594 tuning as stable as 24?

[Mr bean]

Hello there.

I’m new here and I need to ask a question straight away.
I have three CU 24’s and they are incredibly accurate and stable as far as tuning goes.

I love the scale of Gibson but hate the instability.
Is the 594 as stable as the 24?

I’m thinking of getting a 594 with P90’s.

Cheers and thanks for having me.

 

[Birdsofprey]

Sorry I don’t have an answer for ya as I only have CU-24’s and I’ll agree what a great guitar all around. great question to ask as I’d like to also hear the replies. Welcome to a great forum.

 

[Mr bean]

Sorry I don’t have an answer for ya as I only have CU-24’s and I’ll agree what a great guitar all around. great question to ask as I’d like to also hear the replies. Welcome to a great forum.

I would also like a fatter neck so I’m hoping the 594 gives me that.

Always searching.

Cheers

 

[Mozzi]

Hello there.

I’m new here and I need to ask a question straight away.
I have three CU 24’s and they are incredibly accurate and stable as far as tuning goes.

I love the scale of Gibson but hate the instability.
Is the 594 as stable as the 24?

I’m thinking of getting a 594 with P90’s.

Cheers and thanks for having me.

Gibson's stability issues are NOT related to scale length but the design of the Headstock and the way the nut is cut. Because Gibson's don't have a straight string pull through the nut, if the nut isn't perfectly cut to account for that, then there is more 'friction' between the string and nut which stops the string returning perfectly to pitch.

Tuning stability is most commonly related to the Nut and how its 'cut' for the String and its specific gauge. A perfect cut nut, especially if it naturally 'lubricated' too, is incredibly unlikely to cause stability issues - even in a Gibson Les Paul. However, you may need to lubricate your nut to ensure the string can move freely and most importantly, return to pitch.

PRS designed their headstock to have Straight string pull, thus significantly reducing the chances of friction impacting tuning stability. It can still happen if your nut isn't cut properly - especially for your string gauge, but it's a LOT less likely you'll have tuning stability issues on a 594 than a LP.

 

[Mr bean]

Gibson's stability issues are NOT related to scale length but the design of the Headstock and the way the nut is cut. Because Gibson's don't have a straight string pull through the nut, if the nut isn't perfectly cut to account for that, then there is more 'friction' between the string and nut which stops the string returning perfectly to pitch.

Tuning stability is most commonly related to the Nut and how its 'cut' for the String and its specific gauge. A perfect cut nut, especially if it naturally 'lubricated' too, is incredibly unlikely to cause stability issues - even in a Gibson Les Paul. However, you may need to lubricate your nut to ensure the string can move freely and most importantly, return to pitch.

PRS designed their headstock to have Straight string pull, thus significantly reducing the chances of friction impacting tuning stability. It can still happen if your nut isn't cut properly - especially for your string gauge, but it's a LOT less likely you'll have tuning stability issues on a 594 than a LP.

That’s exactly what I’m hoping is the case.

If the 594 nut comes cut for Ten’s, I could live with that but I prefer 9 or 9.5.

 

[Mozzi]

That’s exactly what I’m hoping is the case.

If the 594 nut comes cut for Ten’s, I could live with that but I prefer 9 or 9.5.

Going down a gauge is less likely to cause any issues with the way the nut was cut as it's only slightly 'smaller' in diameter, so not going to 'catch' or increase the friction at the nut to cause Tuning issues, if you were going up in gauges, you may need to widen the slots a 'bit' to prevent increased friction affecting tuning, but a gauge either way is 'generally' OK

 

[Mr bean]

Going down a gauge is less likely to cause any issues with the way the nut was cut as it's only slightly 'smaller' in diameter, so not going to 'catch' or increase the friction at the nut to cause Tuning issues, if you were going up in gauges, you may need to widen the slots a 'bit' to prevent increased friction affecting tuning, but a gauge either way is 'generally' OK

That makes sense.

What really clouded the issue for me was that I bought a Heritage LP and had similar issues with tuning.
Luckily I was able to return that guitar.

So now I’m thinking ‘Screw That’, get a shorter scale, 22 fret PRS.
That will fix my problem.

 

[Mozzi]

That makes sense.

What really clouded the issue for me was that I bought a Heritage LP and had similar issues with tuning.
Luckily I was able to return that guitar.

So now I’m thinking ‘Screw That’, get a shorter scale, 22 fret PRS.
That will fix my problem.

Well I have two 594's (Solid and Hollowbody Double Cuts) and both are 'solid' as far as tuning stability is concerned from my own personal experience. If you are 'concerned' with any guitar, you can always buy something to Lubricate the nut (Big Bends Nut Sauce for example) - or even use a 'pencil' as the Graphite will also act as Lubrication - or get a self lubricating nut (they aren't expensive), some Nut files to make sure the slots are 'perfect', not catching on edges or binding/pinching the string so it returns to pitch or take it to a Luthier if you aren't confident in your own ability to resolve the issue.

Anyway, the point I was trying to make is that the vast majority of 'tuning' stability issues are caused by the nut. Its rarely the tuners if they are 'decent' and tight - locking tuners for example primary advantage is quicker string changes and ONLY improve tuning stability if you don't know how to wrap strings properly so the string can 'move' and therefore affect tuning. It only takes a 'tiny' bit of movement or to 'stick/bind' a fraction out and you are out of tune.

You can often fix a Gibson tuning stability with a nut file to round off the edges of the backside of the nut - the point of 'greatest' friction as the string 'bends' towards the tuners - something 'straight' string pull fixes. Its the way the nut slot is cut, the angle, the edges etc of a Gibson (or any guitar without straight string pull) that will determine if your Guitar will have tuning issues.

 

[Mr bean]

I was able to fix the tuning issues on one LP using the String Buttler but my other LP cannot accommodate a Buttler without swapping out two tuning keys so…I’m not doing that because the instability is not significant enough to warrant taking that step imo.

Edit: Maybe I’ll bring it back to our guitar tech.

Thanks

 

[JC_Broussard]

Hello there.

I’m new here and I need to ask a question straight away.
I have three CU 24’s and they are incredibly accurate and stable as far as tuning goes.

I love the scale of Gibson but hate the instability.
Is the 594 as stable as the 24?

I’m thinking of getting a 594 with P90’s.

Cheers and thanks for having me.

My 594 stays in tune better than any guitar I've ever had. I do not baby this thing. It didn't come with their locking tuners, just the vintage style, but don't have any fear of tuning stability.

 

[Mozzi]

I was able to fix the tuning issues on one LP using the String Buttler but my other LP cannot accommodate a Buttler without swapping out two tuning keys so…I’m not doing that because the instability is not significant enough to warrant taking that step imo.

Edit: Maybe I’ll bring it back to our guitar tech.

Thanks

A String Butler 'fixes' the stability as it forces the strings to be 'straight' through the Nut slots so reducing any chance of friction or binding affecting the tuning Stability. If it 'solved' your problem on one LP, that is indicative of the Nut not being slotted properly for that 'specific' guitar.

With the other, you could use a nut file to round of the back edge of the slot towards the direction of the tuner. That back edge and string bend towards the tuners is where the Friction is the greatest and by smoothing/rounding that back edge, you greatly reduce friction and that should be enough to help the string return perfectly to pitch

 

[Mr bean]

No locking tuners?
That’s a good point because I didn’t know 594’s came without them.
I like to be able to change strings in 5 minutes so that’s a big deal for me.
Great info.
Thanks

 

[Mr bean]

A String Butler 'fixes' the stability as it forces the strings to be 'straight' through the Nut slots so reducing any chance of friction or binding affecting the tuning Stability. If it 'solved' your problem on one LP, that is indicative of the Nut not being slotted properly for that 'specific' guitar.

With the other, you could use a nut file to round of the back edge of the slot towards the direction of the tuner. That back edge and string bend towards the tuners is where the Friction is the greatest and by smoothing/rounding that back edge, you greatly reduce friction and that should be enough to help the string return perfectly to pitch

Thanks for this.

 

[Mozzi]

No locking tuners?
That’s a good point because I didn’t know 594’s came without them.
I like to be able to change strings in 5 minutes so that’s a big deal for me.
Great info.
Thanks

Depends on the 594 you get. from 2016, when they introduced the 594, up to the end of 2019, they came with Phase 3 locking tuners as Standard - both my 594's have Locking tuners. My 594 HBii is right on the edge of the 'change' to TCI processed Pups, Nitro over CAB finish and the switch to Vintage tuners introduced in 2020 so I got 2 out of these 3 changes and still managed to get Locking tuners as standard.

Therefore, if you intend to buy 'new', or even a more recent 'used' 594, unless modded, its going to come with Vintage style tuners but older 'used' may have locking tuners. I don't think they have ever offered locking tuners as standard below 'Core' either so it does depend on the 594.

As I said, locking or non-locking tuners don't affect tuning stability. If wound properly, there is no string movement, no slippage etc so the String should remain in pitch regardless of whether its 'locked' by a screw or by the winding. If its decent, the tuner itself won't slip or move either so again the tuning won't be affected.

They do offer drop-in 'locking' versions too so if its 'important' to you to change strings quicker, then you can upgrade easily enough...

 

[garrett]

Mozzi wins the forum today. Hit after hit in this thread.

 

[Mr bean]

Depends on the 594 you get. from 2016, when they introduced the 594, up to the end of 2019, they came with Phase 3 locking tuners as Standard - both my 594's have Locking tuners. My 594 HBii is right on the edge of the 'change' to TCI processed Pups, Nitro over CAB finish and the switch to Vintage tuners introduced in 2020 so I got 2 out of these 3 changes and still managed to get Locking tuners as standard.

Therefore, if you intend to buy 'new', or even a more recent 'used' 594, unless modded, its going to come with Vintage style tuners but older 'used' may have locking tuners. I don't think they have ever offered locking tuners as standard below 'Core' either so it does depend on the 594.

As I said, locking or non-locking tuners don't affect tuning stability. If wound properly, there is no string movement, no slippage etc so the String should remain in pitch regardless of whether its 'locked' by a screw or by the winding. If its decent, the tuner itself won't slip or move either so again the tuning won't be affected.

They do offer drop-in 'locking' versions too so if its 'important' to you to change strings quicker, then you can upgrade easily enough...

The 594 I’m considering has phase 3 locking tuners, updated bridge (I don’t know what this is) and P90’s.

It would be the first guitar I’ve owned with P90’s.

 

[JasonE]

I can only speak for the core level guitars because that is what I own. The 594 is very solid, as solid as any other core guitar is. I have an early one with the locking tuners on it. You can buy replacement tuners that will drop right in for a newer model to get the locking tuners on it. If you know how to string the non-locking tuners you won't have any tuning issues from them. I understand liking the lockers though. I am the same way. Most of my PRS guitars have the locking tuners on them. I do have a couple that do not and don't have any issues with them. I can honestly restring them just about as fast as the locking tuner models.

FYI, you can make a Les Paul stay in tune. I have two of them and a Heritage H157 and don't have any tuning issues with any of them. I have been working on guitars for a good while and know how to address the issues so they are no longer an issue.

 

[Mr bean]

I can only speak for the core level guitars because that is what I own. The 594 is very solid, as solid as any other core guitar is. I have an early one with the locking tuners on it. You can buy replacement tuners that will drop right in for a newer model to get the locking tuners on it. If you know how to string the non-locking tuners you won't have any tuning issues from them. I understand liking the lockers though. I am the same way. Most of my PRS guitars have the locking tuners on them. I do have a couple that do not and don't have any issues with them. I can honestly restring them just about as fast as the locking tuner models.

FYI, you can make a Les Paul stay in tune. I have two of them and a Heritage H157 and don't have any tuning issues with any of them. I have been working on guitars for a good while and know how to address the issues so they are no longer an issue.

I wish I could say the same because the Heritage had a really nice neck.

Edit: the P90 594 is a core.

 

[GADonis]

I've never had any tuning issues with my 594. I would like to get a 594 with P90s. Preferably in a single cut with a gold top. There don't seem to be any out there for sale. Oh well, just saving me the money.

 

[JasonE]

I wish I could say the same because the Heritage had a really nice neck.

If you find a guitar that you really like the look, feel and sound of, it is worth putting the time into it to get the tuning solid if it has issues. Most of these are nut issues as mentioned earlier. The Heritage has a bit straighter string pull than a Gibson does. That makes it a little easier to fix any nut issues. I know that many guitarists have to get someone to fix it for them and that can be very frustrating if you can't find someone that is good at it. Thankfully I had someone teach me the basics of working on a guitar when I was about 12 when my dad bought me my very first brand new guitar, a LP copy. That was possibly the most important guitar related lesson I have ever had. It has saved me a ton of money and frustration. I have done a bunch of free work for friends that have run their routes with frustration over the years.