Measuring Scale

[Tucson Thump]

Today I measured the scale of my 2012 SC/HBII. I had always figured it to be 25", and sure enough the midpoint 12th fret was 12.5" but I was surprised to see that the 25" overall measurement to the saddle was at the low E string.

On the guitars that I have with floating bridges (1963 ES-350, 1967 Gretsch Nashville, 1970 Johnny Smith DS) I always wondered where to slide that sucker around to for setting the correct scale.

So is the Low E string the universal "scale setting" luthier point for electric guitars with floating bridges?

 

[László]

What, did a serpent hand you fruit from the Tree of Knowledge?

Put the ruler down and step away from the ruler! It's bad juju to know these things! Stuff like this is supposed to be a mystery.

Now I'm gonna have to haul out the gris-gris, the skeleton finger, mix up some eye of newt and fig newtons, play Voodoo Child, get out the Ouija Board and hope I can get in touch with Mack Rebennack's ghost to figure out how to keep the world from ending.

Wish me luck!

"World ending in 15 minutes."

"This isn't a James Bond Movie, go away."

"World ending in 14 minutes and 30 seconds."

"Come on ghost of Mack Rebennack!"

"The Ouija Board is responding."

"World ending in 10 minutes."

"Mack, what should I do?"

[Ouija Board spells out 'Sprinkle Some Gris Gris On Your Amplifier."]

"OK, I'm starting to mix up the gris gris now."

"World ending in 15 seconds. 14 Seconds. 13 Seconds. 12 Seconds. 11 Seconds, 10 Seconds. 9 Seconds. 8 seconds..."

"Done!"

"End of world clock stopping at 007 seconds."

Man, that was a close call! When do I wind up in a rubber raft with the gorgeous Bond girl?

"Wrong movie."

"OK, do I get sex with the crown Princess of Shangri-La for saving the world?"

"Yes. But not in this life."

"You mean...? "

"Yes. It's the end of the world for you, Mr. Bond. Prepare to be handed your accordion in Hell!"

"I like accordions."

"That's one of many reasons you're headed down instead of up."

{SFX} Zzzzzzzaaaaappppp!

 

[aphantomvaper]

Dat fretboard scale tho...

 

[Tucson Thump]

What, did a serpent hand you fruit from the Tree of Knowledge?

Put the ruler down and step away from the ruler! It's bad juju to know these things! Stuff like this is supposed to be a mystery.

Now I'm gonna have to haul out the gris-gris, the skeleton finger, mix up some eye of newt and fig newtons, play Voodoo Child, get out the Ouija Board and hope I can get in touch with Mack Rebennack's ghost to figure out how to keep the world from ending.

Wish me luck!

"World ending in 15 minutes."

"This isn't a James Bond Movie, go away."

"World ending in 14 minutes and 30 seconds."

"Come on ghost of Mack Rebennack!"

"The Ouija Board is responding."

"World ending in 10 minutes."

"Mack, what should I do?"

[Ouija Board spells out 'Sprinkle Some Gris Gris On Your Amplifier."]

"OK, I'm starting to mix up the gris gris now."

"World ending in 15 seconds. 14 Seconds. 13 Seconds. 12 Seconds. 11 Seconds, 10 Seconds. 9 Seconds. 8 seconds..."

"Done!"

"End of world clock stopping at 007 seconds."

Man, that was a close call! When do I wind up in a rubber raft with the gorgeous Bond girl?

"Wrong movie."

"OK, do I get sex with the crown Princess of Shangri-La for saving the world?"

"Yes. But not in this life."

"You mean...? "

"Yes. It's the end of the world for you, Mr. Bond. Prepare to be handed your accordion in Hell!"

"I like accordions."

"That's one of many reasons you're headed down instead of up."

{SFX} Zzzzzzzaaaaappppp!

It says you edited this at 12:18 AM today, so I know it isn't a martini moment .... well, I'm guessing actually.

 

[ViperDoc]

Don't forget about compensation at the saddle depending on the string you're testing. They can be all over the place depending on the strings you're using. "25 inches" is a basic starting point, give or take a whisker.

 

[László]

It says you edited this at 12:18 AM today, so I know it isn't a martini moment .... well, I'm guessing actually.

I guess it's finally time to come out:

I suffer from ludificationes humor, commonly known as 'The Delusion Of Being Funny Syndrome'.

Unfortunately, I'm not alone. Millions of men have it, and many are never diagnosed or treated. The disease starts with seemingly insignificant Dad Jokes, and over time the patient develops a manic feeling that tells them 'Hey, I'm actually funny'.

In the terminal stage of the disease, the patient has the irresistible urge to constantly post their idea of humorous things on Internet forums, but fails to amuse anyone but himself. Because the patient does this far into the late hours, the patient eventually dies from lack of sleep.

Women rarely suffer from this illness, but there are rare cases of women patients reported in the literature.

Unfortunately, there is no cure for ludificationes humor. However, the spread of the disease in the brain can be slowed with medications. Some of these meds have unpleasant side effects, such as the urge to wear clown shoes, or buying promotional cardboard cutouts of Ronald McDonald. One patient is known to have died from diarrhea of the brain. The good news is that research is ongoing, and doctors at Voodoo Labs have reported progress.

If you notice yourself or someone in your family telling worse and worse Dad Jokes, it might be time to consider tests for ludificationes humor.

Don't be embarrassed to discuss your symptoms with your doctor. It's not like you have E.D.

 

[Tucson Thump]

Don't forget about compensation at the saddle depending on the string you're testing. They can be all over the place depending on the strings you're using. "25 inches" is a basic starting point, give or take a whisker.

I understand that with compensation the saddles can't all be at exactly 25" on the SC/HB2. But for the floating bridges I'm trying to get whichever string is used for "proper scale length intonation" so I minimize having to slide the bridge across the top surface and possibly scratching the finish. My thought was to have only that string on to hold the bridge down and then set the high E string and the others should be very close to usable intonation overall. The Gretsch bar bridges seem to have the least flexibility since you just have grooves on the bar, and while the ES-350td and the Johnny Smith D have saddles on the unpinned wooden base the main concern is that the base is positioned to give the saddles the proper range for correct intonation.

 

[deepender]

I guess it's finally time to come out:

I suffer from ludificationes humor, commonly known as 'The Delusion Of Being Funny Syndrome'.

Unfortunately, I'm not alone. Millions of men have it, and many are never diagnosed or treated. The disease starts with seemingly insignificant Dad Jokes, and over time the patient develops a manic feeling that tells them 'Hey, I'm actually funny'.

In the terminal stage of the disease, the patient has the irresistible urge to constantly post their idea of humorous things on Internet forums, but fails to amuse anyone but himself. Because the patient does this far into the late hours, the patient eventually dies from lack of sleep.

Women rarely suffer from this illness, but there are rare cases of women patients reported in the literature.

Unfortunately, there is no cure for ludificationes humor. However, the spread of the disease in the brain can be slowed with medications. Some of these meds have unpleasant side effects, such as the urge to wear clown shoes, or buying promotional cardboard cutouts of Ronald McDonald. One patient is known to have died from diarrhea of the brain. The good news is that research is ongoing, and doctors at Voodoo Labs have reported progress.

If you notice yourself or someone in your family telling worse and worse Dad Jokes, it might be time to consider tests for ludificationes humor.

Don't be embarrassed to discuss your symptoms with your doctor. It's not like you have E.D.

Very good…
Go eat a Twinkie.

 

[ViperDoc]

I understand that with compensation the saddles can't all be at exactly 25" on the SC/HB2. But for the floating bridges I'm trying to get whichever string is used for "proper scale length intonation" so I minimize having to slide the bridge across the top surface and possibly scratching the finish. My thought was to have only that string on to hold the bridge down and then set the high E string and the others should be very close to usable intonation overall. The Gretsch bar bridges seem to have the least flexibility since you just have grooves on the bar, and while the ES-350td and the Johnny Smith D have saddles on the unpinned wooden base the main concern is that the base is positioned to give the saddles the proper range for correct intonation.

That would be true if all the strings were of the same thickness. I struggle with the correct terminology, but the thicker the string, the greater the center axis offset, the less relative deformation or tightening of the lower strings when fretted. Therefore, greater deformation = sharper resultant note; that requires a shorter scale length to compensate for the higher/thinner strings.

 

[Prs Mods too]

The small e string is the one that should be 25" from nut to saddle.

 

[deathworlder]

The small e string is the one that should be 25" from nut to saddle.

Yep...with the saddle adjusted as far forward as possible.

Intonation only happens by moving the saddles rearward of scale length(increasing overall length)

The highest string requires the least amount of adjustment and is why you set it forward. It also affords the lowest string saddle as much rearward travel as possible.

 

[archtop]

Grab your favorite tuner and see where your intonation is on all strings. Guitars with floating bridges take compromise to fine the best bridge location - depending on bridge style (compensated or not) some strings might have to intonate a little sharp/flat to get them all acceptable. With the Gretsch bar bridge you'll have more compromise than a compensated archtop bridge.

Actual scale is determined by how precise the neck heel and neck pocket were made, once the neck is mounted/glued then intonation is all that matters.

 

[Bogner]

That would be true if all the strings were of the same thickness. I struggle with the correct terminology, but the thicker the string, the greater the center axis offset, the less relative deformation or tightening of the lower strings when fretted. Therefore, greater deformation = sharper resultant note; that requires a shorter scale length to compensate for the higher/thinner strings.

Say That Ten Times Fast!

 

[Tucson Thump]

The small e string is the one that should be 25" from nut to saddle.

Yep...with the saddle adjusted as far forward as possible.

Intonation only happens by moving the saddles rearward of scale length(increasing overall length)

The highest string requires the least amount of adjustment and is why you set it forward. It also affords the lowest string saddle as much rearward travel as possible.

From a tech at StewMac

"The high E usually ends up right at the scale length depending on the string gauge. You will still need to move the bridge slightly comparing the open notes to the fretted 12th fret note to dial in the intonation but the initial placement will get you close to the right spot.'

 

[Prs Mods too]

From a tech at StewMac

"The high E usually ends up right at the scale length depending on the string gauge. You will still need to move the bridge slightly comparing the open notes to the fretted 12th fret note to dial in the intonation but the initial placement will get you close to the right spot.'

Correct, the thin e string.