AMP GAS - It Is After Me!

[Bogner]

On Mojotone the smooth old-Mesa style tolex is a buck cheaper by the yard than most of the pebbly stuff. So it's probably not a matter of cheaping out. I see there's no uncharge by Mesa if you order an amp covered in the smooth stuff in black.

But -just goes to show ya how different everyone is. I've never liked the old-Mesa smooth tolex, so I think the pebbly stuff is an improvement!

The Pebbly Stuff Definitely Looks Cheaper And Out Of Place On A Dal Rec. Since When Has Gibson Ever Changed Anything That Wasn't Financially Advantageous To Them?

 

[László]

The Pebbly Stuff Definitely Looks Cheaper And Out Of Place On A Dal Rec. Since When Has Gibson Ever Changed Anything That Wasn't Financially Advantageous To Them?

As I said, you can order one with the smoother tolex for no up-charge. My dealer just got some Mark VIIs covered in the smooth stuff.

But the pebbly stuff costs as much or more.

Maybe it isn't about the money. Maybe they found that the pebbly stuff saves them ten seconds when it's applied to the wood cabinets or something similar. Could be that they wanted to distinguish the Gibson stuff from the Randy Smith era stuff. Goodness knows.

It's not like Gibson hasn't ruined every other brand they've laid their hands on. I don't expect miracles in the case of Mesa. My feeling is that if you like Mesa gear, get it now, while Randy Smith is/was still around to design it, because when he leaves, I don't expect much. I have no idea who would design future products. Smith is one of a kind.

In any case, my new 4x10 Mesa cab has the pebbly stuff. I like it, though for several years my Mesa heads and combos have been leather covered instead of vinyl. If the option's available, I'm their huckleberry.

 

[Bogner]

As I said, you can order one with the smoother tolex for no up-charge. My dealer just got some Mark VIIs covered in the smooth stuff.

But the pebbly stuff costs as much or more.

Maybe it isn't about the money. Maybe they found that the pebbly stuff saves them ten seconds when it's applied to the wood cabinets or something similar. Could be that they wanted to distinguish the Gibson stuff from the Randy Smith era stuff. Goodness knows.

It's not like Gibson hasn't ruined every other brand they've laid their hands on. I don't expect miracles in the case of Mesa. My feeling is that if you like Mesa gear, get it now, while Randy Smith is/was still around to design it, because when he leaves, I don't expect much. I have no idea who would design future products. Smith is one of a kind.

In any case, my new 4x10 Mesa cab has the pebbly stuff. I like it, though for several years my Mesa heads and combos have been leather covered instead of vinyl. If the option's available, I'm their huckleberry.

Regarding The Tolex Cost, Who Is To Say They Didn't Raise The Price On The Pebbly Stuff?

Regarding My 2 Recent New Mesa Cabs (4x12) They Were Covered In The Smooth Stuff.

One Would Think That If They Were Changing Things There Would Be An Announcement Stating Such. Ultimately It Is About Sound And Not Tolex Type...I Am Just Surprised They Would Make A Change To Such An Iconic Amps Cosmetics.

 

[Simon Says]

As I said, you can order one with the smoother tolex for no up-charge. My dealer just got some Mark VIIs covered in the smooth stuff.

But the pebbly stuff costs as much or more.

Maybe it isn't about the money. Maybe they found that the pebbly stuff saves them ten seconds when it's applied to the wood cabinets or something similar. Could be that they wanted to distinguish the Gibson stuff from the Randy Smith era stuff. Goodness knows.

It's not like Gibson hasn't ruined every other brand they've laid their hands on. I don't expect miracles in the case of Mesa. My feeling is that if you like Mesa gear, get it now, while Randy Smith is/was still around to design it, because when he leaves, I don't expect much. I have no idea who would design future products. Smith is one of a kind.

In any case, my new 4x10 Mesa cab has the pebbly stuff. I like it, though for several years my Mesa heads and combos have been leather covered instead of vinyl. If the option's available, I'm their huckleberry.

Mesa/Boogie's Randal Smith has its place in the Hall of Fame of guitar amplifiers. There's Fender, Marshall and Mesa/Boogie, three strong DNAs. I always had a sweet tooth for the Mesa/Boogie amps; I have a photo of me rocking a blue Custom 22 and a Rev C black panel Dual Recto somewhere with only Morley wah between these two. Popular belief is that Smith copied the SLO100 for his Dual design, but I saw the interview with Mike Soldano, who said it was the Boogie Mark which inspired him to do the Super Lead Overdrive in the first place. I will forever cherish Boogies, it broke my heart when they got sold to Gibson

 

[László]

Mesa/Boogie's Randal Smith has its place in the Hall of Fame of guitar amplifiers. There's Fender, Marshall and Mesa/Boogie, three strong DNAs. I always had a sweet tooth for the Mesa/Boogie amps; I have a photo of me rocking a blue Custom 22 and a Rev C black panel Dual Recto somewhere with only Morley wah between these two. Popular belief is that Smith copied the SLO100 for his Dual design, but I saw the interview with Mike Soldano, who said it was the Boogie Mark which inspired him to do the Super Lead Overdrive in the first place. I will forever cherish Boogies, it broke my heart when they got sold to Gibson

Vox has a strong lineage, too. Nonetheless, Mesa deserves a place in the pantheon.. Smith's designs have been hugely significant, not the least because they've been available to so many players (unlike custom builders like Dumble or Trainwreck).

Ultimately It Is About Sound And Not Tolex Type...I Am Just Surprised They Would Make A Change To Such An Iconic Amps Cosmetics.

Goodness knows I don't want to defend Gibson. Mesa hasn't always used the black smooth stuff on stock models. Lots of models, including early ones, looked quite different.

All the Mark I amps I've seen have been in the cream colored pebbly stuff. So there's your baseline model that put the brand on the map, though the truly iconic look was that amp with a wooden cabinet and wicker grille. Same with subsequent Marks, it's always been the wood and wicker look in their ads and lots of people love it. Haven't seen anyone complain.

The stock Maverick I owned in the early '00s came in the pebbly tan stuff. The Lone Star and Lone Star Special came with pebbly tolex, and an overall design that was definitely, um, 'inspired by' Matchless.

The Fillmore has always come stock with the pebbly stuff and a Fender look. The California Tweed has been cream colored pebbly stuff, with the Matchless look.

The Tremoverb was introduced in the early '90s with standard black real leather, and I had one. My Blue Angel head and cab came stock in blue tolex.

Depending on the model, the Trans-Atlantic was pebbly black stuff, smooth stuff or the little one with the metal top. Different models have come with different types of face plates, control knobs, what-have-you. Fact is, they've all looked different from each other in significant ways.

In any case, it's not that big a deal. The big deal is that Randall Smith isn't immortal, and at some point he wouldn't be designing amps any more anyhow due to age.

Without him, Mesa is just a brand name. Gibson will recycle existing products, and any innovation will be a thing of the past.

However, I do think it's very likely that Gibson will mismanage Mesa, build products offshore (something that bugs me that PRS has done with some models, not to mention the entire SE line), and do other nasty things. Hell, they even ruined the Mesa website.

I get that business exists to make a profit, and they do what they have to do. It just pisses me off for reasons that probably aren't quite rational.

 

[Bogner]

Mesa hasn't always used the black smooth stuff on stock models. Lots of models, including early ones, looked quite different.

My Point In All Of This Was Always Dual Rectifier Specific.

 

[Bogner]

I Just Got Word That The "New" Standard Tolex For Mesa Is The Grainy Stuff Going Forward.

 

[László]

My Point In All Of This Was Always Dual Rectifier Specific.

Well, that's different, as it can require patience to get a special order, though my new cab came in two months, which wasn't too bad.

Here's a question:

My Tremoverb (which did say Dual Rectifier on the front panel, if that matters) had chassis-mounted preamp tubes and power amp tubes, and they made a point of talking about their chassis-mount ceramic tube sockets as evidence of build quality. Other Mesas I had in the '90s, same deal.

Are they still making the Dual Rec that way, or did that go the way of the dodo at Mesa? If so, do you know when?

Mesa switched to circuit board-mounted preamp tubes with plastic sockets at some point in most models, probably to save a buck or two. I recall being disappointed when I noticed that on some of the Mesas I've owned over the years. If memory serves, even my top-of-line Mark V had circuit board mounted preamp tubes.

The Mark VII is now going for what, $3700? Seems too high for what you get. Yeah, lots of bells and whistles, but I always figure I want ultimate quality for that kinda dough.

You can get one of Suhr's handwired models for more than a thousand dollars less, and they're fantastic amps. Not only hand-wired but all tubes are chassis mounted. Same is true of plenty of other amps that are in the price ballpark of Mesa amps, including Two-Rock's studio series amps.

The PRS CAD amps are all chassis mounts, including preamp tubes.

Maybe Mesa found that the circuit board mounts were just as good, or maybe it was to cut corners on cost.

In any case, Mesas still sound great. My son did shows in London and Leeds with The Academy Is over the weekend, and they took the Lone Stars they've toured with since the model came out. That's been quite some time, and they've held up with only routine maintenance.

So apparently the circuit board mounting is robust enough for that. I probably worry about nothing, but I'm that guy. Anyway, I'm a lot more concerned about build quality than what the amps are covered with, and I suspect you are, too.

 

[Bogner]

I'm a lot more concerned about build quality than what the amps are covered with, and I suspect you are, too.

Of Course! However My Rant Was On The Tolex

Don't Get Me Started On Parts And Builds...LOL.

Like You, I Enjoy The Sound Of A Lot Of Mesa Amps And Am Fully Confident GIbson Will Find A Way To Ruin The Company In No Time.

 

[Simon Says]

You, I Enjoy The Sound Of A Lot Of Mesa Amps And Am Fully Confident GIbson Will Find A Way To Ruin The Company In No Time.

Thats a bit harsh, it took them whole long 4 years to trash Trace Elliot

 

[Bogner]

Thats a bit harsh, it took them whole long 4 years to trash Trace Elliot

I Figured With Their Experience They Could Easily Shorten The Time...LOL

 

[Simon Says]

My Tremoverb (which did say Dual Rectifier on the front panel, if that matters)

Trem-o-verb is yet another Mesa amp I drool on. The amp of choice for Mike Einziger and Kim Thayil. This amp is all over R.E.M's Monster; very underrated, yet my favourite R.E.M album. This amp needs no more recommendations, yet I never played one

 

[László]

Thats a bit harsh, it took them whole long 4 years to trash Trace Elliot

I Figured With Their Experience They Could Easily Shorten The Time...LOL

Yeah, you're both right.

Off the top of my head, here are a few companies they've managed to destroy or cheapen beyond recognition:

Oberheim synths (the original company), Baldwin pianos, Opcode, TEAC, Cakewalk, Onkyo, Royal Phillips, Slingerland (since reborn by another company that bought the name), Flatiron mandolins...

I'm sure there are many others. I don't know how KRK is doing under their ownership.

 

[Bogner]

Trem-o-verb is yet another Mesa amp I drool on. The amp of choice for Mike Einziger and Kim Thayil. This amp is all over R.E.M's Monster; very underrated, yet my favourite R.E.M album. This amp needs no more recommendations, yet I never played one

Some Say The Tremoverb Is The Best Recto Out There...Depending On Which Way The Wind Is Blowing I Could Often Agree.

 

[László]

Trem-o-verb is yet another Mesa amp I drool on. The amp of choice for Mike Einziger and Kim Thayil. This amp is all over R.E.M's Monster; very underrated, yet my favourite R.E.M album. This amp needs no more recommendations, yet I never played one

It was my #1 studio amp for ten years, during a time that I was very busy with ad tracks that demanded rock and roll.

After that (ad world had bought into techno music mainly), my son was in high school and was a damn fine guitar player, and asked if he could use it with his band, so I gave it to him. I already had a Two-Rock and felt I was good to go. My son decided he wanted a Stiletto and traded it in.

It's still one of my two favorite Mesas, the Fillmore being the other one. Most of my Two-Rocks were Onyx variants, a two channel amp unlike the ones TR is known best for. It was nearly as versatile as the Tremoverb, but had a different sound. I loved that model, but TR discontinued it when I was between amps, so I got one of the more traditional TRs, and didn't love it as much, though it was indeed very nice in full Dumble mode.

I would however like to put in a plug for the Maverick, my #3 Mesa pick. #4 is the Lone Star sitting in my studio, only because I'm not into the dirty channel for some reason. The Fillmore kills it six ways to Sunday, as far as I'm concerned, except in clean headroom, as one would expect with a 100 Watt amp.

 

[GGJJGG]

It was my #1 studio amp for ten years, during a time that I was very busy with ad tracks that demanded rock and roll.

After that (ad world had bought into techno music mainly), my son was in high school and was a damn fine guitar player, and asked if he could use it with his band, so I gave it to him. I already had a Two-Rock and felt I was good to go. My son decided he wanted a Stiletto and traded it in.

It's still one of my two favorite Mesas, the Fillmore being the other one. Most of my Two-Rocks were Onyx variants, a two channel amp unlike the ones TR is known best for. It was nearly as versatile as the Tremoverb, but had a different sound. I loved that model, but TR discontinued it when I was between amps, so I got one of the more traditional TRs, and didn't love it as much, though it was indeed very nice in full Dumble mode.

I would however like to put in a plug for the Maverick, my #3 Mesa pick. #4 is the Lone Star sitting in my studio, only because I'm not into the dirty channel for some reason. The Fillmore kills it six ways to Sunday, as far as I'm concerned, except in clean headroom, as one would expect with a 100 Watt amp.

Are the dumble-ish amps (TR, Fuchs, Amplified Nation, etc) difficult to dial in with all the options? My Divided by 13 has two tone knobs, a reverb and one volume. I have to admit the simplicity is a definite plus.

 

[Wyzard]

I'll have a go at answering this from my perspective. Les will doubtless offer greater wisdom on the subject, but anyhoo:

As a former mostly-Boogie player (MkIIA, IIB and IIC+, various MkIIIs, and MkIV) it took me several years to get my head around the Two Rocks I picked up in 2004-2005 (CRS V1 and K&M LTD).

I kept the Boogies, but have played the Two Rocks more than 65 percent of the time since then. I could feel the potential in the Two Rock amps when I first played them in 2004, but my playing needed to evolve, along with my understanding of how gain and EQ work together in this type of amp.

Mind you, learning how to get gain and EQ to play nicely together in Boogies is a life-long evolutionary process too IME; I'm still learning to adjust tones on the fly with both amp types some twenty-odd years later, without screwing up the balance.......


If you can get comfortable messing with MkII settings (of any iteration) on the fly, especially in a live context, then you've done a lot of the heavy lifting for ODS-type amps already, I'd say. They're not the same, but the granular tone/gain understanding of one seems to play into an appreciation of the other. I also picked up a lot of tips from Steve Kimock's musings on the subject over the years on TGP, which helped enormously.

So while I don't make any secret of my feelings for that place, I owe it for what I learned from Kimock: "il miglior fabbro."


Several years ago, I picked up a PBG-era Akoya, and it's an easier ride as far as getting (and keeping) great tones - it's several degrees less finicky/adjustment-sensitive than the more overtly D-style offerings in the TR back catalog.

 

[László]

Are the dumble-ish amps (TR, Fuchs, Amplified Nation, etc) difficult to dial in with all the options? My Divided by 13 has two tone knobs, a reverb and one volume. I have to admit the simplicity is a definite plus.

I didn't find the Two-Rocks difficult to dial in, the controls seem to do what one would expect. But there are those who have difficulty dialing in Mesas, and I find that's pretty simple, too.

However, as a synthesist and studio person for 33 years, I'm used to dialing in more types of gear than many guitar players. So YMMV.

However, my theory (this might apply only to me) is that if I like the basic tone of an amp, I'll find it easy to dial in, and if the basic tone isn't quite satisfying in most settings, I can never dial it in. I guess I can tweak good sounding amps and improve or further customize the sound reaching my ears, but never am able to 'reinvent' an amp that lacks the foundation tone I want merely using the controls.

One thing I do with new amps is take all the preamp stage tone controls down to zero, and bring them up one at a time so I can hear the frequencies they affect. Once I get that straight, I'll mess with presence and reverb. If the amp has more than one channel or mode I'll try them all using the same process.

For whatever reason, it seems to help achieve a more intuitive understanding of what's doing what, and I can dial an amp in more easily. I only have to isolate each control once to get a handle on things.

So yeah, a bit more complicated than a two knob amp, BUT I also LOVE plenty of amps with fewer controls, like the Tweed Deluxe, etc., for what they do, too. I'm pretty easy to please when it comes to features; if an amp sounds good, I'm game.

Divided by 13 amps are pretty darn nice, too.

 

[Bogner]

Sweeping The Controls All The Way Right And Left Is The Only Way To Really Get An Understanding Of What Each Control Does Sonically. A Lot Of Controls Interact With Other Controls. Adjust With Your Ears, Not Your Eyes.

 

[Simon Says]

Yeah. Dialling Mesa/Boogie with all controls at noon is a common misconception. Seeing each of the TMB controls as volumes for each frequency respectively will take you there quicker