Taming the distortion on Archon 50

[ranchak]

Pedal 101.... set the level to your needs...

True, the Revv G2 pedal I have does basically nothing unless it’s almost dimed on the volume. This pedal does not work well with the clean channel almost dimed.

It’s easier to ask questions before buying a pedal and finding out that it wasn’t what you were looking for

 

[pac90]

I remember this video from pete thorn about his pedal board with classic rock show, in front of his amp, which has 3 channels, the second being a dirty rhythm, which he uses for covers of the sounds your looking for. I saw him play, nailed every genre of classic rock

He does a demo of the bogner blue in front of clean channel around 15min mark, may help..

 

[bodia]

Great playing. I am assuming the pedal comes on during the Stray Cats?

Oops. I should have clarified.....that was a video forum brother Aristotle posted a few years ago. Anytime someone posts asking if the Archon does anything more that "metal" I hunt this video down. Thought it applied here, too.

 

[bodia]

Does the Bogner Burnley change your volume when you turn it on/off? I noticed that running the channel volume up so high that most pedals that I have tried are raising the volume drastically. But I am going to look at the Bogner pedal

Hmm...no, not really. But, I am not usually running at a high volume on the clean channel when I use the Burnley. It does give me something a step lower than what I get from the gain channel. It suits what I am looking for. YMMV.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

True, the Revv G2 pedal I have does basically nothing unless it’s almost dimed on the volume. This pedal does not work well with the clean channel almost dimed.

It’s easier to ask questions before buying a pedal and finding out that it wasn’t what you were looking for

I don't know anything about the Revv pedal... but I've never had an OD pedal that didn't boost volume WAY before the level was even at noon. Many of them are slamming the front end of the amp by 10:00 on the volume knob.

So that said, it's not the amp that is the issue in that instance. With most OD pedals, my preferred way to use them is to start with gain at noon and set level at unity. Then decide for what I want to use the pedal for, do I want more or less gain than that. Dial gain to taste. Then, turn the level up some to hit V1 harder. I rarely use an OD pedal at unity LEVEL. I do every once in a while for certain things, but not often. Most pedals and amps make better tone if you're pushing V1 a bit, IMHO.

I'm not sure if the pedal you're talking about is even an OD pedal but that's CRAZY if it is. The whole idea of an OD pedal is to boost the signal level to the point it clips. How do you make an OD pedal that doesn't boost the level significantly? I'll revisit this later today and read the whole thread and try to catch up so I can maybe help.

 

[ranchak]

I don't know anything about the Revv pedal... but I've never had an OD pedal that didn't boost volume WAY before the level was even at noon. Many of them are slamming the front end of the amp by 10:00 on the volume knob.

So that said, it's not the amp that is the issue in that instance. With most OD pedals, my preferred way to use them is to start with gain at noon and set level at unity. Then decide for what I want to use the pedal for, do I want more or less gain than that. Dial gain to taste. Then, turn the level up some to hit V1 harder. I rarely use an OD pedal at unity LEVEL. I do every once in a while for certain things, but not often. Most pedals and amps make better tone if you're pushing V1 a bit, IMHO.

I'm not sure if the pedal you're talking about is even an OD pedal but that's CRAZY if it is. The whole idea of an OD pedal is to boost the signal level to the point it clips. How do you make an OD pedal that doesn't boost the level significantly? I'll revisit this later today and read the whole thread and try to catch up so I can maybe help.

There is something definitely wonky with this pedal. I may send it back under warranty.

I use my pedals the same way as you. I look forward to any input or suggestions you may have

 

[ranchak]

I ordered 6L6s, and two more Tung Sol Gold Pin 5751s. Hopefully this will tame down the gain channel.

I was going to order a Burnley, but after reading a bunch of posts on another forum, I think this pedal might be a bit too much. Although I may try one in the future. I did order a Seymour Duncan 805, not sure what results I’ll get, but I will post back once it gets here.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

I always suggest 5751 over AY or AT, for reasons that jibe with what we’re PMing about. People like to just drop any AX tube in a preamp or PI stage, like they are a 12AX7 with less gain, but both of those tubes have differences that make then NOT ideal for drop in replacements in preamp and PI slots that were designed for 12AX7.

Plus, I still see a LOT of misunderstandings about less gain equaling more clean headroom. But, I especially recommend against multiple low gain tubes in a circuit. In my opinion, if it takes more than one low gain tube in the right spot to get the gain range down to what you want, then you’re just using the wrong amp. Two, maybe. But no more. Besides which, I’ll say again, while it may not look “cool” or seem “normal,” you can get great tones out of the Archon with the gain below 9:00. I’ve used 8:00 and 8:30 is extensively, but you can go lower than 8:00. Open up the master some and turn the gain way down. I have some high output pickups and even with a boost on, I can set it to light crunch.

 

[Guitargonaut]

Archon 50 owner as well. Drive channel volume at 9:00 - I've always gotten a nice crunchy drive by just turning my guitar's volume down.

 

[ranchak]

I always suggest 5751 over AY or AT, for reasons that jibe with what we’re PMing about. People like to just drop any AX tube in a preamp or PI stage, like they are a 12AX7 with less gain, but both of those tubes have differences that make then NOT ideal for drop in replacements in preamp and PI slots that were designed for 12AX7.

Plus, I still see a LOT of misunderstandings about less gain equaling more clean headroom. But, I especially recommend against multiple low gain tubes in a circuit. In my opinion, if it takes more than one low gain tube in the right spot to get the gain range down to what you want, then you’re just using the wrong amp. Two, maybe. But no more. Besides which, I’ll say again, while it may not look “cool” or seem “normal,” you can get great tones out of the Archon with the gain below 9:00. I’ve used 8:00 and 8:30 is extensively, but you can go lower than 8:00. Open up the master some and turn the gain way down. I have some high output pickups and even with a boost on, I can set it to light crunch.

I’m around 8:30 on the gain channel. I like what I’m getting from the amp. What I don’t like is the huge difference between the clean and gain channel. I want something in between. Hopefully the 805 or Burnley can fill the gap. Or if I can tame the gain channel I might get what I want.

 

[ranchak]

One thing I can’t try is getting the master volumes up. This might actually help the amp, but I have neighbors so.....

 

[SilverSurf9]

I'm curious if you ever tried the bogner ecstacy red pedal or the Friedman OD-BE pedal? There's a video of someone with a MT15 using those pedals on the clean channel and it sounds so good especially the ecstasy.

 

[JJJ]

Hi guys. I have an Archon 50 head that I run through an EVH 412 EL34 cab. Playing an SG with Seymour Duncan Saturday Night Special pick ups. I currently have the volume on the lead channel at about 8 o’clock. I tried installing Gold pin Tung Sol 5751 tubes in V1, V2 and V5. I didn’t really notice any reduced gain. I’m going to try an Electro Harmonix 12at7 in the PI, as mentioned in one of the posts here. I am also going to try Svetlana 6L6s.

I checked my bias, it was a bit cold at 28.5. Currently I have it set at 32. I’m going to bring it down to 30, but I don’t see any difference in gain at either bias settings.

What I’m after is a more softer gain, think early AC/DC, Bad Company.

I really like this amp, it’s probably one of the few tube amps that has tone and character at low volumes. I don’t much care for the 25 watt setting. I think the amp sound more natural at 50 watts.

I’ve read through the last 30 pages of posts and have seen that some guys believe changing the EL34s out for 6L6s or even KT66s.

Am I on the right track? Any other suggestions ? TIA

From what I have heard the PRS amps are pretty heavy on the gain. I mean you can turn your gain down, you can experiment with different valves (note, not all 12a*7 tubes are actually interchangeable) but if you're chasing acdc type tones, that's really a very low gain classic rock tone. You've got the right pickups, but you need something you can turn up real loud and get your breakup from pushing the amp, not multiple gain stages in a preamp.

IME 5751s do very little if you want lower gain. 12at7s are not always a suitable replacement because of the spec they're supposed to run at. 12ay7s can bring the gain down but they seem to really cut a lot of the high end character out of the amps in which I have tried them.

Your best bet is to use your clean channel and push it with a light drive pedal, or a boost, or something like someone else said. Or buy a marshall

 

[ranchak]

I'm curious if you ever tried the bogner ecstacy red pedal or the Friedman OD-BE pedal? There's a video of someone with a MT15 using those pedals on the clean channel and it sounds so good especially the ecstasy.

I'm not familiar with either of these pedals. I'll do some research and maybe give one or both a try

 

[ranchak]

From what I have heard the PRS amps are pretty heavy on the gain. I mean you can turn your gain down, you can experiment with different valves (note, not all 12a*7 tubes are actually interchangeable) but if you're chasing acdc type tones, that's really a very low gain classic rock tone. You've got the right pickups, but you need something you can turn up real loud and get your breakup from pushing the amp, not multiple gain stages in a preamp.

IME 5751s do very little if you want lower gain. 12at7s are not always a suitable replacement because of the spec they're supposed to run at. 12ay7s can bring the gain down but they seem to really cut a lot of the high end character out of the amps in which I have tried them.

Your best bet is to use your clean channel and push it with a light drive pedal, or a boost, or something like someone else said. Or buy a marshall

I may not be able to tame the lead channel and actually if I can get the right pedal to use on the clean channel I should be able to get what I'm looking for. I'm going to try the tube swaps and see what happens.

Now if someone would open up a pedal rental store modeled after Netflix (when they rented DVDs)..... EDITED, actually I guess there are companies that do rent pedals.

 

[SilverSurf9]

The first 30 seconds of this track is the kind of gain ive been looking for in a PRS amp... maybe this is what people have been looking for?
I wouldnt say classic rock or AC/DC but this:

 

[Deleted member 5962]

and another thing... when you say you want AC/DC and Bad Co tones, are you talking rhythm tones or lead tones? There's a difference. If you want the AC/DC rhythm tones, you need an open low/mid gain pedal. Not a "smooth" low gain pedal. You want the open crunch of Malcom's tone, you need something like the right version of a Barber Direct Drive, an OCD, an Amp 11 or some other pedal that can do the open crunch. I wouldn't suggest a Bogner Red, but a Blue might be exceptional. (Blue is the "Plexi" channel in pedal form)

If you want Malcom's tone, you're really trying to replication the PI crunch of a wide open power amp stage. When you hit a chord, it crunches, but doesn't sustain a lot because it's the punch of the notes that drives it to crunch and as soon as that volume falls off a little it's not overdrivin anymore. That's very hard to replicate in most multiple cascaded gain stage high gain amps, because it's not stacked pre-amp gain that gets that tone and feel, it's the PI being overdriven because the power amp is wide open, with not a lot of preamp overdrive.

 

[ranchak]

and another thing... when you say you want AC/DC and Bad Co tones, are you talking rhythm tones or lead tones? There's a difference. If you want the AC/DC rhythm tones, you need an open low/mid gain pedal. Not a "smooth" low gain pedal. You want the open crunch of Malcom's tone, you need something like the right version of a Barber Direct Drive, an OCD, an Amp 11 or some other pedal that can do the open crunch. I wouldn't suggest a Bogner Red, but a Blue might be exceptional. (Blue is the "Plexi" channel in pedal form)

If you want Malcom's tone, you're really trying to replication the PI crunch of a wide open power amp stage. When you hit a chord, it crunches, but doesn't sustain a lot because it's the punch of the notes that drives it to crunch and as soon as that volume falls off a little it's not overdrivin anymore. That's very hard to replicate in most multiple cascaded gain stage high gain amps, because it's not stacked pre-amp gain that gets that tone and feel, it's the PI being overdriven because the power amp is wide open, with not a lot of preamp overdrive.

The opening chords of Can’t Get Enough is the tone I’m seeking. I know it’s going to be hard to get due to the fact it’s a Marshall cranked.

I’m going to try the tubes and see what I can come up with

I did try the OCD on the clean channel, but that’s doesn’t seem to be the right pedal for the job. I figured out that there’s an issue with a cable on my pedal board. Strangely it only effects the Revv pedal, none of the other pedal in the chain are effected. I’ll get that sorted out over the weekend. I tried the Revv into the clean channel, but the distortion is harsh.

I’ll report back once I give the tubes a try

 

[bodia]

The opening chords of Can’t Get Enough is the tone I’m seeking. I know it’s going to be hard to get due to the fact it’s a Marshall cranked.

I’m going to try the tubes and see what I can come up with

I did try the OCD on the clean channel, but that’s doesn’t seem to be the right pedal for the job. I figured out that there’s an issue with a cable on my pedal board. Strangely it only effects the Revv pedal, none of the other pedal in the chain are effected. I’ll get that sorted out over the weekend. I tried the Revv into the clean channel, but the distortion is harsh.

I’ll report back once I give the tubes a try

How about one of these?

 

[ranchak]

Ok, so I got some tubes in yesterday. Not really sure what I was thinking (or lack of thinking), I ordered a 12AT7, two 5751s and two 6L6s. Why did I order 6L6s? I have no idea why. The Archon has 6L6s in it already, so..... Strike 1. I installed the 12AT7 tube in the PI, it really didn't do anything other than it was microphonic.... Strike 2. The 5751s didn't come in yet, but I did try the two that I have in V2 and V3. The distortion was slightly less, maybe a bit more compressed. I would think that at higher volumes you may notice the difference in the distortion. I'll try all four 5751s when I get them, but I don't think that any of this is going to get me where I want to be. For now i am going to take a step back and rethink all of this. Maybe the Archon isn't the amp for me, but I'm not at the point yet