Where to solder the green wire from the 08 to get the proper tap.

Dr Excess

New Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2019
Messages
23
Hey, as my previous post i have acquired some pickups from a 24 08 for my cu24.

Eventually I'm going to use some pp to simulate the 408 / 24-08 functionality bit for now I'd just like to put them in my cu24 and take advantage of the increased volume in single coil mode.

The wiring for my 24 is here (http://www.prsguitars.com/documents/customs_2017.pdf) but the 24-08 have an additional green wire (which i assume are the extra coils on the single coils).

I'm assuming these need to be made live when the other coil is split.

I'm new to guitar electronics but from the images i see we have a ground side and a hot side. I'm assuming where we ground out using the white cable we also then make live on the adjacent pin using the green?

Another q about prs 5 blade switch, how come it has 9 pairs of pins? They're arranged 5 and then 4, i can't work out why?

Many thanks
 

Malloc

New Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2014
Messages
333
I’d have a look at the PG schematic instead of a Custom if you’d like to know more. Given the lack of resistors I think the toggles change the hot instead of grounding a coil like many other split designs. Without adding a PP you’ll have to choose which two split combinations you want and wire them to position 2/4. The 5 way has a common hot/ground output pair followed by 5 positions worth of other hot/ground rails. For example, looking at the switch in position 1 (bridge only) you’ll see it ties the bridge hot to hot rail and bridge ground to ground rail, but leaves the other half of the switch floating in the gap between rails to completely disconnect the neck pickup.
 

Malloc

New Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2014
Messages
333
Ok so if I were in your shoes I’d try something like this first. Basic idea is the the PP splits bridge only that you can mix with split/full neck using the 5 way. Resulting tones would be:

PP down:
1 - full bridge
2 - bridge + neck split
3 - bridge + neck
4 - neck split
5 - full neck

PP up:
1 - bridge split
2 - bridge split + neck split
3 - bridge split + neck
4 - neck split (unchanged)
5 - full neck (unchanged)

 
Last edited:

Dr Excess

New Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2019
Messages
23
Ok so if I were in your shoes I’d try something like this first. Basic idea is the the PP splits bridge only that you can mix with split/full neck using the 5 way. Resulting tones would be:

PP down:
1 - full bridge
2 - bridge + neck split
3 - bridge + neck
4 - neck split
5 - full neck

PP up:
1 - bridge split
2 - bridge split + neck split
3 - bridge split + neck
4 - neck split (unchanged)
5 - full neck (unchanged)


what is image hosting

Hey thanks for this, super interesting (and adventurous). I think though this is beyond me right now (although as I build a little confidence It's great to have this as reference).

If I were to just want to keep things simple though, not PP and just the 5 voicings (to be honest I'm used to them and I don't really need the extra options) but simply wanted to use the new pickups and just engage the green additional winds whenever the coil is tapped by the white, where would I solder the green?

I guess I'd just solder the red / black / white exactly as my current 59/09, it's just the greens I don't know what to do with,
 

Malloc

New Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2014
Messages
333
Ok so if you want just the normal 5 way voicings I think this is how you’d do it. Big caveat here: I’m not 100% which hot is which looking at the PG diagram. If you happen to have a multi meter it would be helpful to check and record the impedance between red/white and green/black for both pickups.

 

Dr Excess

New Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2019
Messages
23
Ok so if you want just the normal 5 way voicings I think this is how you’d do it. Big caveat here: I’m not 100% which hot is which looking at the PG diagram. If you happen to have a multi meter it would be helpful to check and record the impedance between red/white and green/black for both pickups.



Hey, wow thanks a lot for the effort here.

Really appreciate your assistance, will dig out the multi-meter after work.

I had no idea guitar electronics would be so confusing. Guitar techs are a lot brighter than I give credit for.
 
Last edited:

garrett

...
Joined
Jul 27, 2012
Messages
6,181
Location
The southern tip of Tampa Bay
Hey, wow thanks a lot for the effort here. Glad I asked tbh, the previous advice I was given was simply connect the white to the green and then whenever it was split with the white, the extra coils in the remaining single coil would be grounded and activated (green). That clearly isn't the case by your diagram as literally every cable moves position.

Really appreciate your assistance, will dig out the multi-meter after work.

I had no idea guitar electronics would be so confusing. Guitar techs are a lot brighter than I give credit for.

They may have four wires, but the MT (and 408) don't split like normal four wire pickups. They are unique and not very many people have taken the time to see how they work. Malloc did some great thinking to get the right switching combos for you.


Ya I wouldn’t do anything until you meter it out.

The multimeter is a good friend!

I recently grabbed a set of 85/15 MT myself, though I have no real plans for them so far. It is an ingeniously simple design.


BASS
Red/White 7.99 (ignores extra winds on slug to make two relatively balanced coils)
Green/Black 5.77 (ignores screw coil but includes all the winds on slug to beef up the output)

You can connect them to sound like typical humbucker split/tap if you want a wimpier single coil tone:
White/Black 3.9 (tapped slug only)
Black/Red 4.09 (screw only)

You can even connect them to be super wimpy or super beefy if you want (maybe not useful):
White/Green 1.88 (extra slug winds)
Red/Green 9.88 (all the winds)


TREBLE
Red/White 8.54
Green/Black 5.92

White/Black 4.41
Red/Black 4.13

White/Green 1.51
Red/Green 10.04



Oh, and the PRS switch has 9 lugs per side because each row has a common lug followed by lugs for positions 1-4, and then lugs for positions 2-5. This is a built-to-purpose design so they can have just bridge and just neck in positions 1 and 5, and then do the different coil combos in the middle with no unused lugs.
 

Dr Excess

New Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2019
Messages
23
Nice. Garret’s post confirms my wiring guess: Black/green is the split path so that diagram should be correct.

Just like the guitars, this is an incredibly good forum and I think you both for taking your time to help me like this. Great info and it's taught me a lot, and I hope it is useful for others someday.

@garrett, how come you're not using the MTs, what pickups do you have in yours (if you don't mind me asking)?

My only reservation is I love the tone of 59/09s, so much so I actually replaced my round bobbins 59/09 to square bobbin lol. They have a nice warm tone to them, I may miss that.
 

garrett

...
Joined
Jul 27, 2012
Messages
6,181
Location
The southern tip of Tampa Bay
Just like the guitars, this is an incredibly good forum and I think you both for taking your time to help me like this. Great info and it's taught me a lot, and I hope it is useful for others someday.

@garrett, how come you're not using the MTs, what pickups do you have in yours (if you don't mind me asking)?

My only reservation is I love the tone of 59/09s, so much so I actually replaced my round bobbins 59/09 to square bobbin lol. They have a nice warm tone to them, I may miss that.

About my MT set: I was just poking around online a couple weeks ago looking for trouble and found a set for sale at a very reasonable price. The listing had been up for a while, so I said what the heck and made an offer, which was accepted. No real plan other than I saw a good deal on rare pickups. I might get a 35th anniversary S2 and might use the MT with that if the 85/15 S don't do it for me.

I am happy with the 58/15 LT in my 594 and I have regular 85/15 in my CU22 which I modded to do exactly what Malloc outlined in post #3, except I split to screw coil with resistors. They work great that way, so not much motivation to change.
 

Malloc

New Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2014
Messages
333
Not that this is an emporium, but if anyone here *doesn’t* want a set of MT’s and needs to find a good home for them shoot me a PM ;)
 

Malloc

New Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2014
Messages
333
So I managed to get my hands on a pair of 85/15 MT and after installing in my P22 I can now 100% confirm my 5 way/push pull diagram is correct. To my ears they do sound brighter than the 59/09s they replaced, but the splits are so much better I can't ever see myself going back.
 

Dr Excess

New Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2019
Messages
23
Oh sweet! so you did this setup?

PP down:
1 - full bridge
2 - bridge + neck split
3 - bridge + neck
4 - neck split
5 - full neck

PP up:
1 - bridge split
2 - bridge split + neck split
3 - bridge split + neck
4 - neck split (unchanged)
5 - full neck (unchanged)

I dunno see, I love the sound of 59/09s but then I prefer the warmer, more subdued tone.

I've got a separate project for my 85/15s now, I think I'm going to do a straight copy of the Paul's guitar setup and forego the push pull entirely, but should I change my mind and shelve that project it's great that you've got this working :)
 

Malloc

New Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2014
Messages
333
Yup, did it exactly as I originally laid out here.

The PG scheme is much easier wiring IMO, but best of luck trying that too.
 

Dr Excess

New Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2019
Messages
23
Yup, did it exactly as I originally laid out here.

The PG scheme is much easier wiring IMO, but best of luck trying that too.

So I was thinking. If I were to use 2x 3 way toggles instead of 2 way on a Paul's guitar style setup would I be able to wire overdriven pickups?

So stage 1 - single (+ extra winds), 2 - humbucker (without the extra wind as P's G) 3 - humbucker + extra winds?
 

Malloc

New Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2014
Messages
333
I don’t think you can with 3 way DPDT switches since the middle position usually acts as a disconnect. You’d have to have 2x 3 way blade switches or some other kind that have 4 poles per side.
 

garrett

...
Joined
Jul 27, 2012
Messages
6,181
Location
The southern tip of Tampa Bay
So I was thinking. If I were to use 2x 3 way toggles instead of 2 way on a Paul's guitar style setup would I be able to wire overdriven pickups?

So stage 1 - single (+ extra winds), 2 - humbucker (without the extra wind as P's G) 3 - humbucker + extra winds?

You can actually, with DPDT on/on/on switches. The order would have to be 1, 3, 2, though.

Most importantly, I would first wire it up as the full winds (red/green) to see how it sounds. The slug coil will be a lot stronger than screw, so it may or may not sound good. If it does sound good, let us know. I haven't gotten around to trying it, but if I'm missing out on something good, I have a spare on/on/on I could put in my SE One. :D
 

Dr Excess

New Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2019
Messages
23
Hey, long time no speak.

Well the project is starting to take shape and it's almost time for electrics. This is no longer taking place inside my cu24, and so I can be a bit more liberal with the electronics.

I've made a few changes and decided that I still want to use the little DPDT toggles but I also want to use a CRL spring style 3 way switch.

I also want to make use of @garrett findings and try the humbuckers with the extra wings (because it may or may not sound cool, worth a try, it'll be original if nothing else).

So using the advice here, and modelled on the 408 wiring, and that which I've found for the CRL, I think this will work?

So logic is
  • CRL in normal 2 pickup wiring, with jumpers along the middle as shown.
  • Toggle up is Red / Green (Humbucker + extra winds - 10k instead of 8k)
  • Toggle down is "normal" split coil with extra winds (ignores screw coil but includes all the winds on slug to beef up the output)
  • although they don't specify anywhere switch is rounded to Vol casing.

I am an absolute novice, and this has been hard to get my head around, but I think I have this right? Many thanks to @garrett and @Malloc for their help and patience.

p.s. I got my wiring advice for CRL from this video:


but I see the same thing mentioned elsewhere.

yxVQyww.png

tsdBvD8
 
Last edited:

Dr Excess

New Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2019
Messages
23
and, if I think I've got this right, if I were to go for the 3 toggle on/on/on type mini toggle switch (type 1), I could do that, but I'd need to replace the top green with white, so it would go :

Red - White
Hot - Ground / Ground - Hot
Black - Green

And the three positions would then be switch positions would be:

Red / White (ignores extra winds on slug to make two relatively balanced coils - Normal 85/15 HB)
Red / Green (all the winds - 10k unbalanced - New mode)
Black / Green (ignores screw coil but includes all the winds on slug to beef up the output - 85/15 special louder Single as found on 24-08)
 
Top