New tuning buttons

I haven't quite made up my mind about the new tuners yet. Initially I thought they looked awful but after looking at them and then looking back at the Phase 3 buttons...the originals start to look a bit small and weird to me. Might be my brain playing tricks on me but I'll have to give it some thought as to which ones I'll want on my PRS. The suggestion from Paul that tone will be affected is a bit daft, but then I also think the suggestions that this ia cost cutting exercise are also a massive exaggeration. Yes plastic is cheaper than metal, but enough to shift the profit margins on Core PRS guitars? Unlikely.
 
I’m fine with the new buttons as long as they can be swapped. Wood, fake bone, ivory, black plastic ebony could always be resourced and swapped in with ease. I agree less weight is ideal for neck diving issues. For tone purposes? You lost me there. I’m simply not that nuisance a player or listener to appreciate the increased musicality.

I am also a fan of old school fender vintage tuners (safe-ti posts). They locked in their old quirky ways. Were much lighter. Nice clean look with no fear of stabbing myself if I touched the head stock. And can be found by different manufacturers to have improved tuning ratios. The locking tuners with the big thumbscrew on the back are much heavier. I can’t say I hear a difference in tone. I think they used steel or some metal in the tuners back in the day, not brass like PRS (which I do agree brass is better). Never heard somebody complain about the tones of strats back in the day :p
 
Alnus Rubra said:
You guys just need to buy the 594 Santana Retro, Phase III tuners and a proper guitar shape, original headstock shape and it’s a Santana. Do I need to say more?
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Yeah, I noticed that all Signature models kept the "old-style" tuner buttons.

I am actually warming up to a new tuners shape. I think they look slick.
 
The more I think about it, I really wish he’d just said that he always wanted this look and he thinks lighter is better - and left it at that.

Tying it to tone is just feeding live ammo to the critics. This is where a founder-owner needs people to edit him.
 
Ovibos said:
Tying it to tone is just feeding live ammo to the critics. This is where a founder-owner needs people to edit him.
Click to expand...

But you're talking about someone who not only believes it, he can probably hear it. I remember when they announced a wiring update for the original issue 513s (this was a very early change - not the one that I believe eliminated the PCB). I talked to someone at the factory about it and asked if it really made a difference. He said, "Well, Paul says it..." and explained it. I said, "Can *you* hear it?" He looked around, then just shook his head.

And I get it - those of us who can't hear these things (think Eric Johnson and batteries) think it's nuts. But I've heard too many stories to think that it's not true. One that jumps out was from a guy who build bass amp cabinets. He built one for a guy who was known to be rather particular, and the guy told him, "Make sure it doesn't emphasize this frequency. I hate it when that gets a bump." Built the cab, hand delivered it, and the guy tested it while he was there, back to the builder. The builder said he was by the amp head, and he didn't believe the guy could hear that frequency, so he reached over and started to turn that up, and said he'd barely moved the knob when the guy yelled, "I told you I don't like that frequency bumped up!" So if a guy like Paul says he hears something, I take him at his word.
 
alantig said:
But you're talking about someone who not only believes it, he can probably hear it. I remember when they announced a wiring update for the original issue 513s (this was a very early change - not the one that I believe eliminated the PCB). I talked to someone at the factory about it and asked if it really made a difference. He said, "Well, Paul says it..." and explained it. I said, "Can *you* hear it?" He looked around, then just shook his head.

And I get it - those of us who can't hear these things (think Eric Johnson and batteries) think it's nuts. But I've heard too many stories to think that it's not true. One that jumps out was from a guy who build bass amp cabinets. He built one for a guy who was known to be rather particular, and the guy told him, "Make sure it doesn't emphasize this frequency. I hate it when that gets a bump." Built the cab, hand delivered it, and the guy tested it while he was there, back to the builder. The builder said he was by the amp head, and he didn't believe the guy could hear that frequency, so he reached over and started to turn that up, and said he'd barely moved the knob when the guy yelled, "I told you I don't like that frequency bumped up!" So if a guy like Paul says he hears something, I take him at his word.
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Possibly true, yes. I still believe that emphasizing it is a marketing ‘own goal’.
 
I am not a fan of plastic tuner buttons. That is one thing I really disliked about the silver sky. If one of those happens to strip out, you have to replace the whole tuner. I did change the tuners on my first PRS, CU22, to pearloid buttons like what EB uses. I just like that look so I figured why not when I found the buttons. I can't say I heard any difference in sustain when I changed them. I have actually been thinking of putting the stock buttons back on it. The buttons is one thing I don't love on my DGT. They had a lot of issues with the early ones stripping out. That is the kind of thing that can happen when you use plastic.

I didn't like the shape of the new buttons when I first saw them. I am already getting used to them and don't mind them as much. I would like them better if they were metal.
 
drgordonfreeman said:
I actually like the new tuner buttons. I’m the opposite: not sure I ever really got along with the aluminum tuners.

I have a much bigger issue with the fact the Custom 24’s are all routed for that freaking goofy shaped / proprietary shaped Paul’s pickup. It’s a great sounding pickup, and I could see myself keeping it in there; however, if there ever came a time I wanted to change the sound of the pickups, I wouldn’t be able to. I find that unacceptable on a $5,000 guitar. I’m quite sure they could have made Paul’s pickups fit a standard-sized route. This is probably the only deal breaker regarding the new changes, and it’s the one thing that would prevent me from purchasing a new Custom 24.

Going back to the tuners, if you want to swap the new tuners for Phase IIIs — although, it seems the only difference between the new tuners and Phase IIIs is the button — it looks like it’ll be a direct swap.

Some reference pics below.

All my Private Stocks have Phase III’s with ebony wood buttons. Top view:


IMG-1719.jpg




Back view showing two screws per tuner:


IMG-1720.jpg




I have an SE Hollowbody II from a couple years ago. Those tuners are non-locking, I’m guessing because it’s a stoptail. Incidentally, it stays in tune perfectly. I’ve maybe had to retune this thing twice on this pair of strings. Nonetheless, these tuners only have one screw per tuner.


Front view:


IMG-1721.jpg




Back view showing one screw per tuner:


Full-Size-Render.jpg
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I misspoke here. Only the 24-08 has Paul's pickups in it. The Custom 24 is still the 85/15. So I'm going to take back what I said. I actually think it's great they offer Paul's pickups on one of the guitars, while the others are still the normal route size or 85/15 pickups. Paul's pickups sound great, and the only issue is their wonky size. If you don't have to live with that on every Core Custom variant, then I think it's a great idea to offer those on one of the variants. Like I said, they're great sounding pickups.

The more and more I look at the new tuners, the more I like them, honestly. What would be super cool is if they offered them in a higher-end material, like a mother of pearl type material or something like that. I really like the wood buttons, so even that would be cool, too. The faux mammoth ivory tusk they used to offer would be really awesome; although, I don't think they offer that material anymore on their guitars. Someone keep me honest on that statement.
 
I don't like them, and I am probably one of the few fan-boys that is making drastic moves in other directions because I don't like where the guitars keep going. The "improvements" to me always seem to lack forward innovation - though the NEW 2408 appeals to me because I do really like those narrow 408/Paul's/TCI (whatever they are called these days). I came to the fold because the guitar were forward thinking and classy. If I wanted to pay "G" guitars, I would.

I am glad there is a used market!!!! I am really fond of the guitars of the 57/08 and 59/09 era.....(including the tuning buttons and finishes - I hate nitro).
 
RickP said:
I think he’s on to something… 50,000,000 Spam cans can’t be wrong!

vintage-spam-can+with+key.jpg
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Spam tone


Ovibos said:
The more I think about it, I really wish he’d just said that he always wanted this look and he thinks lighter is better - and left it at that.

Tying it to tone is just feeding live ammo to the critics. This is where a founder-owner needs people to edit him.
Click to expand...

Did you not watch the opening of the “Archive” video: “No edits!”
 
Bogner said:
So These Tuning Buttons Were His Dream All These Years And He Is Just Now Getting Around To Putting Them On His Guitars?
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It does beg the question . . . maybe it just wasn't possible to fashion them without today's advances in manufacturing!
 
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