Scale Length Whiplash

[Skeeter]

Without a current gig where I'd focus on a couple guitars for practiced sets, I've just been floating around my different guitars - and going from a 594, to regular PRS 25", and to other F and G scale length guitars - I'm feeling a scale length "whiplash". Bending too sharp or flat, fumbling over fast runs due to different fret spacing - even with your ear guiding you, your muscle memory is fighting you all over the place!

I know, these are good first world problems, and it's really just been funny how incompetent and crappy my playing can get when I'm rotating around a lot. 25" still feels like home pretty quickly, since I've been a PRS fanboy since age 18 - but otherwise my fingers are confused as of late

Anyone else identify?

 

[Dusty Chalk]

Witness! I actually hurt myself the other week, and it's not just scale length -- radius, neck shape, classical string spacing -- any one of those are enough to finger-tie me.

 

[shinksma]

I play electric guitars of varying scale lengths (typically the PRSi scale lengths of of 24.5 to 25.5"), bass, baritone, mandolin, and banjo, plus acoustics of varying scale length (I have no idea what ranges, probably around 25.5"). And this is at gigs or practice, not just casually where I have time to fumble a bit and adjust. So there is one thing I can say: I adapt fairly quickly!

I was playing 25" and 24.5" electrics, bass, and acoustic just tonight.

Or maybe I'm just "not proficient" at all of them!

 

[László]

I've got no problem going back and forth between scale lengths or neck styles on my PRSes. I have no idea why.

 

[BWV548]

I understand your problem. I have a couple of things that help me
1) a quick round of scales, quite slow, then speeding up, on the guitar you just switched to. This may not always be practical
2) this helps me most: I spend about half my practice time, on a given guitar, playing unplugged. I find that it gives me a more detailed tactile sense of the instrument, and that *may* help with muscle memory. This is, of course speculation, but I find that after a few weeks, i automatically approach each instrument as itself.
Not sure if that makes any sense

 

[Deleted member 5962]

The faster you are playing and the more intricate the riff, the more you notice it. I could make free throws all day on a 10'6" rim, but start playing live in a game and it would mess me up bad. Move home plate back 2 feet and see how many pro pitchers have problems throwing strikes. But move the mound back 3 feet in softball and it was no problem for any pitcher.

We had a big guitar git-together weekend for members of another forum a few years ago. One of the guys commented that I always seem watch my fingerboard when I play. I said that's because I played a strat, a PRS, and Les Paul and a bass in a 4 hour period, and as long as I WATCH what I'm doing, I was ok with that. If I take my eyes off, I'd be dead fretting, etc. But stick with any one of those guitars for a while and I'd be OK.

As for the bending, that's a constant struggle with different scale lengths, different string gauges, different headstock string patterns, headstock angles, bridge styles, string break angle over the bridge, spring tension.... I tried to learn on anything but fast bends, to bend with my ears more than my fingers.

 

[coyote]

I'm used to bending notes on a Strat. After 30 years of that, bending on the new (less than two years) PRS still finds me occasionally 'sharp'.

 

[CVS]

I rotate through guitars fairly often & sometimes have issues with finger picking, especially when switching between PRS and "F" type guitars. The good news is that after about 10 minutes, things get better....I have never had any issues with string bends, solos or fingering chords. I guess I am just lucky. Maybe it is because of my overall level of proficiency (mediocre) to begin with.

 

[ReptilianNosewood]

I think because my reference is not palm on bridge as much as it is forearm weld to the body, no matter what axe or scale length im playing on, my arm falls to the same position it would on a 25.5 as it would on a 24.5, they never feel much different to me.

 

[Lee B.]

Neck profiles and string spacing don't really faze me, but scale length differences trip me up majorly. I love the PRS 25" scale length because I can cleanly fret jazz chord shapes, but still have enough room to play chords and scales runs up the neck. I've spent a good chuck of my play time over the last year relearning the songs I like to play all over again, because my muscle memory is hardwired for 25.5" after playing Strats and superstrats forever and a day. I've never been able to cleanly switch back and forth from a Fender to a Gibson, I flubbed stuff left and right when I tried it. And now with the EG and the SC 250 I have both styles of guitar with the same scale length. Gonna be a whole lotta fun. ;-)

 

[elvis]

I feel you! I have 24.5", 25" and 25.5" guitars that I rotate. I can have a lot of trouble overbending or underbending. I actually hadn't thought about that as a muscle memory thing until I read this. Huh.

 

[Skeeter]

I started this thread as kind of a joke and making fun of myself, but lots of interesting thoughts and perspectives from everyone. Obviously neck shape, nut width and radius play a role too. But I'd say besides maybe nut width/string spacing, the other factors don't seem to affect me as much as scale lengths for whatever reason.

2) this helps me most: I spend about half my practice time, on a given guitar, playing unplugged. I find that it gives me a more detailed tactile sense of the instrument, and that *may* help with muscle memory.

I totally agree with this - I usually have one "couch buddy" guitar that I play unplugged or with my small coffee table amp. And when I get a new guitar, I like to spend a lot of time with it like this - really lets you bond with a guitar and hear its natural tone and capture its overall feel. And it's the easiest way to adjust to a different scale length - things such as the subtle difference in vibrato to 1.5 step bends, compound bends, Albert King type bending, etc... Much easier to transition when seated and concentrating - so when you're playing with a loud drummer and the bullets are flying, you can rely on that feel/bond (muscle memory) when it's a little harder to hear yourself clearly or your ears and hands just aren't cooperating for whatever reason.

The faster you are playing and the more intricate the riff, the more you notice it. I could make free throws all day on a 10'6" rim, but start playing live in a game and it would mess me up bad. Move home plate back 2 feet and see how many pro pitchers have problems throwing strikes. But move the mound back 3 feet in softball and it was no problem for any pitcher.

Also very true in my experience- if I go from a 25.5" Strat or super-Strat to my 594 or other sub 25" - I go from blazing sextuplet runs to clam city. Same with blues playing with its subtle aspects re the speed of your bending, the in-between notes, type of vibrato, etc..So the type of music definitely plays a role.

Thankfully, as many have noted, at worst it might just take 10-15 mins or a few songs to get used to something if it's truly causing problems.

And of course, variety is the spice of life! And it's cool when these variations in specs inspire something different in your playing.

 

[starscream67]

Totally agree. I came to PRS from the Gibson camp and fell for the 25" scale length immediately. I now have PRS 245, Custom 22, SE Singlecut, SE Custom 22 plus Fender MIM Telecaster and Schecter KM-6 and the guitars I play the most have the 25" scale length, 2nd are the 25.5" and I hardly ever play the 24.5".

 

[P90s]

Without a current gig where I'd focus on a couple guitars for practiced sets, I've just been floating around my different guitars - and going from a 594, to regular PRS 25", and to other F and G scale length guitars - I'm feeling a scale length "whiplash". Bending too sharp or flat, fumbling over fast runs due to different fret spacing - even with your ear guiding you, your muscle memory is fighting you all over the place!

I know, these are good first world problems, and it's really just been funny how incompetent and crappy my playing can get when I'm rotating around a lot. 25" still feels like home pretty quickly, since I've been a PRS fanboy since age 18 - but otherwise my fingers are confused as of late

Anyone else identify?

I'm the same way. Slow stuff or cover song riffs don't bother me but for improvising it's a big deal to change necks to the extent that i'm even thinking of picking one specific PRS neck profile for all guitars in regular rotation to eliminate the problem. Pattern seems to be the most common neck, although Regular is my favorite. New PRS models like the 594 have binding so a recarve isn't an option.

 

[veinbuster]

I have no idea how many different neck sizes I have, but it is a lot. It mostly doesn't impact me much with a couple of exceptions. If I haven't played my classical in a while, I'm likely to not catch a couple of strings cleanly with the left hand for a few minutes. Same thing with the short scale Santana on the top 4 frets or so.

Just proof that you should never neglect your Santana.

 

[bodia]

Just proof that you should never neglect your Santana.

This is fact! And, if you don't have a Santana, you need to get one! Best.Kept.Secret.Ever. On second thought, never mind. They're nothing special. Leave them all for me.

 

[MA Pete]

I can relate re scale length! I am extremely sensitive to scale length.

Honestly, the widest gap/variation I seem to be able to tolerate is 24.594" to 24.75" (including that middle step of 24.625"), so three scale lengths very close, 24 19/32", 24 20/32" and 24 24/32". I could delineate between the three blindfolded.

My preference is the 24.594" and 24.625". Even the 24.75" feels a hair long for me. Not to open up a can of worms, but most Les Paul's I have owned (mostly Custom Shop Historics) have been 24.625" and NOT 24.75". People who are adamant they are 24.75" are just plain incorrect, according to my fingers.

I have tried over the years to bond with the 25" scale, and I just can't. I was a huge fan of the 24.5" scale on the DC and SC 245 for many years, but I always felt it was a hair too short. It was my only option for something shorter than 25" from PRS. But once the 24.594" scale came out and I bonded with it IMMEDIATELY, I was out of love with the DC and SC 245's much to the chagrin of my wallet and my awesome collection of 24.5" Private Stocks.

The one exception to my narrow requirement for scale lengths of 24 19/32" to 24 24/32" is a 25.5" Stratty guitar. For the Strat tones I can dig a 25.5" SSS guitar, my current one is a great 2009 305. I use that for when I am seeking those tones learning and playing stuff requiring those tones.

The 594 scale feels (and sounds) just perfect for me, thus the vast collection of SC 594's!

 

[MA Pete]

This is fact! And, if you don't have a Santana, you need to get one! Best.Kept.Secret.Ever. On second thought, never mind. They're nothing special. Leave them all for me.

I would love a 594 scaled Santana or DC 22. That is on the PS wishlist, waiting for someone else to take care of that CNC Charge.

 

[bodia]

I would love a 594 scaled Santana or DC 22. That is on the PS wishlist, waiting for someone else to take care of that CNC Charge.

Hope you don't have to wait long!