Let's talk veneer

[Lewguitar]

Absolutely. So let’s talk about that and compare:
• Epiphone 59 Les Paul Reissue:
Gibson Bluesbucker 2 and 3 pickups- together with vintage wiring/volume and tone controls, and CTS pots the sound is unmistakably that of a good Les Paul. The hardware (mostly Switch Craft) is solid and robust. The VOS matte finish looks vintage and feels good to the touch.
• PRS McCarty 594 SE:
58/15 SE pickups - they weren’t bad but were a little dark, and lacked definition.
Electronics/switchgear - this where I had some problems. The input jack clip did not make solid contact with the cord jack. The taper on the controls was nonexistent. I considered rewiring and replacing the pickups as well as the tuners as some recommended on this board. In the end there was too much to overcome.

I have owned 8 PRS guitars, and this is the first one that was a bit of a letdown. I did not expect it fully measure up to my core or S2 models, but I was disappointed that it did not measure up the the Epiphone which sells for the same price.

What’s the difference in cost?

The biggest shortcoming with SE’s tends to be the pickups and controls.

Upgrade that and you have a pro sounding guitar.

 

[Longneck Tenon]

What’s the difference in cost?

The Epi is 50 bucks cheaper.

 

[Lewguitar]

The Epi is 50 bucks cheaper.

I'll bet it's not better than any of my Bernies.

But I never played that Epi so who knows?

 

[Longneck Tenon]

I'll bet it's not better than any of my Bernies.

But I never played that Epi so who knows?

We both like our guitars, that is what matters.

 

[Glide-bpm]

I would say that it wouldn't cost PRS much per SE guitar to improve the pickups, jacks,pots and wire quality. I feel like they should. I love my SE Orianthi flame top, but I have custom hand wound pickups, rewired the whole guitar, and swapped out for a MannMade tremelo.

 

[László]

While 'drives me crazy' may not be a dealbreaker in a wife

so true.

 

[vchizzle]

Since the veneer bothers you, don’t buy one. If the Epiphone appeals to you, go for it, but they aren’t built any better than an SE regardless of the tops being “a lie”. Hell, Norlin era LP’s sell for thousands these days and those are multi piece everything all over. For my money, hold out for an S2 SC that’s not in great cosmetic condition. You can get them in the $8-900 range if you wait and look for them. Can even score core Mira’s with patience if you accept a road dog.

 

[Moondog Wily]

I would say that it wouldn't cost PRS much per SE guitar to improve the pickups, jacks,pots and wire quality. I feel like they should. I love my SE Orianthi flame top, but I have custom hand wound pickups, rewired the whole guitar, and swapped out for a MannMade tremelo.

You are correct that it would not cost them that much to make those adjustments. It would however have a significant impact on their S2 and Core sales if they were to do so I would conjecture ;~)) The more it is like a core or S2, the less reason there is for people to buy those more expensive products!

 

[Glide-bpm]

You are correct that it would not cost them that much to make those adjustments. It would however have a significant impact on their S2 and Core sales if they were to do so I would conjecture ;~)) The more it is like a core or S2, the less reason there is for people to buy those more expensive products!

True, but it might not affect core and S2 sales regardless. Those of us that buy those aren't going to change our stripes that much.

 

[Lewguitar]

I would say that it wouldn't cost PRS much per SE guitar to improve the pickups, jacks,pots and wire quality. I feel like they should. I love my SE Orianthi flame top, but I have custom hand wound pickups, rewired the whole guitar, and swapped out for a MannMade tremelo.

That's what you get with a "Student Edition" guitar.

PRS does them better than anyone else, IMO, but that's what SE's are.

Pickups that are inexpensive to make are a long standing practice with student guitars

Ever play a Gibson Melody Maker? No P90 or humbucker. Just a cheap single coil with no polepieces. Like the pickups on the Student Edition Fenders of yesteryear: Duo-Sonics, Music-masters and Mustangs.

PRS at least provides a "good" pickup in the SE's. Some are even really good like the SE Silver Sky pickup.

But PRS USA would be competing with themselves if they put PRS USA pickups in imported SE's.

Many of us "HOT ROD" our SE's into pro guitars with pickup and hardware swaps and I'm not entirely sure that's not what Paul had in mind with the SE.

It's what guys (and some rare gals) do!

I'm sure Paul did the same thing in his younger days.

 

[Lewguitar]

You are correct that it would not cost them that much to make those adjustments. It would however have a significant impact on their S2 and Core sales if they were to do so I would conjecture ;~)) The more it is like a core or S2, the less reason there is for people to buy those more expensive products!

There ya go. It'd be a bad business move.

Just leave the SE's alone and let the owners improve them themselves by swapping hardware and pickups and controls.

IMO, guitarists ought to be able to do that anyway.

Like building a hot rod out of an old Ford or Chevy.

 

[László]

I know your advice comes from a good place, almost fatherly in that respect. But none of us should presume to know what someone else may or may not like in a guitar. I have seen a lot of people get chastised on other boards for their preference of guitar (sound familiar Lew Guitar?), and I don’t want to see that happen here. Opinions are good, and occasionally helpful. But we have to make our own decisions and live with the consequences or rewards.

What you're saying is very true!

On the other hand, absent a very pressing need, it rarely hurts to slow down and take stock of what you really want. That was the real advice, the rest was just me phumphering around with my own opinions.

I got the feeling reading between the lines that Aahzz himself felt the Epi would be a compromise. That might indeed be supposition on my part.

 

[László]

I've made an awful lot of mistakes being in a rush to sell things, change direction, get different inspiration, whatever the excuse may be.

Too often it's just been me having the big idea to get some piece of equipment, and looking around for a way to fund it. Though sometimes, that does make business sense. It all depends.

It's pretty sad to admit that I've had 37 Core and up PRS', any number of which I bought not just once or twice, but several times.

"7 McCartys ring a bell, Laz?"

"Remind me what those are again..."

Penny wise, pound foolish.

 

[Longneck Tenon]

I would say that it wouldn't cost PRS much per SE guitar to improve the pickups, jacks,pots and wire quality. I feel like they should. I love my SE Orianthi flame top, but I have custom hand wound pickups, rewired the whole guitar, and swapped out for a MannMade tremelo.

What is even more frustrating is that most of the more expensive S2 models have the same pickups, wiring and switchgear as the SE models. My S2 Vela and Mira are exceptions to this more recent trend since they were designed some time ago and got locking tuners, USA made pickups, etc. But some of the hardware wasn’t the best, like the pickup switch on my Vela that failed while testing the guitar!
The factory sent out a new switch promptly, but if the guitar wasn’t good in all other respects I would have been more concerned.

What you're saying is very true!

On the other hand, absent a very pressing need, it rarely hurts to slow down and take stock of what you really want. That was the real advice, the rest was just me phumphering around with my own opinions.

I got the feeling reading between the lines that Aahzz himself felt the Epi would be a compromise. That might indeed be supposition on my part.

It’s always good to take stock of the situation. I think we have all been guilty of moving too fast into a purchase without thinking things through entirely. I don’t know if that was the case or not Aahzz or not. Seemed like he was trying to just sound a few things out, but I could be totally wrong. One thing I do like here is that most people are just trying to help and give people the benefit of their experience. There will be different opinions, and that’s okay.

 

[frankencat]

Not trying to talk Aahzz out of his opinion but there are some really amazing looking veneer tops around. Veneers have been a part of instrument manufacturing since the dawn of time. There is nothing inherently wrong with it as a practice or in terms of quality. It is 100% aesthetic.

 

[Tonart]

Alright - so, as many of you know, I went all acoustic recently, and have discovered that I still want some electric. I bought a Strat, a small pedalboard, and an amp that I adore (Marshall Origin 50C). The Strat, on the other hand, I don't adore - it's a Blacktop Strat, 2 buckers...great neck, but at the end of the day, not the tone that I want.

I'd love to get back to PRS...but I'm on a definite budget at the moment. Core is right out, as is S2. I'd love another Vela...but I'm also looking for something more classic, more Les Paul sounding. McCarty 594 seems right up my alley.,

I'm looking at the SE McCarty 594 - used, it's in my range...but dangit, that veneer top drives me crazy. It feels like a lie to me - no depth, it's like a beard colored with "just for men". And, it goes with a multi-piece, usually badly matched, back. I looked at the SE 594 Singlecut Standard, but most of those have a badly matched multi-piece top to go with the badly matched multi-piece back. It just looks BAD, in my opinion.

On the flip side, I'm looking at some plain top Epiphone Les Pauls, and they look, play, and sound really good...and the top is honest. I really *want* to go PRS, but is it too much to ask to have a 2 piece maple plain top?

Do the veneer tops bother anyone else as much as they bother me?

I can see your point. I think SE 594’s would look cool with plain maple tops with a stain and burst.

I suppose PRS is synonymous with the flame maple look, and there’s be an unmanageably large product line if every model had a plain maple top variant.

I for one really love the look of my SE. I really don’t see it as a “veneer” but as an exquisite looking thing. I guess I take the rays of light reaching my eyes literally, on a prima facie basis. But that’s just me.

Oh the best way to get round the multi piece back issue is to get one with a dark back:

 

[frankencat]

Yeah man, a solid color or a plain top/all hog DC would be great. The Thinline is cool but still a little too much $$ new and I haven't seen to many used Thinlines for sale.

 

[garrett]

I don't do veneers. Do yourself a favor and buy an SE DGT in Goldtop. You're welcome.

If you're set on a Singlecut, another idea is an older SE Singlecut. They did 'em in black and white. The original Tremonti SE is a great model, too. I miss the subdued workhorse aesthetic of the old SE range.

Or maybe a used S2 Singlecut will meet budget.

I was thinking about an SE 594 Singlecut Standard, too. They just slap three pieces of wood together for the bodies, so you'd need to wait until you find one that floats your boat visually.

 

[Aahzz]

While I completely understand the periodic itch to get something different - I'm that guy, too - I'd like to recommend something else:

Slow down!

No doubt you've heard the expression, "Buy right, buy once."

You made the switch to all-acoustic. That turned out to be a Big Idea that didn't work for you. You decided to get back in the electric game and settled for a Strat only recently. That's not working out, either.

Do you think settling for Epiphone Les Paul will float your boat in the long run? I'm willing to bet it will not. It's a lateral move from mediocrity to mediocrity (sorry Epi fans).

You don't care for the construction of an SE. Nothing wrong with that, personal choices and personal satisfaction are what this guitar thing is all about!

My suggestion would be play the Strat for a while - you made that choice, and it was a compromise. Seems to me you're off and running to another compromise - you're practically saying so yourself - and since you likely won't be any happier with an Epi than a Strat in the long run, I don't see the point.

Don't do it.

Exercise a little patience, and get something that will work better for you a little ways down the road. You had a high quality PRS Vela - a pair in fact - that you loved and sang the praises of. For good reason!

Live with the Strat for a while, don't settle for second best with your next guitar, and when the timing is right get what you really want.

You know what?

You're right.

I was just playing the Strat for a bit, and it's a nice guitar - it plays very well, and it sounds great. It's a Blacktop Strat, so 2 Humbuckers and a 5-way switch that give it a lot of versatility. I realized I've been playing pretty much entirely in the morning, which is when I like to play - but the young adults that live under my roof are night dwellers, and sleep late - thus, I haven't been playing at anything like gig volume. I'm normally OK with that, but I do need the occasional blasting session to remind me what the tone of my gear actually is.

I had that blasting session this afternoon, and it was glorious.

I've also long been a serial trader, mostly for the joy of playing with a new toy. I regret few, if any, of the guitars that have left me over the years - the ones I'd probably want back most are my 08 Sunburst 22, my 99 Les Paul Classic, and my 94-ish Custom 24. Don't get me wrong, there'll be a Vela in there as well, but all of the Velas I owned have been great so I don't miss a specific one of them. Other than that, I've enjoyed (almost) all of the guitars for a time then have been happy to move them on and try something else.

Now, I have all the parts to build a partscaster, I'm just waiting on Mrs Aahzz to finalize the paint design and paint the body. Once that's built, I may put this Strat back up for sale depending on how similar they sound...but for now, going to enjoy the Strat.

 

[László]

You know what?

You're right.

Wait...My wife says that's impossible!

Seriously, I realize you didn't need me to be the fly in the shopping ointment. You'd have come to the same conclusion. It'll be interesting to check out your Partscaster once you get it finished!