Tuner Design Issue

[Slowhands]

My daughter knocked over the P20 Parlor guitar and the tuner button on the G string busted. I decided instead of trying to find a matching button to replace the busted one it would be nice to swap the whole set for a new one from Gotoh that has a vintage-ish looking nickel buttons. Like that look, thought it would look good with the all black P20.

Of course doing so required reaming out a larger hole for a bigger 10mm bushing, so I did that on the first hole, the one that replaces the broken G-string. And now that it's installed I see that the hole for the string barely sits above the bushing. In fact the bottom of the hole looks to be right on the edge of the top of the bushing or slightly below it.

Well that's not ideal, I've never had a guitar where the string hole on the tuner was right up against the bushing like that. Perhaps I installed it wrong? Well I still have five in a box so here's what the tuners look like uninstalled.

Nope, the shaft lengths line up just like in the installed one, it's just that the hole is a little lower, but a little translates to just enough to yield that issue I show above.

I am committed now since I reamed out the hole to enlarge it for a 10mm bushing but I 'm not necessarily committed to this set of tuners. Before I install any others I'd like to know if anyone has seen anything like this and is it a reasonable design or will it give me problems?

 

[jimfisher]

I'd suggest that you call John Mann (mannmadeusa.com) and get his take on it. John is a PRS dealer and sells, and designs, many things for PRS guitars. Best of luck!

 

[E.X]

This surprised me, was under the impression gotoh kluson-styled tuners were a drop in replacement.

Thank you for inadvertently pointing this out and best of luck getting it sorted.

 

[Broseph]

Man this stinks. I like those gotoh tuners. I use them on my Mexican fenders. Very reliable tuners for the price

 

[Slowhands]

This surprised me, was under the impression gotoh kluson-styled tuners were a drop in replacement.

Thank you for inadvertently pointing this out and best of luck getting it sorted.

I thought they were too. There is no info on what size tuners these parlor guitars take but it's an 8mm. Someone in an online forum said that the Gotoh SD90 series would drop in, they do not. I should have guessed that from the fact that it's a non-USA made guitar but I guessed wrong.

Man this stinks. I like those gotoh tuners. I use them on my Mexican fenders. Very reliable tuners for the price

Agreed, they look cool on the P20 Parlor guitar too (if only they fit it properly!)

 

[Slowhands]

Just for closure, in case anyone ever runs into this again: I found this set of "golden age" open back style tuners on Stew Mac that fit into the stock bushings and work great. The posts are just a little bit longer so there is no issue like the gotoh ones has with the fairly fat headstock.

The buttons are a little more yellowed than the stock ones on the P20 Parlor Guitar but since I replaced them all nobody will ever need to know. I saved the money they wanted for the relic look in the pic below and just got the shiny chrome ones. I wasn'y going to impress anyone with relic tuners with a big "made in indonesia" stamp in between them anyway. They work great, drop in replacements easy peasy.

https://www.stewmac.com/parts-and-h...lden-age-restoration-guitar-tuners-3and3.html

 

[Eddie kim]

Here is my SE Zm model with the goto locking tuner. The previous owner put them on. It is really shallow compared to the oem on. It still works great.

 

[Slowhands]

It comes down to headstock thickness. I used a caliper to measure the thickness of the headstocks on my 1990 Cu24, the new PRS SE P20 parlor guitar, and my Gibson SG. The Gotoh's have the identical post length as vintage style Kluson Deluxe tuners so they are really meant to replicate the ones you'd have found on a vintage Gbson or Fender so the SG should indicate what sort of headstock dimmensions they are designed for. The measurements are:

Gibson SG = 14mm thick
PRS Cu24 = 16.5mm thick
PRS SE P20 Parlor = 19mm thick

That's the problem right there. Those Gotoh's would work fine in the Gibson and the USA PRS. On this particular acoustic SE, Gotoh no go. Headstock is just to thick and the holes are right on the face. So that's the story.

Eddie Kim, maybe those gotohs would have worked on my acoustic guitar but the ones I was trying were not locking so I need to wind the string arounf the post and there is nowhere for it to go. And as you can see, even a 1mm headstock thickness is a big difference in the sizes we're talking about so maybe yours is just a little thinner. Glad they work for you.

 

[IgalPorat]

It comes down to headstock thickness. I used a caliper to measure the thickness of the headstocks on my 1990 Cu24, the new PRS SE P20 parlor guitar, and my Gibson SG. The Gotoh's have the identical post length as vintage style Kluson Deluxe tuners so they are really meant to replicate the ones you'd have found on a vintage Gbson or Fender so the SG should indicate what sort of headstock dimmensions they are designed for. The measurements are:

Gibson SG = 14mm thick
PRS Cu24 = 16.5mm thick
PRS SE P20 Parlor = 19mm thick

That's the problem right there. Those Gotoh's would work fine in the Gibson and the USA PRS. On this particular acoustic SE, Gotoh no go. Headstock is just to thick and the holes are right on the face. So that's the story.

Eddie Kim, maybe those gotohs would have worked on my acoustic guitar but the ones I was trying were not locking so I need to wind the string arounf the post and there is nowhere for it to go. And as you can see, even a 1mm headstock thickness is a big difference in the sizes we're talking about so maybe yours is just a little thinner. Glad they work for you.

Hey,
I was wondering about swapping my tuners as well and those look fantastic.
Would you mind photographing the headstock so that I can see how does it look like with the new tuners on?
Thanks!

 

[Slowhands]

I just posted photos in this thread: https://forums.prsguitars.com/threads/new-tuners-for-my-prs-p20e-parlor.51337/

 

[Rider1260]

You should be able to swap the shafts from the PRS tuners

 

[daverym46]

It comes down to headstock thickness. I used a caliper to measure the thickness of the headstocks on my 1990 Cu24, the new PRS SE P20 parlor guitar, and my Gibson SG. The Gotoh's have the identical post length as vintage style Kluson Deluxe tuners so they are really meant to replicate the ones you'd have found on a vintage Gbson or Fender so the SG should indicate what sort of headstock dimmensions they are designed for. The measurements are:

Gibson SG = 14mm thick
PRS Cu24 = 16.5mm thick
PRS SE P20 Parlor = 19mm thick

That's the problem right there. Those Gotoh's would work fine in the Gibson and the USA PRS. On this particular acoustic SE, Gotoh no go. Headstock is just to thick and the holes are right on the face. So that's the story.

Eddie Kim, maybe those gotohs would have worked on my acoustic guitar but the ones I was trying were not locking so I need to wind the string arounf the post and there is nowhere for it to go. And as you can see, even a 1mm headstock thickness is a big difference in the sizes we're talking about so maybe yours is just a little thinner. Glad they work for you.

Has PRS changed the thickness of the P20E as mine measures 16mm using a vernier/caliper? Not the 19mm you say. If this is the case will my PRS P20E design flawed tuners (3 have broken off in my hand now) be any easier to find decent replacements that will just drop in? Just hoping someone has found an easier solution to this problem. I can't find those golden gate f-2216's here in Australia.