Getting A Handle On The DG 30 Custom Amp

[László]

How did you get that stereo image of a single guitar like that? Bright in the left speaker, beefy in the right. Almost a slight delay in the left speaker.

Tweaked a reverb, a little parallel processing. Simple stuff.

I listened again to my track today, and I think I set the amp way too bright, and should have set the gain lower and the master higher. I'm hearing too much preamp tube distortion and not enough stuff from the power tubes.

Well, what's a guy to do. That's just how it goes sometimes!

 

[László]

Yeah, I definitely had the preamp set too high for the power tube setting. I was going for bright, clean, etc., but the amp really sounds a lot warmer when it's set up right.

Not that it was bad, I just could have done a better job.

Today I played through the DG30 with the SC245, and it was every bit as nice sounding as the Artist V. I had guessed that the SC would be a bit too much for the DG, but that proved incorrect. It sounds great!

 

[Boogie]

No Les, that sounds really good. Your perfectionist ear is getting in the way. That roundness shows up quickly and seems almost like a bit of power stage compression. Good stuff! The 6V6 character is really there, too and begs for a more open cab, but don't sell your Recto cab short. Again, it sounds really good.

Your choice of ambience is close to my preference...soft but complex echo with some modulation. El Capistan-style with your Eventide (or is it the other way around?). It shows off the definition in the high end and will probably do well with a little dirt, too. Keep the clips coming!

 

[László]

Wow, good ear, Boogie, as I did have the Eventide set for a bit of tape delay emulation when I kicked it in, and I had the ModFactor set for the slightest amount of chorus at first, then turned it off!

True, the Recto cab is a very versatile piece of equipment, and it's pretty darn flexible. But you're hearing what I'm hearing with the amp needing a bit more of an open cab, too.

We must have very similar taste! I'll keep the clips coming as I learn more about the amp, and how to best record it. I think the Royer really captures the sound of the amp in the room. I may have put it too far off-axis, as I wanted to prevent damage to the ribbon, so I'd like a do-over on that as well!

 

[prsrocker1988]

Great info LS!

I've been very interested in this amp and the 50 watter.

I play through old Blackface amps (Twin and Super Reverbs mostly) that are loud and proud, and very clean. I rely on dirtboxes for the overdrive and I like a good pedal platform that is a great foundation that is pure and not too grungy or dark. I like a lot of high end in my sound - as I tend to bridge country and classic rock playing together. This amp sounds very cool. The only amp I use cranked up and gainy on it's own is my old Tweed 5E3 Deluxe which I use for recording and jamming only. I love the tone of British and Tweed amps but I like the versatility of gain pedals and Blackface cleans. I was wondering how this amp sounds as a clean platform. The 50 watter would probably be better for that, but I'm guessing here. I love DG's tone but we are very different when it comes to a guitar sound. Yet I find myself liking the cleans of this amp from what I've heard.

I haven't had a chance to try out one but hopefully in the next couple years I can check one out. Maybe the next PRS Experience.

 

[László]

Great info LS!

I've been very interested in this amp and the 50 watter.

I play through old Blackface amps (Twin and Super Reverbs mostly) that are loud and proud, and very clean. I rely on dirtboxes for the overdrive and I like a good pedal platform that is a great foundation that is pure and not too grungy or dark. I like a lot of high end in my sound - as I tend to bridge country and classic rock playing together. This amp sounds very cool. The only amp I use cranked up and gainy on it's own is my old Tweed 5E3 Deluxe which I use for recording and jamming only. I love the tone of British and Tweed amps but I like the versatility of gain pedals and Blackface cleans. I was wondering how this amp sounds as a clean platform. The 50 watter would probably be better for that, but I'm guessing here. I love DG's tone but we are very different when it comes to a guitar sound. Yet I find myself liking the cleans of this amp from what I've heard.

I haven't had a chance to try out one but hopefully in the next couple years I can check one out. Maybe the next PRS Experience.

Glad you found the info useful! Like you, my tone and style are very different from DG's. And from the late 60s until well into the 80s I was using old Blackface amps that were my standards. So I'll share a few thoughts:

I'm learning more about the amp as I go. The amp is definitely "rounder" than a BF Fender. One of the neat things about the BF amps is that they have a very characteristic tone presentation without a ton of midrange. This amp has definitely got more of a midrange emphasis. On the other hand, that lends itself to a creamier quality. So it's a very different kind of clean than a BF Fender. The one I have (and this could be in part the NOS Brimar tubes) breaks up first at the very top end while the upper midrange remains creamy and solid. It's an interesting thing.

It's also a very percussive amp with a lot of lower mid and mid snap that's different from the BF snap (that to my ears is concentrated more on the top end).

I think I'd just call this amp creamy-sounding, where I'd call a Fender BF more chewy-sounding, if that makes sense?

It's a nice pedal platform, too.

 

[prsrocker1988]

Thanks for the info!

It sounds like it'd be a bit different than what I have and am used to, which may not be a bad thing.

 

[László]

Thanks for the info!

It sounds like it'd be a bit different than what I have and am used to, which may not be a bad thing.

Yeah, it's very different for me, too. The only thing I've owned that I can remotely compare it to is a Mesa Blue Angel, and that comparison is "ballpark" at best. But it, too was a percussive sounding amp with a lot of midrange roundness. However, the DG30 is louder, more dynamic, quieter, and there are a host of other differences. The DG30 is far more successful as an amp that you can record or gig with. I found the Blue Angel far less "real world" useful. It was a cool idea to be able to go between the EL84s and the 6V6 tubes, or combine them, but so what if the tone isn't killer?

Whereas the DG30 has some killer tone. Whether it's for anyone else, I can't say, but it sure is an interesting amp.

One thing of note -- the goods in this amp are found when the volume/gain reaches about 1 o'clock, and the master is at least at 1 o'clock or more.

So...it's LOUD. Yessir. Not for the faint of heart!!

 

[Boogie]

WHAT??!! :biggrin:

I'm familiar with the concept of a (deaf) "man's amp".

 

[andy474x]

One thing of note -- the goods in this amp are found when the volume/gain reaches about 1 o'clock, and the master is at least at 1 o'clock or more.

So...it's LOUD. Yessir. Not for the faint of heart!!

So Les, being our wise studio sage, I've always wondered, do tube amps actually put out a different sound at louder volumes, or is it just our perception of the sound that changes?

Obviously, getting into power tube breakup, the actual sound changes, but say for sake of argument that we're talking about two very different volumes but no power section breakup.

 

[László]

So Les, being our wise studio sage, I've always wondered, do tube amps actually put out a different sound at louder volumes, or is it just our perception of the sound that changes?

Obviously, getting into power tube breakup, the actual sound changes, but say for sake of argument that we're talking about two very different volumes but no power section breakup.

Well, remember, the speakers also break up. As the volume increases, speaker distortion increases, too. So that affects what we hear even with a megawatt solid state amp. Crank an AC30 with Celestion Blues and you have a very different amp than a cranked AC30 with, say, Greenbacks. The speakers are distorting differently.

I believe that the output transformers also begin to operate differently at the extremes of their design parameters.

But there's no question in my mind that our perception also changes. Our brains were developed to release adrenaline and other "fight or flight" hormones when things got loud, which for most of the past two million years meant things like very large animals, earthquakes, and other natural disasters. The release of these hormones does change how the brain interprets sound, I am convinced.

It's why we get excited cranking up the music in the car when a great song comes on.

On top of everything else, the microphones and electronics handle loud volumes differently. The electronics saturate and can distort, depending on the nature of the circuit that will affect the sound; also, the microphone's diaphragm begins to operate at its limits and the sound becomes less linear and more compressed. This happens even when the mic isn't outright crapping out with distortion artifacts, simply because the ability of the diaphragm to move and create an electrical voltage reaches its limit.

 

[László]

On another front, I can now report safely that the DG30 is phenomenal with the 408s, especially with the coil splits.

OMG. YMMV. But OMG.

 

[Egads]

Cool, Les. Now, let's see the guitar!

 

[László]

I wanted to post again about this DG30.

I originally got it to have an alternate amp to the HXDA, and something to layer in tracks when I also cut tracks with the HXDA, but it's actually become the HXDA's equal in many ways.

I'll always use the two amps for different things, of course, but the more I play this amp, the more I think it's good at. This is a wonderful piece of equipment, and I really am digging it!

 

[Boogie]

.I listened again to my track today, and I think I set the amp way too bright, and should have set the gain lower and the master higher. I'm hearing too much preamp tube distortion and not enough stuff from the power tubes.

How do you normally handle this phenomena? To me it seems like the gain is always too high and bright out of the gate, requiring multi-mic'ing to bring the room into the mix. Do you pre-compensate at the amp, adjust in post production, or elsewhere? Especially if you're trying to capture "the moment" with the right sustain, things just come out too raspy.

 

[László]

How do you normally handle this phenomena? To me it seems like the gain is always too high and bright out of the gate, requiring multi-mic'ing to bring the room into the mix. Do you pre-compensate at the amp, adjust in post production, or elsewhere? Especially if you're trying to capture "the moment" with the right sustain, things just come out too raspy.

Usually I just recut the track with different settings. I rarely have a magical moment on the guitar. LOL

Most of my guitars are tracked with a Royer 121 these days, and since it's a figure 8 mic, it's automatically bringing in some room sound. However, I don't like to use separate room mics on guitar even if I'm recording with a different mic, like a 57.

There are some great sounding reverbs I can use if I feel I need a room, but with guitar I find a drier sound fits much better into a mix. Even if I cut a live band, I don't use room mics on guitar.

Come to think of it, I don't use room mics on a drum kit, either. I've cut room mic tracks, and have always dispensed with them in about ten seconds. All they do is diffuse the immediacy of a close-miked kit and make everything sound mushy. There's a reason people close-mic things, and I stick with that. YMMV

 

[sergiodeblanc]

Come to think of it, I don't use room mics on a drum kit, either. I've cut room mic tracks, and have always dispensed with them in about ten seconds. All they do is diffuse the immediacy of a close-miked kit and make everything sound mushy. There's a reason people close-mic things, and I stick with that. YMMV

Crazy talk.

 

[Bluesboy998]

Les you still didn't get a handle I would call prs and complain how are you going to carry it around.

 

[László]

Crazy talk.

What else would you expect from me

Les you still didn't get a handle I would call prs and complain how are you going to carry it around.

Wait, you don't have people who carry stuff around for you?



* I just laughed when he said that (I'm his typist). *

** I laughed, too (I read internet forum posts to him in Swedish) .**

*** I didn't think it was that funny (he doesn't speak Swedish actually, so I translate and put it into the form of comic books that he likes). ***

**** Well, I thought it was clever enough (I read the comic book dialog bubbles out loud to him and show him the pictures). ****

***** I didn't laugh but I'll have the last laugh tonight (he hires me to have sex with his wife). *****

****** I read those comic books while I'm on the can, they're clever (I don't want to tell you what I do for him because it's too personal). ******

******* I must take credit for this (I tell him what to say). *******

******** Well none of you are as important as I am, I tell him what to think (I'm his mother). **********

********* Oh really,? Well, without me you'd all be nothing (I'm God)! *************

********** Get with the program, God, I'm far more important than you are (I'm a federal judge) .**************

 

[László]

So...

For the last week or so I've been working on a project using the HXDA, and today I took a break and hooked up the DG30.

It's interesting to be as into the HXDA as I am, and yet really enjoy the DG30's truly different tones so much!