm off the forum because, by god, this is an official forum and the company and all it's tattletale fanbois won't take your side.

Are we clear now?

iStock_000005307293Small.jpg
 
Here's a quickie recorded with a Zoom Q3HD. Not my best work, but you get the gist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_ZT1G1Uki0


Sounds very cool ,I can really hear the difference now a lot better between the 6l6 and 34s.

The 34 definetly makes the lows a lil softer and the amp have more of a modded British vibe

Do you find that the cleans are still good or if you tune to drop D for say something like the Shinedown Madness you still get that tight low end chug or are those things somewhat compromised ??

Thanks for the clips really much easier to hear the diff
 
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