Where to solder the green wire from the 08 to get the proper tap.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Dr Excess, Dec 12, 2019.

  1. Dr Excess

    Dr Excess New Member

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    Hey, as my previous post i have acquired some pickups from a 24 08 for my cu24.

    Eventually I'm going to use some pp to simulate the 408 / 24-08 functionality bit for now I'd just like to put them in my cu24 and take advantage of the increased volume in single coil mode.

    The wiring for my 24 is here (http://www.prsguitars.com/documents/customs_2017.pdf) but the 24-08 have an additional green wire (which i assume are the extra coils on the single coils).

    I'm assuming these need to be made live when the other coil is split.

    I'm new to guitar electronics but from the images i see we have a ground side and a hot side. I'm assuming where we ground out using the white cable we also then make live on the adjacent pin using the green?

    Another q about prs 5 blade switch, how come it has 9 pairs of pins? They're arranged 5 and then 4, i can't work out why?

    Many thanks
     
  2. Malloc

    Malloc New Member

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    I’d have a look at the PG schematic instead of a Custom if you’d like to know more. Given the lack of resistors I think the toggles change the hot instead of grounding a coil like many other split designs. Without adding a PP you’ll have to choose which two split combinations you want and wire them to position 2/4. The 5 way has a common hot/ground output pair followed by 5 positions worth of other hot/ground rails. For example, looking at the switch in position 1 (bridge only) you’ll see it ties the bridge hot to hot rail and bridge ground to ground rail, but leaves the other half of the switch floating in the gap between rails to completely disconnect the neck pickup.
     
  3. Malloc

    Malloc New Member

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    Ok so if I were in your shoes I’d try something like this first. Basic idea is the the PP splits bridge only that you can mix with split/full neck using the 5 way. Resulting tones would be:

    PP down:
    1 - full bridge
    2 - bridge + neck split
    3 - bridge + neck
    4 - neck split
    5 - full neck

    PP up:
    1 - bridge split
    2 - bridge split + neck split
    3 - bridge split + neck
    4 - neck split (unchanged)
    5 - full neck (unchanged)

    [​IMG]
     
    #3 Malloc, Dec 12, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2019
  4. Dr Excess

    Dr Excess New Member

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    Hey thanks for this, super interesting (and adventurous). I think though this is beyond me right now (although as I build a little confidence It's great to have this as reference).

    If I were to just want to keep things simple though, not PP and just the 5 voicings (to be honest I'm used to them and I don't really need the extra options) but simply wanted to use the new pickups and just engage the green additional winds whenever the coil is tapped by the white, where would I solder the green?

    I guess I'd just solder the red / black / white exactly as my current 59/09, it's just the greens I don't know what to do with,
     
  5. Malloc

    Malloc New Member

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    Ok so if you want just the normal 5 way voicings I think this is how you’d do it. Big caveat here: I’m not 100% which hot is which looking at the PG diagram. If you happen to have a multi meter it would be helpful to check and record the impedance between red/white and green/black for both pickups.

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Dr Excess

    Dr Excess New Member

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    Hey, wow thanks a lot for the effort here.

    Really appreciate your assistance, will dig out the multi-meter after work.

    I had no idea guitar electronics would be so confusing. Guitar techs are a lot brighter than I give credit for.
     
    #6 Dr Excess, Dec 13, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2019
  7. Malloc

    Malloc New Member

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    Ya I wouldn’t do anything until you meter it out.
     
  8. garrett

    garrett knows just enough to be dangerous

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    They may have four wires, but the MT (and 408) don't split like normal four wire pickups. They are unique and not very many people have taken the time to see how they work. Malloc did some great thinking to get the right switching combos for you.


    The multimeter is a good friend!

    I recently grabbed a set of 85/15 MT myself, though I have no real plans for them so far. It is an ingeniously simple design.


    BASS
    Red/White 7.99 (ignores extra winds on slug to make two relatively balanced coils)
    Green/Black 5.77 (ignores screw coil but includes all the winds on slug to beef up the output)

    You can connect them to sound like typical humbucker split/tap if you want a wimpier single coil tone:
    White/Black 3.9 (tapped slug only)
    Black/Red 4.09 (screw only)

    You can even connect them to be super wimpy or super beefy if you want (maybe not useful):
    White/Green 1.88 (extra slug winds)
    Red/Green 9.88 (all the winds)


    TREBLE
    Red/White 8.54
    Green/Black 5.92

    White/Black 4.41
    Red/Black 4.13

    White/Green 1.51
    Red/Green 10.04



    Oh, and the PRS switch has 9 lugs per side because each row has a common lug followed by lugs for positions 1-4, and then lugs for positions 2-5. This is a built-to-purpose design so they can have just bridge and just neck in positions 1 and 5, and then do the different coil combos in the middle with no unused lugs.
     
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  9. Malloc

    Malloc New Member

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    Nice. Garret’s post confirms my wiring guess: Black/green is the split path so that diagram should be correct.
     
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  10. Dr Excess

    Dr Excess New Member

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    Just like the guitars, this is an incredibly good forum and I think you both for taking your time to help me like this. Great info and it's taught me a lot, and I hope it is useful for others someday.

    @garrett, how come you're not using the MTs, what pickups do you have in yours (if you don't mind me asking)?

    My only reservation is I love the tone of 59/09s, so much so I actually replaced my round bobbins 59/09 to square bobbin lol. They have a nice warm tone to them, I may miss that.
     
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  11. garrett

    garrett knows just enough to be dangerous

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    About my MT set: I was just poking around online a couple weeks ago looking for trouble and found a set for sale at a very reasonable price. The listing had been up for a while, so I said what the heck and made an offer, which was accepted. No real plan other than I saw a good deal on rare pickups. I might get a 35th anniversary S2 and might use the MT with that if the 85/15 S don't do it for me.

    I am happy with the 58/15 LT in my 594 and I have regular 85/15 in my CU22 which I modded to do exactly what Malloc outlined in post #3, except I split to screw coil with resistors. They work great that way, so not much motivation to change.
     
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  12. Malloc

    Malloc New Member

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    Not that this is an emporium, but if anyone here *doesn’t* want a set of MT’s and needs to find a good home for them shoot me a PM ;)
     
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  13. Malloc

    Malloc New Member

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    So I managed to get my hands on a pair of 85/15 MT and after installing in my P22 I can now 100% confirm my 5 way/push pull diagram is correct. To my ears they do sound brighter than the 59/09s they replaced, but the splits are so much better I can't ever see myself going back.
     
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  14. Dr Excess

    Dr Excess New Member

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    Oh sweet! so you did this setup?

    PP down:
    1 - full bridge
    2 - bridge + neck split
    3 - bridge + neck
    4 - neck split
    5 - full neck

    PP up:
    1 - bridge split
    2 - bridge split + neck split
    3 - bridge split + neck
    4 - neck split (unchanged)
    5 - full neck (unchanged)

    I dunno see, I love the sound of 59/09s but then I prefer the warmer, more subdued tone.

    I've got a separate project for my 85/15s now, I think I'm going to do a straight copy of the Paul's guitar setup and forego the push pull entirely, but should I change my mind and shelve that project it's great that you've got this working :)
     
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  15. Malloc

    Malloc New Member

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    Yup, did it exactly as I originally laid out here.

    The PG scheme is much easier wiring IMO, but best of luck trying that too.
     
  16. Dr Excess

    Dr Excess New Member

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    So I was thinking. If I were to use 2x 3 way toggles instead of 2 way on a Paul's guitar style setup would I be able to wire overdriven pickups?

    So stage 1 - single (+ extra winds), 2 - humbucker (without the extra wind as P's G) 3 - humbucker + extra winds?
     
  17. Malloc

    Malloc New Member

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    I don’t think you can with 3 way DPDT switches since the middle position usually acts as a disconnect. You’d have to have 2x 3 way blade switches or some other kind that have 4 poles per side.
     
  18. garrett

    garrett knows just enough to be dangerous

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    You can actually, with DPDT on/on/on switches. The order would have to be 1, 3, 2, though.

    Most importantly, I would first wire it up as the full winds (red/green) to see how it sounds. The slug coil will be a lot stronger than screw, so it may or may not sound good. If it does sound good, let us know. I haven't gotten around to trying it, but if I'm missing out on something good, I have a spare on/on/on I could put in my SE One. :D
     
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