Where to solder the green wire from the 08 to get the proper tap.

Dr Excess

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I’ll try and whip up a diagram for you tomorrow morning, but what you’re asking is totally doable and in fact (slightly) easier than the normal MT wiring. No guarantees that it will produce a sound you want though. I imagine it will be quite a bit darker than what I consider a fairly brightly voiced 85/15. One small correction: you want DPDT ON/ON switches (not ON/ON/ON) so they only have two toggle positions.

Hey,

Thanks. I think actually in my second reply yesterday that will actually give me the on/on/on with the 3 voicing (out of choice)

Because those 3 stage switches go top two, then top left and bottom right, and then bottom two (obviously both middle always engaged), If I were to setup the micro toggles basically as standard (red/white on top and green black on bottom), that would mean toggle would go:

  • Red / White (ignores extra winds on slug to make two relatively balanced coils - Normal 85/15 HB)
  • Red / Green (all the winds - 10k unbalanced - New mode)
  • Black / Green (ignores screw coil but includes all the winds on slug to beef up the output - 85/15 special louder Single as found on 24-08)
If I were to use standard two position on/on DPDT (top two or bottom two) switches I would have:

Red / White (ignores extra winds on slug to make two relatively balanced coils - Normal 85/15 HB)
Black / Green (ignores screw coil but includes all the winds on slug to beef up the output - 85/15 special louder Single as found on 24-08)

using the normal layout or in my customised layout as in the image (with red/green top and black/green bottom) I would then have:
  • Red / Green (all the winds - 10k unbalanced - New mode)
  • Black / Green (ignores screw coil but includes all the winds on slug to beef up the output - 85/15 special louder Single as found on 24-08)

I'm hoping this is correct otherwise I've totally misunderstood what you've been explaining.
 

garrett

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I don't have time to make it pretty right now, but here's a rough drawing of the on/on/on switch.

Because of which lugs are active in each position, you need to wire them a little different than stock. This is for bridge pickup; for neck, swap the locations of white & red, and swap locations of black & green.

The middle two lugs are always active, so those are your outputs

The other lugs activate like this:
1 - top lugs
2 - top right, bottom left
3 - bottom lugs

So you get:
1 - Red + White = Balanced HB
2 - Red + Green = Unbalanced HB
3 - Black + Green = Full slug coil

ILMZuW1h.jpg
 

Dr Excess

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Many thanks.

Well this is great news, because it means I did understand it, I was just following the wrong diagrams.

I had found this diagram:

3423067000_1401535986.jpg


And so I went with the type 1 and thought that was how it would work and so basically had it all mirrored (the way you explain is like type 2 which I now gather is the normal, im guessing this diagram is wrong. Damn internet):

So with Type 1 it would be:
  • Red / White (ignores extra winds on slug to make two relatively balanced coils - Normal 85/15 HB)
  • Red / Green (all the winds - 10k unbalanced - New mode)
  • Black / Green (ignores screw coil but includes all the winds on slug to beef up the output - 85/15 special louder Single as found on 24-08)

Type 2 as you have put it above.

The key thing for me here is that I have began to understand the wiring of electronics.

Thanks again :)
 

garrett

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Many thanks.

Well this is great news, because it means I did understand it, I was just following the wrong diagrams.

I had found this diagram:

3423067000_1401535986.jpg


And so I went with the type 1 and thought that was how it would work and so basically had it all mirrored (the way you explain is like type 2 which I now gather is the normal, im guessing this diagram is wrong. Damn internet):

So with Type 1 it would be:
  • Red / White (ignores extra winds on slug to make two relatively balanced coils - Normal 85/15 HB)
  • Red / Green (all the winds - 10k unbalanced - New mode)
  • Black / Green (ignores screw coil but includes all the winds on slug to beef up the output - 85/15 special louder Single as found on 24-08)

Type 2 as you have put it above.

The key thing for me here is that I have began to understand the wiring of electronics.

Thanks again :)

I only remember seeing type 2 on/on/on for sale, maybe it's the most common. But yeah, you got it down. Whether it's type 1 or 2, you know which wires should go to ground and hot for the sounds you want.
 

Malloc

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Hey,

Thanks. I think actually in my second reply yesterday that will actually give me the on/on/on with the 3 voicing (out of choice)

Because those 3 stage switches go top two, then top left and bottom right, and then bottom two (obviously both middle always engaged), If I were to setup the micro toggles basically as standard (red/white on top and green black on bottom), that would mean toggle would go:

  • Red / White (ignores extra winds on slug to make two relatively balanced coils - Normal 85/15 HB)
  • Red / Green (all the winds - 10k unbalanced - New mode)
  • Black / Green (ignores screw coil but includes all the winds on slug to beef up the output - 85/15 special louder Single as found on 24-08)
If I were to use standard two position on/on DPDT (top two or bottom two) switches I would have:

Red / White (ignores extra winds on slug to make two relatively balanced coils - Normal 85/15 HB)
Black / Green (ignores screw coil but includes all the winds on slug to beef up the output - 85/15 special louder Single as found on 24-08)

using the normal layout or in my customised layout as in the image (with red/green top and black/green bottom) I would then have:
  • Red / Green (all the winds - 10k unbalanced - New mode)
  • Black / Green (ignores screw coil but includes all the winds on slug to beef up the output - 85/15 special louder Single as found on 24-08)

I'm hoping this is correct otherwise I've totally misunderstood what you've been explaining.

My bad. Somehow I read your post as only wanting 10k or split.

Seems garrett beat me to the diagram and I don't disagree with what he posted.
 

Dr Excess

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My bad. Somehow I read your post as only wanting 10k or split.

Seems garrett beat me to the diagram and I don't disagree with what he posted.

tbh that's what I was wanting to begin with, but then as i went down the rabbit hole of what was available in electronics, and gained an understanding of how this works (from these amazing descriptions) the art of the possible took over :D

If I'm gonna do a project guitar, it just as well be wacky.
 

Dr Excess

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OK just to close the loop on this and remove all ambiguity. This is the final wiring I'll be going for.

prs-strat-08-on-on-on.png


This uses the CRL 3 way in the lug orientation that I have (appreciate the offset is different elsewhere but this is the way mine works), and uses the standard switch (on/on/on) as described above by @garrett and and not the whacky mirrored version I'd seen.

I'll be sure to upload some vids of the potentially weird offset humbuckers (probably shortly before I buy 2 new on/on micro switches because I hate the sound).

This has been a fun project to hypothesise and I've gone from no knowledge at all to how any of this works, to knowing how to test everything with a mm and follow the signal chain around the diagram. Entirely rewarding and can't wait for "The Dreamsicle" to start to take shape in the near future.

All that's left for her is the bridge (with cream coloured Tusq saddles, of course). She may look like a Strat, but inside she's all PRS (kinda).

20200403-104420.jpg
 

garrett

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OK just to close the loop on this and remove all ambiguity. This is the final wiring I'll be going for.

prs-strat-08-on-on-on.png


This uses the CRL 3 way in the lug orientation that I have (appreciate the offset is different elsewhere but this is the way mine works), and uses the standard switch (on/on/on) as described above by @garrett and and not the whacky mirrored version I'd seen.

I'll be sure to upload some vids of the potentially weird offset humbuckers (probably shortly before I buy 2 new on/on micro switches because I hate the sound).

This has been a fun project to hypothesise and I've gone from no knowledge at all to how any of this works, to knowing how to test everything with a mm and follow the signal chain around the diagram. Entirely rewarding and can't wait for "The Dreamsicle" to start to take shape in the near future.

All that's left for her is the bridge (with cream coloured Tusq saddles, of course). She may look like a Strat, but inside she's all PRS (kinda).

20200403-104420.jpg

I'm loving this so far!
 

Dr Excess

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I realised my previous diagram was not orientated correctly for the Strat control cavity.

It may be helpful to somebody one day, but if not, it'll be helpful for me when it comes to wiring later :)

I may try and reproduce the weird t bar for the micro switches, but I may just ground them individually (will probably be quicker and neater).

Fingers crossed.

prs-strat-08-on-on-on.jpg
 
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Dr Excess

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Now fully wired and built, just going through the process of setup.

At this stage though I can of course test the new mode on the pickups.

I will upload some audio samples once it's all intonated and can be played but what I will say is that the new sound is rather pleasant.

It actually isn't that surprising. The new mode actually kind of has a combination tone, the full humbucker is clearly there, with about 1/2 the highs and brightness of a single coil added (which is kind of what it is I guess).

It's definitely a pleasant sound, I'm glad I tried it and it's something I'm definitely going to use. It's a bit like a layered effect or two guitars at the same time and I'm sure it'll beef up some of the bluesy lead stuff I like to do where I usually use a single on the neck, but wish I could fatten the tone.

Very interesting experiment and it's gonna take me some time to go though all 15 modes.
 

EatSleepGuitar

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Ok so if I were in your shoes I’d try something like this first. Basic idea is the the PP splits bridge only that you can mix with split/full neck using the 5 way. Resulting tones would be:

PP down:
1 - full bridge
2 - bridge + neck split
3 - bridge + neck
4 - neck split
5 - full neck

PP up:
1 - bridge split
2 - bridge split + neck split
3 - bridge split + neck
4 - neck split (unchanged)
5 - full neck (unchanged)

Ok so I have a set of MTs I tried doing this with, except the hot lead is wrired to lug 1 of the volume pot (3 way switch in a les paul). I dont see any reason electrically why this is different, but theres a TON of ground noise, and I have to boost the signal a ton to get decent tone. In fact my kemper cuts it so badly with the noise gate just to make it manageable, that the signal is barely audible. If I disable the noise gate, its virtually unplayable unless Im touching hardware/strings with hand.

Im super confused as to why this is the case, as the 408 system works this way. Interestingly, I had a TCI pauls guitar last year that used the 408 system with the 408 narrows, and it also had a serious noise problem. None of my other guitars and pickups have this problem, Ive had multiple other pickups in this same les paul with no problems, the same wiring assembly even. Im wondering if this switching system of running the ground and hot leads right off an On/On DPDT is causing some time of grounding issue? The switch chassis is of course grounded too.

Im also wondering if mine are even MTs? Theyre marked 85/15 TCI, no MT mentioned. But they do include the green lead.

Someone previously measured out the multi tap DCRs between tap points, and Im sketched out by mine because I get opens between Red/white and Green/black unless the other two leads are connected.

Doesn't make sense to me, if the red to white and green to black connections are viable per the schematic (and it is correct in the quoted post, Ive corroborated with other diagrams), they should read...well not open when read between the two, right? Like I know the slug tap is intermediate of the "coil tap" (black or green) and the slug finish (red or white), but if its just a tap, it should be able to be treated as a "dead lead" and disconnected without causing an open if read black to green right?

Havent tried wiring it as a standard hum, but thats next on my list. It came out of a 2020 CU24, not -08 or anniversary, FWIW.
 
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Malloc

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I’d agree with your assessment that “85/15 TCI” is not multi-tap. I’d also speculate that TCI pickups have 4 wires that are the traditional humbucker wiring points (two starts two ends of the individual coils). You’re seeing open because there is no continuity without linking them in series. Definitely try wiring them like a normal humbucker.
 

EatSleepGuitar

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I’d agree with your assessment that “85/15 TCI” is not multi-tap. I’d also speculate that TCI pickups have 4 wires that are the traditional humbucker wiring points (two starts two ends of the individual coils). You’re seeing open because there is no continuity without linking them in series. Definitely try wiring them like a normal humbucker.

Yep, suspicions confirmed; mystery solved. Finally. Ya know that meme with the dude laying in bed facing away from his lady, with a bubble with her saying "I bet hes thinking about another woman," and one over his head saying "why wont my motorcycle start?"

Thats been me. For weeks.

Should've trusted my gut. Stupid green wire.

So yeah, for the future googlers finding this, looking for answers: the 85/15 TCI's DO have a green wire, and they are NOT multi tap. For some reason they decided to do one like the CE version of this pickup, but with just shielding instead of the orange wire. Dumb. This schematic is for the SE version, but the wiring, as far as what leads go where in order to avoid OOP middle position, is the same:

4-conductor 85/15 TCI wiring
 

gush

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Hey, as my previous post i have acquired some pickups from a 24 08 for my cu24.

Eventually I'm going to use some pp to simulate the 408 / 24-08 functionality bit for now I'd just like to put them in my cu24 and take advantage of the increased volume in single coil mode.

The wiring for my 24 is here (http://www.prsguitars.com/documents/customs_2017.pdf) but the 24-08 have an additional green wire (which i assume are the extra coils on the single coils).

I'm assuming these need to be made live when the other coil is split.

I'm new to guitar electronics but from the images i see we have a ground side and a hot side. I'm assuming where we ground out using the white cable we also then make live on the adjacent pin using the green?

Another q about prs 5 blade switch, how come it has 9 pairs of pins? They're arranged 5 and then 4, i can't work out why?

Many thanks
I have push pulls on both vol and tone pots on my McCarty. I had it done at PTC.

I am convinced the dual PPs affect the pickups tone in a negative way.

I've had 5909s in my McCarty with this setup and with stock wiring. They sounded so much better with stock wiring and makes me think that's why they use mini toggles on the 408 and 24-08.

This is just my observation and have no other evidence other than my own ears.

I am seriously thinking about changing away from dual PPs for this reason
 

EatSleepGuitar

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I have push pulls on both vol and tone pots on my McCarty. I had it done at PTC.

I am convinced the dual PPs affect the pickups tone in a negative way.

I've had 5909s in my McCarty with this setup and with stock wiring. They sounded so much better with stock wiring and makes me think that's why they use mini toggles on the 408 and 24-08.

This is just my observation and have no other evidence other than my own ears.

I am seriously thinking about changing away from dual PPs for this reason
In theory they shouldn’t, really. I think the McCarty pups use the three conductor wiring IIRC, so it’s just the red wire to ground? Or maybe white if it’s single/shielded… either way There shouldn’t be any bleed to ground via the DPDT switch unless it’s engaged. So if there’s any aspect of your tone that’s affected, it could be that they used a pot with a different resistance value as the originals, since they only have on hand what they have. And maybe Paul spec’d a different tolerance when your McCarty was built than whatever they stock now.

I’d like to believe PRS uses 10% or lower, but even that 50k ohms can make a big difference: one pot could be 450k and one could be 550k. That’s a HUGE margin for bleeding higher freq’s to ground even with the knob on 10. Could also be that they replaced the caps with some that are in a different range. Maybe that it used to have .022 uF, lately they use .033 uF I believe. Definite difference in what gets grounded there.

I’ve had some guitars like this before. Maybe try disconnecting the tone pot from ground, playing it, seeing what you think. If you like what you hear with absolutely nothing getting grounded, buy some No-load push pulls and install those. On 10 you will retain every frequency your pickups intended.
 

gush

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In theory they shouldn’t, really. I think the McCarty pups use the three conductor wiring IIRC, so it’s just the red wire to ground? Or maybe white if it’s single/shielded… either way There shouldn’t be any bleed to ground via the DPDT switch unless it’s engaged. So if there’s any aspect of your tone that’s affected, it could be that they used a pot with a different resistance value as the originals, since they only have on hand what they have. And maybe Paul spec’d a different tolerance when your McCarty was built than whatever they stock now.

I’d like to believe PRS uses 10% or lower, but even that 50k ohms can make a big difference: one pot could be 450k and one could be 550k. That’s a HUGE margin for bleeding higher freq’s to ground even with the knob on 10. Could also be that they replaced the caps with some that are in a different range. Maybe that it used to have .022 uF, lately they use .033 uF I believe. Definite difference in what gets grounded there.

I’ve had some guitars like this before. Maybe try disconnecting the tone pot from ground, playing it, seeing what you think. If you like what you hear with absolutely nothing getting grounded, buy some No-load push pulls and install those. On 10 you will retain every frequency your pickups intended.
Great advice. Thanks
 
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