New Amp -OR- Midpriced modelers -OR- Is anyone here (still) playing a Tonex?

aamefford said:
So my father in law brought us a bunch of bananas 'cause no single person can eat a whole Costco bunch. He also brought a 40 year old Monterey D26 classical guitar. It's made in Korea by Kaman. It seems pretty cool. Strings were hammered, but only about a half step flat, and decently close to in tune, and in fine shape, near as I can tell. Got a set of strings, now I just need to figure out how to do the Fishermans knot at the bridge and whatever is done at the pegs. The fretboard is completely flat. Kinda cool all in all.
Click to expand...
Cool! I need an acoustic, or two...
 
Ok, update on the TONEX. It’s cool for what it is, and worth the price in my opinion. It is most emphatically not competition for a fully featured modeler such as an Axe Fx, Kemper, or the like. Get that out of your head and it becomes a lot easier to wrap your head around what, exactly, it is.

As a guitar amp or amp/cab only modeler, it’s not bad! You can certainly get usable and useful tones out of it, even from the included presets. Once you get it set up on your computer (reserve some time, it’s a bit of a slog), the options expand exponentially. Literally thousands of presets. If you’re looking to build, say, 3 presets to play through your gig, it’s super easy. You can build those on the pedal itself.

There are also just stomp box models, in case you want to put the Tonex in front of your amp. I didn’t try that, as I have plenty of the real thing if that’s my aim.

The computer interface, in my opinion, is far less user-friendly and intuitive than it could be. For as few real editing options as it has (compared to an Axe Fx, for example), it’s difficult to sus out how to do things easily… it simply doesn’t come naturally to me at all. Maybe I’m too familiar with Axe Edit or FM9 Edit from Fractal. I’ll grant that. But having just watched Sweetwater’s demo of the Fender Tone Master Pro, it’s apparent that editors can be much more intuitive that this is. Not impossible, and it works fine once you get it, but IK Multimedia has its own way. If you’ve used Amplitube or other IK stuff, you’re golden. If not, settle in, you’ve just got to learn. Thankfully, all that’s not necessary to just edit and save stuff on the pedal. Summary: I’m not a fan of the editor implementation or it being tied into everything Tonex-ecosystem. It does work, but takes more effort than it should.

We did a rehearsal with my guitar buddy playing his Tonex rig: a pedal board with stomp boxes before and after the Tonex then into my RCF NX12SMA. My FM9-T was running to an Atomic CLR. Both sounded good; totally usable together for a full band tone. In the end, that was the goal; to find him an option to regular amps/cabs when volume or stage area made it a concern. Mission accomplished. I bought my Tonex as a backup to my FM9, should the unexpected happen (after a dozen years of Fractal gigging, I’ve had zero failures). It will work but, in truth, I’ll eventually buy an FM3 or another FM9. Why? Full compatibility with what I play. The sound of Tonex is fine. I could do a whole gig on it. I just prefer my FAS gear, and am comfortable with it. I’d consider the new Fender modeler, but it’s more expensive than a FM9-Turbo and is relatively unproven in the pro touring world, and in how it will be supported. But I think they’ve come up with the best interface and editing system I’ve seen so far, specifically the way it works on the pedal itself.

Anyway, that’s my totally unscientific contribution to the subject of this thread. It helped me, and I hope someone finds it useful in their search. Over and out!
 
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aamefford said:
And the Kemper sold out from under me. Damn. First cash wins though.
Click to expand...
Lesson learned.
dmatthews said:
Rats! Ah well.... a hunting ye shall go...
Click to expand...
And "a finding I did go!" Sweetwater Gear Exchange. A really good price on what looks to be an excellent condition example, with the cute Kemper bag for it. Factory reset, so no mountain of profiles. I'm actually taking the lack of profiles as a positive. If there are any particular profiles that are super desirable for:
Fenderish clean
Otherish cleans I should consider
Plexi-ish Classic 70's & 80's
JCM800 Hair/brown/old metal 80's
Brown Sound as above
Petty and the heartbreakers Vox
May and in particular older Queen Vox (Shear Heart Attack era and A Night at the Opera era)
Dripping distorted lead tone
Chug
Dumble-ish just to round it out to 10
Oh, and for #11 (should be #13 given the band) Whatever Buck Dharma from BOC plays on Agents of Fortune and Fire of Unknown Origin, and the live version of Godzilla.

I'm sure my friends here will make appropriate recommendations either from the volume of profiles that Kemper provides, or "must have" third party options.

Anyway,lesson learned on the last one - asked just enough questions to make sure it was in the described condition (excellent) and wouldn't stink up our master bedroom with cig/skunkweed/bongwater smells and to see if there was help on price. It will arrive ... whenever ... I'm excited, and also hoping I'm not repeating the PodGo loop. I think I've learned enough since the PodGo experience to properly use the Kemper. (Thanks to @DreamTheaterRules for uh, STRONGLY recommending I get pedals with knobs instead, to learn how pedals and amps work). I ditched the PodGo, and followed that advice. I have a modest pedalboard that I'll retain for the little Mesa, and maybe with the Kemper, though probably not needed there.


OK, enough long winded already.
 
RickP said:
Ok, update on the TONEX. It’s cool for what it is, and worth the price in my opinion. It is most emphatically not competition for a fully featured modeler such as an Axe Fx, Kemper, or the like. Get that out of your head and it becomes a lot easier to wrap your head around what, exactly, it is.

As a guitar amp or amp/cab only modeler, it’s not bad! You can certainly get usable and useful tones out of it, even from the included presets. Once you get it set up on your computer (reserve some time, it’s a bit of a slog), the options expand exponentially. Literally thousands of presets. If you’re looking to build, say, 3 presets to play through your gig, it’s super easy. You can build those on the pedal itself.

There are also just stomp box models, in case you want to put the Tonex in front of your amp. I didn’t try that, as I have plenty of the real thing if that’s my aim.

The computer interface, in my opinion, is far less user-friendly and intuitive than it could be. For as few real editing options as it has (compared to an Axe Fx, for example), it’s difficult to sus out how to do things easily… it simply doesn’t come naturally to me at all. Maybe I’m too familiar with Axe Edit or FM9 Edit from Fractal. I’ll grant that. But having just watched Sweetwater’s demo of the Fender Tone Master Pro, it’s apparent that editors can be much more intuitive that this is. Not impossible, and it works fine once you get it, but IK Multimedia has its own way. If you’ve used Amplitube or other IK stuff, you’re golden. If not, settle in, you’ve just got to learn. Thankfully, all that’s not necessary to just edit and save stuff on the pedal. Summary: I’m not a fan of the editor implementation or it being tied into everything Tonex-ecosystem. It does work, but takes more effort than it should.

We did a rehearsal with my guitar buddy playing his Tonex rig: a pedal board with stomp boxes before and after the Tonex then into my RCF NX12SMA. My FM9-T was running to an Atomic CLR. Both sounded good; totally usable together for a full band tone. In the end, that was the goal; to find him an option to regular amps/cabs when volume or stage area made it a concern. Mission accomplished. I bought my Tonex as a backup to my FM9, should the unexpected happen (after a dozen years of Fractal gigging, I’ve had zero failures). It will work but, in truth, I’ll eventually buy an FM3 or another FM9. Why? Full compatibility with what I play. The sound of Tonex is fine. I could do a whole gig on it. I just prefer my FAS gear, and am comfortable with it. I’d consider the new Fender modeler, but it’s more expensive than a FM9-Turbo and is relatively unproven in the pro touring world, and in how it will be supported. But I think they’ve come up with the best interface and editing system I’ve seen so far, specifically the way it works on the pedal itself.

Anyway, that’s my totally unscientific contribution to the subject of this thread. It helped me, and I hope someone finds it useful in their search. Over and out!
Click to expand...
Super excellent review and evaluation for your use case, thank you @RickP
 
aamefford said:
Lesson learned.

And "a finding I did go!" Sweetwater Gear Exchange. A really good price on what looks to be an excellent condition example, with the cute Kemper bag for it. Factory reset, so no mountain of profiles. I'm actually taking the lack of profiles as a positive. If there are any particular profiles that are super desirable for:
Fenderish clean
Otherish cleans I should consider
Plexi-ish Classic 70's & 80's
JCM800 Hair/brown/old metal 80's
Brown Sound as above
Petty and the heartbreakers Vox
May and in particular older Queen Vox (Shear Heart Attack era and A Night at the Opera era)
Dripping distorted lead tone
Chug
Dumble-ish just to round it out to 10
Oh, and for #11 (should be #13 given the band) Whatever Buck Dharma from BOC plays on Agents of Fortune and Fire of Unknown Origin, and the live version of Godzilla.

I'm sure my friends here will make appropriate recommendations either from the volume of profiles that Kemper provides, or "must have" third party options.

Anyway,lesson learned on the last one - asked just enough questions to make sure it was in the described condition (excellent) and wouldn't stink up our master bedroom with cig/skunkweed/bongwater smells and to see if there was help on price. It will arrive ... whenever ... I'm excited, and also hoping I'm not repeating the PodGo loop. I think I've learned enough since the PodGo experience to properly use the Kemper. (Thanks to @DreamTheaterRules for uh, STRONGLY recommending I get pedals with knobs instead, to learn how pedals and amps work). I ditched the PodGo, and followed that advice. I have a modest pedalboard that I'll retain for the little Mesa, and maybe with the Kemper, though probably not needed there.


OK, enough long winded already.
Click to expand...
Congrats! There Are A Lot Of Great Profiles Out There But The Unit Comes With Many Also. Once You Get Familiar With The Unit And IF You Still Have A Need I Will Be Glad To Offer Suggestions But In All Truth You Really Might Not Need Anything Additional.
 
Adder that I’ll *probably* put my UA Dream 65 up for sale to try and recoup some funds. Also maybe my EH Rams Head Pi fuzz. If that sounds exciting to anyone, let me know.
 
My Kemper Stage should arrive tomorrow! It hasn’t gotten here, and I’m already intrigued by the kone, kabinet, power kabinet and Fender FR-12 or FR-10. Anyone have experience they care to share? How you liked them, what amp with the passive Kabinet, how the speaker profiles worked out? Are the fender options better/worse/different?

I’m in no hurry to act on my curiosity. I have headphones, powered monitors and a Fryette PS2 with an open Mesa 1x12. If I can’t make sound with that stuff, I’m in trouble.

I’m just intrigued by the Kemper and Fender options so thought I’d ask.
 
aamefford said:
My Kemper Stage should arrive tomorrow! It hasn’t gotten here, and I’m already intrigued by the kone, kabinet, power kabinet and Fender FR-12 or FR-10. Anyone have experience they care to share? How you liked them, what amp with the passive Kabinet, how the speaker profiles worked out? Are the fender options better/worse/different?

I’m in no hurry to act on my curiosity. I have headphones, powered monitors and a Fryette PS2 with an open Mesa 1x12. If I can’t make sound with that stuff, I’m in trouble.

I’m just intrigued by the Kemper and Fender options so thought I’d ask.
Click to expand...
Welcome to the wonderful world of options... :D
You will be well served with the powered monitors, and to some degree the headphones as well. The headphone amp in the Kemper is very well regarded.
Did I post my Kemper output/speaker journey in here before? If not I can share.
 
OK, I looked but was not specific, so here we go...
First attempt was to send the Kemper to the effects return of my loved PRS Custom 50 combo. It works, and sounds OK, but in reality it eliminates the versatility of choosing different amps, and because I had no choice on the speaker there was even less flexibility with rigs overall.
Then I tried my old Fender PA with 80w into two 10" cabs. Better versatility, sounded good but was a PITA to transport and gig with. Better but not great.
Then I got a Yamaha DXR10. This powered speaker blew my mind. It had all the frequency response, and a big punch with a pile of coverage. I did a 300 person wedding gig with it as my only sound source (backline) and no FOH/PA. Wonderful, but still... something missing...
Then I got a XiTone MBritt powered 12" coax speaker. It got me a little closer to the missing "pant flap" feeling on stage. Very good but not great.
Then I tried a Bose L1 II. What an incredible unit! I ran my vocals and the Kemper through it and dayum... very good!

And then... Kemper came out with the Kabinet. I bought the unpowered Kab and a Kone speaker immediately. The plan was to put the Kone into my MBritt powered speaker and run stereo.
Because I'm a dumbass I forgot that the amp in the MBritt needs a coax speaker, so... fail!
As a result I got a local guy to make a clone of the Kabinet and put the Kone in it.
All that being said, I now run the Kemper into either a Seymour Duncan SD 700 amp, and to the Kab, or into a Camplifier to the Kab.
The moral of the story (for me) is that the SS amp, along with the Kab give me the missing "pant flap" on stage/in the room, the off axis sound is awesome, and the flexibility is second to none.
Now... someone who is into recording or not gigging would likely be very happy with powered monitors and headphones. Others have been gigging DXR10 and numerous other devices and are super happy. It is of course all subjective.
My journey was based on stage/backline/pant flap desires with the ability to send to FOH. Last gig I did was exactly that and was flawless. Very satisfying.
So yeah... TMI? Maybe, but that was my journey...
Happy to answer any questions any time. :)
 
dmatthews said:
I think we're into more of a subjective... erm... subject regarding power amp choice.
The reason Kemper suggests SS is because they are (if done correctly) flat/no colour. This helps the rigs/profiles stay more true to the way they were created.
Most all tube based amps have some sort of colouration, and that can be a positive or a negative with rigs, be they Kemper, Helix, AxeFX, or any device like that.
Then of course the speaker choice is a big part of the equation. Some say the biggest part.
For these reasons I ended up with SS amps (Seymour Duncan and Camplifier) and the Kemper Kabinets. This in order to preserve as much of the originally intended rigs/profiles as possible.
I've tried running Kemper through my Custom 50 effects return, an older Fender PA, a Yamaha DXR10, a XiTone MBritt powered speaker, a Bose L1, and finally the Kabinet with SS amp.
Many players use a tube amp and regular guitar speaker. That takes some of the versatility away, but if that's the tone you love there is no wrong choice. Just turn the speaker block off and away you go!
The powered Kemper head uses a SS module made by IcePower. I chose the SD 700 because it uses the same IcePower modules.
Rambling thoughts... :)
Click to expand...
@dmatthews This looks like your input output notes. Anything else?

Edit - Never mind… And thanks!
 
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The Kemper Philosophy Is For Everything To Remain As Neutral As Possible So That The Profile Is As Pure As Can Be Because, As We Know, Everything In The Chain Can Color. The Powered Kemper With The Kemper Kone Cabinet Is A Nice Way To Go. For Unpowered Units The Powered Kemper Cabinet Is The Way Around The First Scenario I Mentioned Above. When You Start Going Other Routes Things "Can Begin To Change."

That Doesn't Make A Choice Wrong...It Is Simply Just Different. As Long As A Person Knows That Going Into It Then All Is Well. You Can Get Some Amazing Sounds Using The Kemper In All Kinds Of Ways. Running A Separate Power Amp And A Traditional Cabinet Of Some Sort Works Great! The Good News Is You Can Adjust/Set It Up In Any Manner You Choose/Want/Need. I Am A Big Fan Of The Kemper Cabinet And The Neutral Thing They Do...Makes The Profiles Very Pleasing And Keeps Them "Pure" So To Speak. I Am Also A Big Fan Of Fryette's Stuff And Use A Fryette LX II Power Amp On My Non Powered Unit. You Will Be Fine With What You Have So No Worries There! If You Are Going To Add Anything More To Your Kemper Rig And Kemper (The ComPany) Makes It Then I Personally Would Go That Way Because You Know It Has Been Tested And Designed To Work With The Other Kemper Products.

I Am Excited For You! :)
 
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I'm still playing around with the Tonex, though futzing-around time has been harder to come by lately.

The pedals in front are my go-to KOT/Cornish CC-1 and SS-3. The output goes into an FTT Ambi-Space, then the big old Fender PA head I tried it with first; out through a pair of 1x12 Celestion Black Shadow cabs.

Objective: avoid carting a Two Rock around with me on my travels.


Verdict for Month 2: so far so good :)
 
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