Venue Power VS Amps!

[László]

A new venue brought a new chapter to this on Friday night.

I plugged in my 40 watt Tone King Comet, for a show in a room that can hold 50 people. The room was a little bigger than my living room and kitchen combined, so not much power needed, right?

From the onset of volume, the amp was distorted! It's usually clean with my PRS CU24 up until 3.5 on the volume knob, which is pretty freaking loud.

The next day, I plugged in at a regular venue, and the amp was perfect. Loud and clean.

I've played in the same building as the Friday night show several times before, but on their main stage, and that amp is always dirty-ish in that building.

Any power regulator will do the job you need done, some of course do a better job than others. If you have an under voltage, it's going to make the amp pretty dirty sounding, which is why some players purposely use a Variac to do that very thing.

Using a UPS is one way of compensating for low and high voltage issues, though I don't think I'd want to lug around a battery, and that's how a UPS works, it will clamp down on a high voltage, and use the battery to compensate for an under voltage. I'd just use a Furman P-1800 AR or something like it because it will regenerate the correct voltage internally without a battery, and it weighs a lot less than a good UPS. Also, no battery to fail during a show.

There are boxes that will reduce voltage, like the Brown Box, but that does you no good if the voltage is already too low.

The Furman box is expensive, but it will serve most players faithfully for a long time. I use a Furman power unit here in my studio.

 

[Boogie]

..Furman P-1800 AR...

If you have $900 to throw at the problem, this is possibly the best solution.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

That's always been my issue...

 

[László]

If you have $900 to throw at the problem, this is possibly the best solution.

It's only money. I mean, if you didn't buy the power regulator, you'd only waste it on non-eessentials like food...a roof over your head...gasoline...right?

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Lol, or another amp!

 

[Danerada]

So after reading this thread, I have emailed PRS about the use of a variac and have been looking at variacs. On question I have is, can i run power conditioner out of the variac and supply clean 120V to multiple devices?

BTW - PRS said that my amps run best on a clean 120V (Dallas and Sweet 16) and the use of a variac in places with questionable electric is a great idea.

 

[László]

So after reading this thread, I have emailed PRS about the use of a variac and have been looking at variacs. On question I have is, can i run power conditioner out of the variac and supply clean 120V to multiple devices?

BTW - PRS said that my amps run best on a clean 120V (Dallas and Sweet 16) and the use of a variac in places with questionable electric is a great idea.

My amps sound better on a clean 120V as well. You don't necessarily need a Variac, but power regulation (not "cleaning up" the power, I mean regulating to an exact 120V) is always a great idea.

 

[Boogie]

So after reading this thread, I have emailed PRS about the use of a variac and have been looking at variacs. On question I have is, can i run power conditioner out of the variac and supply clean 120V to multiple devices?

BTW - PRS said that my amps run best on a clean 120V (Dallas and Sweet 16) and the use of a variac in places with questionable electric is a great idea.

Dane, I don't think this will work. By definition, a Variac is designed to change the normal 120VAC supply. The one my dad had when I was a kid only reduced (as opposed to reduce and increase) voltage and I used it for my electric train set. The power conditioners with regulation are designed to keep a 120VAC supply at a constant level. Feed it 100v or less and the regulation will probably fail. If it didn't, it would fight like hell to bring the sag back up to 120v. That's its job. Purposely feeding it something other than 120v seems counterintuitive. Now, just using a Variac without a conditioner or regulation would be cool if you want to starve the power transformer ala Eddie Van Halen.

 

[Danerada]

Ok Boog - I was confused i guess...happens more than I like to admit. LOL

 

[squirrel211]

As a further addition to this thread, the next day's show provided some unintended entertainment when, for some weird reason, my Line 6 M13 had an issue with grounding, and my lips got shocked when I sang.

Made for an interesting show!!!

 

[squirrel211]

Any power regulator will do the job you need done, some of course do a better job than others. If you have an under voltage, it's going to make the amp pretty dirty sounding, which is why some players purposely use a Variac to do that very thing.

Using a UPS is one way of compensating for low and high voltage issues, though I don't think I'd want to lug around a battery, and that's how a UPS works, it will clamp down on a high voltage, and use the battery to compensate for an under voltage. I'd just use a Furman P-1800 AR or something like it because it will regenerate the correct voltage internally without a battery, and it weighs a lot less than a good UPS. Also, no battery to fail during a show.

There are boxes that will reduce voltage, like the Brown Box, but that does you no good if the voltage is already too low.

The Furman box is expensive, but it will serve most players faithfully for a long time. I use a Furman power unit here in my studio.

I would totally get one of those if we played more venues. I would need the Furman unit only once or twice a year as it stands right now. All of our regular venues are fine.

 

[László]

my lips got shocked when I sang.

Try changing your lyrics?

 

[Boogie]

Try changing your lyrics?

Or just Joe Cocker it!

That happened to me a couple of months ago while using my talk box. The electrocution resulted in salty language unfit for prime time, but they recorded it anyway. Apparently I amuse them. I'm promised that it will make its way into a release, some day.

 

[Boogie]

Ok Boog - I was confused i guess...happens more than I like to admit. LOL

No buddy, probably had the definitions blurred by so much jargon thrown around. Keeping the voltage at a stable level is usually the job of regulation. It boosts the sags, cuts the spikes. A Variac is a device that has a dial to reduce the input voltage to a lower level. EVH used one to simulate using a European amp with US power. The familiar computer-grade UPS performs regulation with the added ability to boost poor voltage for an extended period. And if someone trips a circuit breaker, your amp doesn't suddenly slam off. The good ones also filter noise pretty well.

 

[squirrel211]

NEW CHAPTER!

We played a show at a new venue; the power was weak, and not grounded. My Line 6 M13 didn't have enough power to operate continuously, and would power off every 5-10 seconds. Fortunately I had a Boss DD-2 and my old DL-4 in my bag, and used those as a work-around for the delays. My amp sounded saturated and 2-dimensional. We had crazy hum all night too!

I think I might look into that Furman unit Les.

 

[bodia]

NEW CHAPTER!

We played a show at a new venue; the power was weak, and not grounded. My Line 6 M13 didn't have enough power to operate continuously, and would power off every 5-10 seconds. Fortunately I had a Boss DD-2 and my old DL-4 in my bag, and used those as a work-around for the delays. My amp sounded saturated and 2-dimensional. We had crazy hum all night too!

I think I might look into that Furman unit Les.

If you go this route, order it from Amazon. I "let" Les "twist my arm" and ordered one. Most dealers had it listed at $799, and up. Amazon had it for $602 direct from Furman. I ordered early/mid last week and got an estimated delivery of 10-1 to 10-5. Updated on Friday and will be delivered today. Way more than I need, but I'll sleep better knowing it's there working.

And when I say I let Les twist my arm I actually mean he said he used it, and it worked. I didn't need much more "pushing".

 

[László]

NEW CHAPTER!

We played a show at a new venue; the power was weak, and not grounded. My Line 6 M13 didn't have enough power to operate continuously, and would power off every 5-10 seconds. Fortunately I had a Boss DD-2 and my old DL-4 in my bag, and used those as a work-around for the delays. My amp sounded saturated and 2-dimensional. We had crazy hum all night too!

I think I might look into that Furman unit Les.

Be sure to get the power regulator, as opposed to what I have; mine is more of a conditioner and power reservoir, and isn't intended to regulate the power to the right voltage.

They make a separate unit for that purpose.

 

[Kred]

BTW a variac (variable AC transformer) has no line or load regulation, so does not clean up noisy power. It is a single coil of wire wrapped around a circular metal core, with a movable contact to select a coil tap to adjust the AC voltage up or down with a large knob. It has no isolation from the AC mains, which is an additional shock hazard.

 

[squirrel211]

This being-in-a-band thing has suddenly become expensive!

I wish I could go back to the ignorant bliss of a decade ago, where I didn't need humbuckers for heavy stuff, I didn't "roll tubes," I didn't need power conditioners, I just winged everything instead of trying to highlight chord tones, I didn't need to use an effects loop, I didn't have $3,000 guitars and amps, and I wore sized 32 pants!!!

 

[László]

This being-in-a-band thing has suddenly become expensive!

I wish I could go back to the ignorant bliss of a decade ago, where I didn't need humbuckers for heavy stuff, I didn't "roll tubes," I didn't need power conditioners, I just winged everything instead of trying to highlight chord tones, I didn't need to use an effects loop, I didn't have $3,000 guitars and amps, and I wore sized 32 pants!!!

I'm with ya on the pants.