Wildwood Guitars & PRS?

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" the politically correct " TALK, they do not LISTEN ... TALK is CHEAP... Hence no " American Made " P R S...

 

[László]

" the politically correct " TALK, they do not LISTEN ... TALK is CHEAP... Hence no " American Made " P R S...

Personally, I don't see many people listening in any part of the political spectrum. I see mostly shouting and crazy talk. You wanna listen or you wanna join the shouters making unwarranted assumptions and pointing fingers like everyone else?

The people with their fingers in their ears shouting at each other on political talk shows? The radio? I can't hear you, lalalalalalala?

Bullsh#t!

Any student of history knows, thus has it always been. Always, too many talkers, not many listeners. Always, too many people making assumptions about what the other guy thinks. Need proof?

All you have to do is look at the political climate in Andrew Jackson's day. Europe in the 1930s. America's hawks vs isolationists. Always. Lots of shouting. Lots of accusing. Lots of finger-pointing. Not much listening.

After the French Revolution, they'd listen to you, but only to your speech made on the platform of the guillotine. And let's not even talk about the Russian Revolution. And worse...we don't need that many examples of those who never listen, but I'll throw in the Inquisition just for fun.

Then again, read some Cicero, Livy and other Roman writers, or Greek writers in the classical period, and you'll find the same complaints. Because people, basically, are anuses when it comes to listening to each other.

I have no special love going with PC, but I'm probably closer to PC people than not.

However, I buy only American-made guitars, cars, and other consumer goods where I can find them. But for the most part, 'merica has sold out. Try and buy an American TV, for example. Or an American shirt. Or American underpants, shoes, tires, steel, spark plugs, light bulbs, or what have you. That doesn't make me special. I know plenty of people who do the same damn thing.

A few months ago I bought a new pair of boots from a famous old Michigan boot company, Wolverine. The sales person said, "These are Michigan products." Boy was I excited that they were still being made, and so cool, too! Sure, they were pricy, but I figured I was supporting 'Merica AND my home state.

Every time I wore them I was satisfied to know that.

Until I looked in the shoe because a rock had gotten stuck in it, and as I was examining it, I noticed a small stamp in a remote part of the shoe with words, "MADE IN CHINA."

The Bullsh#t is being pitched - and sold - left, center and right these days, I guess.

But if you only want to buy American, you've got a hell of a search on your hands.

Meantime I WILL continue to buy ONLY American guitars, American cars, and when possible, American consumer goods. Because I freaking have eyeballs and can see the effect on not only workers, but on the strength of the USA as a whole.

You couldn't pay me to buy an imported guitar, or an imported amp. I will never, ever buy anything made in the Behringer factory in China. Perfect place for a company that got its start ripping off Mackie and Boss to locate, in my opinion.

And to anyone who has several imported guitars, well, you could've had one great American guitar. :biggrin: Not a cheap shot, a fact.

By the way, my son in law who is of a generation more tolerant of PC is president of a company that makes furniture in Chicago, and even though they could make more money importing Chinese stuff, they don't. He also only will buy American when possible. So really, stop the finger pointing. There are true patriots at every point on the political spectrum. And people who support the economy of THIS country.

Seriously folks, cheap shots, and finger pointing are not the way this forum should operate.

 

[ViperDoc]

Rock on Doc! I knew I liked you. :congrats:

It would be a grand day if the "politically correct" Americans that are sooooo against Slave Labor, depressed wages, unfriendly eviornmentalists would prove it with their wallets roud:

Sending our money overseas is protecting non-American employment and not much else. This idea that it's better to own a LOT of cheap a$$ $hit rather than a sensible amount of high quality bada$$ gear is beneath even the novice musician. Imagine the diseased effect of learning to play music on an instrument that sounds bad. It's a guarantee that you'll never appreciate real tone. Real tone is a revelation in every sense. It is the sparkle of life. It penetrates and transcends the audio and emotional worlds into something that you never thought existed, where your mind, body and spirit LEARN, or even ASCEND. THAT is what real music is about. Trying to stir the ether with an unexpressive, dead-sounding clone is not worth the price of condemnation. Sell all that other $hit that you never use, save up and treat yourself to an American sonic artist's brush so you can see, hear and feel the American made magic that flows out of the Great Halls of Stevensville. Because that's just how this bada$$ $hit works. You will never regret it.

 

[sergiodeblanc]

Squirt.

This whole thead is filled with so much squirt.

 

[jfine]

I would really hate to see brick-and-mortar retail music stores to go away. There's nothing like getting your hands on an instrument to help you make an informed decision. The Guitar Center business model needs to change--if you're going to have 500 identical cr@ppy guitars with horrible setups and dead strings hanging on the wall, you might as well sell them online sight-unseen, but those of us who know what we need have to play the things before we can decide. And for kids and beginners who don't know--and we were all at that point once--how else are they going to learn? Some of these big companies have gotten too big to remember that they once needed small dealers. A friend of mine who has a small music store was one of the first Line 6 dealers, at a time when the big-box retailers wouldn't touch them, but after Line 6 got successful, they pulled their franchise because they could move more product through the big chains. What's the old saying? "Dance with the one who brung you!"

 

[Dusty Chalk]

Exactly what they are and have been thriving for many years even without the big names (other than Fender). I think Gibson did this on purpose to make things logistically easier for them. Less reps having to sell a few guitars a month (or a quarter) to the hundreds of M&P shops across the country. Instead, they sell basically in bulk to the GC chain, and a few others. The problem with this arrangement, IMO, will be what happens if GC goes under, what then? Sam Ash and Sweetwater will carry on I guess.

Whereas if PRS (or Gibson) sets up a central purchasing distribution they can control it all themselves. I see PRS doing this better than Gibson, but that stands without reason.

No, I meant from PRS' perspective -- ruling out selling through the mom&pop stores seems counter-productive. I realize the bulk of their sales are through the larger stores -- even non-chain stores like Chuck Levins/Washington Music Center here in the DC area I'm sure move a lot of product, but if I were any smaller, I'm not sure I could promise that (from the store's perspective).

I mean, the solution seems simple -- lose the quota -- but obviously some risk comes with that regarding returns and whatnot.

I don't know what the answer is.

 

[Whitecat]

Remember guys that not all of us are American! By your ethos, I SHOULDN'T be buying PRS guitars.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

What? No, that's not how that logic would work at all. You especially​ should buy American-made PRS guitars.

 

[CoreyT]

You couldn't pay me to buy an imported guitar, or an imported amp. I will never, ever buy anything made in the Behringer factory in China. Perfect place for a company that got its start ripping off Mackie and Boss to locate, in my opinion.

And to anyone who has several imported guitars, well, you could've had one great American guitar. :biggrin: Not a cheap shot, a fact.

Guilty as charged, I have bought seven PRS SE guitars.
Six for me, and one for my son who is learning guitar.
I could not justify dropping $3K on a core guitar for him to learn on.
And as far as my SEs, they will get passed on to him when I croak.
I only have one core guitar the 408.

So I guess there are a lot of us guilty on the forum here who own several SEs, and I bet it may be a higher percentage than core guitar owners.

 

[MotorPro]

Doc...I am a little confused...you say all imported guitars are crap and people who buy them are evil but you own 2 of them....are you planning to burn them?

 

[Drew]

ugh... the patriotic "buy American" stuff is not only insulting to our international community here but it represents folly in a lot of your trains of thought. I have a business degree and have a pretty good understanding of economic principles. I'm also a proud card carrying member of the United States of America. I support American manufacturing.....BUT...only to a point. There is a natural evolution to how an economy functions and grows. Very mature economies evolve to the point where we become more service based (banking, finance, insurance, trades, etc) versus manufacturing. Thats just the way it goes. I won't get into a long explanation. Simply put, imported manufactured products are a GOOD THING. A lot of you wouldn't be living in those nice houses or playing your core PRS guitars if we didn't import as much as we do.

 

[CVS]

Time to go play one of my guitars.

 

[dogrocketp]

The trick in any economic or political situation is balance. Yes, we need some imported goods, and we need American goods. I think that as a society, we are being manipulated out of buying what is best for us as a group and as individuals. The ethos that is being foisted on us is that cheaper is better in everything. The fewer people who buy quality, the more crap that will be produced here and abroad. If you can`t afford a core guitar, the standards and SE`s are better made than the vast majority of the competition. If you can pony up the dinero, the core guitars are amazing. My 30 year old son is member of a generation that disposes of everything. Don`t fix, replace. So cheaper becomes better. We have little political balance, we are losing societal balance, and most of the guitars being made are inferior. I can live with the first 2, but bad guitars? Paul talks about making guitars that you can pass on to the next generation. I don` t think I could do that with my Lesters or the Leos I`ve owned. They weren`t good enough, so I sold them. Not the case for my PRS, even the SE`s (which have been heavily modified with American parts!) They`re keepers. For everything in my life, the appreciation of quality lasts a helluva lot longer than the thrill of buying (which I never had anyway). If quality doesn`t exist, we can`t appreciate it, and won`t know it when we see it. USA goods used to stand for quality.Let`s hope we don`t lose all our manufacturing and quality.

 

[VirginiaAve]

I spoke to Wildwood a month or two back, and they in fact are no longer ordering new PRS guitars. It's a shame, they are a great dealer (used to be my local dealer).

 

[IRG]

Doc...I am a little confused...you say all imported guitars are crap and people who buy them are evil but you own 2 of them....are you planning to burn them?

I noticed that too, but refrained from my normal snarky comments I would post when someone tells someone else what they should do, and then does the opposite.

Oh wait, I seemed to have done it anyway.:laugh:

Truth is, and I think we all know it, PRS makes very good guitars at all levels, whether they are made in Korea and now Indonesia, or in the US. At the end of the day it is a business, and for larger businesses, the customer base is global, so it makes sense to hire workers globally at times as well. Just the way it is.

The most "American" made car today, is actually the Toyota Camry. I think its contents are close to 100% components made in the US, and they are made by US workers. But, and it's a big but, Toyota is obviously a Japanese company. GM on the other hand, is American, but has several models that have zero content coming from the US with no American workers. Brave new world, huh.

I think the point of my original statement, was having PRS sell directly might be beneficial for all, more US made guitars at better price points would entice more buyers, I think, by cutting out the middle man. Theoretically. Maybe they've done an analysis internally (I'd be surprised if they didn't) to see if this makes sense.

 

[WeFixFlats]

Just did an rough count of the PRSi listed online at Wildwood. I counted 19, including used? And that's compared to my local Austin PRS dealer who can't seem to sell any of theirs. And they have dozens of Brand New and NOS guitars hanging on the wall, including Private Stocks. But it's my theory that like an exotic car dealership, once the people who can afford one, buy one(or two), the market is saturated and repeat business, at least here in Austin, is over. And this doesn't count the ones on CL that have been listed for months that haven't sold. Just my casual observation from here.

 

[jimfisher]

Little different perspective on all this. Several months ago a friend and I took the factory tour at PRS. What was surprising was the stacks and stacks of SE boxes piled up everywhere. Each and every one is un-boxed and setup by a PRS employee who is there earning a living every day. I'm sure that many of you who were at the factory event last month saw this too! I really doubt that many other manufacturers that also have an imported line do this. Having an entry level product line is a great business strategy to develop a strong brand awareness and that encourages those customers to upgrade into Core products later on.

Another thought! PRS already has a large, world-wide customer base - their dealers. They are PRS's customers. They've figured out a way to sell their products, and make a profit, to their dealer base and then work to have the end consumers 'pull' product thru that pipeline. If selling direct to consumers pisses off 10% of their dealer base they would be in a world of hurt.

Jim

 

[IRG]

Just did an rough count of the PRSi listed online at Wildwood. I counted 19, including used? And that's compared to my local Austin PRS dealer who can't seem to sell any of theirs. And they have dozens of Brand New and NOS guitars hanging on the wall, including Private Stocks. But it's my theory that like an exotic car dealership, once the people who can afford one, buy one(or two), the market is saturated and repeat business, at least here in Austin, is over. And this doesn't count the ones on CL that have been listed for months that haven't sold. Just my casual observation from here.

I have a good friend in Austin who is a great drummer, his full time source of income I think. I get the feeling the Austin is more of a Fender and eclectic type of instrument town. I'm generalizing of course, but old Tele's and Strats and maybe Gretsch would seem to more to the local's liking. I was there maybe a year ago, went into one of the local music stores, and don't recall seeing many PRS if any then. I wonder sometimes if PRS are favored more in certain cities than others. Probably not, but I'm curious to see if there's a connection.

 

[markie]

ugh... the patriotic "buy American" stuff is not only insulting to our international community here but it represents folly in a lot of your trains of thought. I have a business degree and have a pretty good understanding of economic principles. I'm also a proud card carrying member of the United States of America. I support American manufacturing.....BUT...only to a point. There is a natural evolution to how an economy functions and grows. Very mature economies evolve to the point where we become more service based (banking, finance, insurance, trades, etc) versus manufacturing. Thats just the way it goes. I won't get into a long explanation. Simply put, imported manufactured products are a GOOD THING. A lot of you wouldn't be living in those nice houses or playing your core PRS guitars if we didn't import as much as we do.

Ugh.......... I'm just a dumb Kid from the cornfields of Indiana who barely got out of High School. I have managed to survive in Mfg. for 35 years though, which gives me a little business experience. Imported anything is cheaper than paying labor rates of the US, Australia, or Europe. We even import labor to drive down costs (or increase profits) in the US. Personally, I give Kudos to mfgrs like PRS whom obviously care about their employees.


Careful what you wish for: The next Industry may be yours.................. Might cause you to change your perspective :wink:


For the record: I have said for many years that a PRS SE is the best value for the money for any line of Guitars. I still believe that.

 

[C&M Music - Lafayette]

PRS is in great shape guys! I sincerely believe what you are seeing with NOS and used guitar inventory in any particular store is a sign of our economic times and not at all an indicator of a plight with PRS. Unfortunately, many in our country are in denial that we are in a deep recession. Quantitative easing has enabled that false perception and many more do not even know what quantitative easing is! Enough of that Hocus Pocus. Gibson is suffering as well. Recent talks I had with two GC Managers is that the Fender American Standard series is moving extremely well because of their price point (hence the PRS S2 series), which is also growing despite limited hands on and wall space. That says alot for PRS right there!!!!! Gibson has fallen out of grace as a great seller with particular models because of their radical changes they made at the end of last year, to include their ridiculous price hike that has not worked well for them and could be the end of that H.J. fella. Evident in the crazy amount of new Gibsons you see on the wall that are NOT SELLING! Used Gibsons were moving well because of their cheaper used price. But as their demand has increased, so has their used prices. Hence, more of them ON THE WALL AS WELL!!! PRS chose to change their relationship around with GC, not the other away around. It was a good move and sound business practice and PRS was not alone in this move!!! Of course GC willl say otherwise, they have to, to save face. Sweetwater sure moves the PRS line very well.

Now even better news. PRS's PS program sales are going ballistic. Orders are excellent. This cannot be said for no other American brand. Of course other brands are selling cutom shop instruments, but not at the rate and growth of PRS. A NAMM person told me PRS is the class of the field in the custom shop. Other brands are doing well, but PRS has set the standard and is lighting up sales with an expected increase that will likey double last year. That is insane. I will point out the unfortunate gross under estimation of PRS on how many PS Dragons would sell this year. They made 40 and could have easily sold 100. The number I heard was actually even higher, but I wont go there. PRS is killing it. ROCK FREAKIN ON PRS!

Now on to the beloved Core line. Paul is no fool. He has built the most refined and respected musical instrument company in the modern age. He knows what he is doing. It was PRS's decision to introduce three new core models this year, not including all the limited core runs we have seen this year. I do not see 30th Anniv., Cus 24 leftys, VIne inlays, or the multi foil Cerita models laying around anywhere. Answer is NO. Why? Because retailers are selling them!!!! The Core line introduced three new models this year and several limited runs. This is either of sign of good sales and business or a bad business practice. I submit to you the former. Great gut call by PRS because their new models or all hits!

The S2 line is moving well, despite almost no help from the likes of GC. The SE line has the class of the field with the Zack Myers (by the way I will not be changing anything on mine. That guitar is unreal out of the box)

Bottom line PRS is doing well, and in the least, no worse than Gibson and Fender percentage wise.

Another note I reported on in this forum in the past is the continual annual increase in acoustic guitar sales over electric sales. Again for 2014 and heading into 2015, acoustic sales have outpaced electric sales. The margin continues to increase. Some of the reasons cited are more people identifying with acoustic artist, and the lack of health and identity in the rock industry, but most notably, construction cost of labor and equipment have been minimized with better and more efficient equipment to produce more instruments. Otherwise, back in the day acoustic guitars required more time and attention. This is going away due to the technology allowing for more profit. Because while sale prices have only increased, the manufacturing cost have only decreased.

PRS is primarily an electric guitar company and some of what has affected all electric guitar companies can be attributed to what I just cited. My sources for my post are executive management in music retail to include retail chains and NAMM.

PRS is a healthy viable company that is doing fine and growing. Paul has stated himself that his brick and mortar retailers (mom and pops) are important to the success of his company. That is why he visits so many of them. That cannot be said of no other company. Probably because their owners are a collective board who simply do not care about those things and hence drives the thoughts of logic and ill-logic of direct sales that work for some companies, but not others. That is all I have to say. Can I get an AMEN! Peace!