Studio 101: Is it really this hard?? (AKA: I have no idea where to start)

[DougUSMC]

so you see what i was sayin. your salesman should be like ‘noo, dougusmc! don’t buy that hardware dongle fulla sparc chips, you’ll be forced to use an apple computer!’

I dig it, but I guess I'm asking "IS there a dongle fulla sparc chips", or were you just making a comment about salespeople in general?

The one Justin is using is no longer out, but you can still buy it from ~200. I’m guessing they have a similar current option. My thought was it would get you recording, teach you the way around an interface and DAW, and get a few decent recordings to boot! The plus is that it would be a low buy in for the experience, and something you can easily drag to a buddies house if you’re networking. If you’re sure what you want, you’d be totally right to bypass this and go to a UA, larger Presonus, Focusrite, or other option. I’m like that... buy once, cry once. But sometimes a small investment in gaining experience can end up being a money saver in the end.
That one I can’t help you with. I sent Justin an email to see what he was using. I’ll let you know!

I hear you, and TBH this is where I'm most torn. I'm not sure if I want to spend $200 on something that's not upgradable, and likely have to toss it to "grow beyond" it. The other option is spend a couple grand on something that I may only use once and then watch gather dust. It's pretty obvious to me that the UA opens the door to a lot more possibilities, I'm just not sure that I'd ever take advantage of them?

Uhhh.... everyone with a Mac?

I suppose I had that coming. After decades making fun of Mac users for spending 2x as much on a similar box w/a "cooler logo", I should have known there would eventually come a time when they were better suited for what I needed to do than an *ix box or PC.

USB 3 and 3.1 are more than capable for any kind of home recording.

I hear you, and I'd REALLY rather not have to replace the "more than capable" Dell I have that I was planning on building my studio around.

I was just reading up on the UA Apollo USB Duo, any ideas?

 

[dmatthews]

I dig it, but I guess I'm asking "IS there a dongle fulla sparc chips", or were you just making a comment about salespeople in general?


I hear you, and TBH this is where I'm most torn. I'm not sure if I want to spend $200 on something that's not upgradable, and likely have to toss it to "grow beyond" it. The other option is spend a couple grand on something that I may only use once and then watch gather dust. It's pretty obvious to me that the UA opens the door to a lot more possibilities, I'm just not sure that I'd ever take advantage of them?


I suppose I had that coming. After decades making fun of Mac users for spending 2x as much on a similar box w/a "cooler logo", I should have known there would eventually come a time when they were better suited for what I needed to do than an *ix box or PC.


I hear you, and I'd REALLY rather not have to replace the "more than capable" Dell I have that I was planning on building my studio around.

I was just reading up on the UA Apollo USB Duo, any ideas?

What do you see as the near and far requirement for simultaneous recording inputs?
Any chance you'd want to lay out more than 2 mics, or more than 4? Band situation?

 

[DougUSMC]

What do you see as the near and far requirement for simultaneous recording inputs?
Any chance you'd want to lay out more than 2 mics, or more than 4? Band situation?

Short term is one of a few scenarios:
- Me on mic, electric thru Ox Box
- Double mic acoustic
- Single or double acoustic with me on mic

Long term starts to talk about trying to record myself with another guitarist, followed (hopefully) by one or more of the kids on their own instruments. Not talking Partridge family, but more like something to geek out over together.

 

[Boogie]

I suppose I had that coming. After decades making fun of Mac users for spending 2x as much on a similar box w/a "cooler logo", I should have known there would eventually come a time when they were better suited for what I needed to do than an *ix box or PC.

It was always superior for commercial-grade applications. And this from someone who made A LOT of money on Windoz stuff over the past 30 years. Especially for audio and video purposes, all that investment in I/O and bus performance pays off instantly. My first Mac SE still works perfectly. My first PC was thrown away 20+ years ago.

However, a basic PC laptop can record 8 channels of audio with ease and for next to no $$. Ain’t too shabby.

 

[dmatthews]

Short term is one of a few scenarios:
- Me on mic, electric thru Ox Box
- Double mic acoustic
- Single or double acoustic with me on mic

Long term starts to talk about trying to record myself with another guitarist, followed (hopefully) by one or more of the kids on their own instruments. Not talking Partridge family, but more like something to geek out over together.

Kinda sounds like you're good with 4 inputs?

 

[RickP]

Kinda sounds like you're good with 4 inputs?

Agree, I would go with 4 minimum for his needs.

 

[dmatthews]

Agree, I would go with 4 minimum for his needs.

It sucks to be short an input.
That's why I went with the L-12.
But 4 inputs would do for most every situation at home anyway.

 

[RickP]

It sucks to be short an input.
That's why I went with the L-12.
But 4 inputs would do for most every situation at home anyway.

I agree, and jumping to an 8 might suck up 1/3 to 1/2 the budget so 4 sounds like a sweet spot.

 

[dmatthews]

I agree, and jumping to an 8 might suck up 1/3 to 1/2 the budget so 4 sounds like a sweet spot.

Spending Doug's money is fun!

 

[RickP]

Spending Doug's money is fun!

I’ll see your 4, and raise you 4 more!

 

[andy474x]

Ok, just had a good convo w/my sales guy @ a certain large online vendor (can we use company names here?).

Who knew that my insistence on NOT buying a Mac to run things on would be such a PITA???

Uhhh.... everyone with a Mac?

Sergio said the same thing to me when I was debating what to (Mac vs PC) do when my old HP laptop was in its death throes, against everything in my soul I went with a Mac and as much as I hate to admit it (and I really, really, REALLY hate it), I have been very happy with my experience. I hated it when people recommended Macs, because I felt like I could never find what I was looking for on them - files, photos, the whole thing just felt wrong. Come to find out, it's because I expected to have to work and dig for what I wanted, like I did on Windows, and on a Mac what your'e looking for is probably staring you right in the face.

Macs can be expensive, but I didn't have to go crazy, financially, to do it. If you could score a refurbished, or even used if from a reliable seller, you don't need tons of brand-new-computer horsepower to get up and running, far from it. I'm using my wife's old (2012 or 2013) Mac, put a RAM expansion and solid state hard drive (no tube hard drives, bummer ), reinstalled the OS (easy) and did the necessary upgrades and it runs literally like brand new. And the best part is Logic X. $200, no subscription fees, very user friendly, and nice stock plugins. Plus, it has a very intuitive virtual drummer feature, which adds lots of oomph to ideas in a hurry if you're not a drummer. The Superior Drummer samples probably sound better, but the stock Logic ones are good, and you can probably sub in those other samples later on. I would go with a slightly newer model Mac if you have the option, but don't spec a brand new machine, you don't need it. The experience of using Logic X, and the money you'll save using it, will mitigate your investment into the machine, and the stability... oh, the stability. You will lose many unsaved takes when your worn out Windows machine crashes.

I'll stop with that side of things now. I second what @RickP said about the top notch mics and gear, especially if you're doing acoustic guitars and vocals, they will expose the weaknesses of your studio space in an awful hurry. I primarily play and record electric, either with my Torpedo rig (like your Ox) or just close-mic'd cabinets, so I can get away with a lot more imperfections in my studio room, but you start doing acoustic guitar and vocals and you will quickly find sound reflections and frequency abnormalities that'll make your head spin, not to mention the sound of your microwave upstairs, or the garage door opening, or the furnace kicking on. So plan to put some considerable money and effort into acoustic treatment of your room, even a very basic home recording rig will not forgive a badly treated room, the stuff is surprisingly good... too good. It exposes the problems you didn't even know you had. Hence why I don't record vocals and acoustic very much!

Get good, affordable mics that are industry standards, you'll use them for a long time. I wouldn't go too crazy on an interface - get a decent one, but probably keep it under $1K. It'll be a long time before your skills exceed its capabilities, you'll probably dump it and lose some money, but if you spend more, you'll probably still dump it for something better and lose more money.

 

[jxe]

It was always superior for commercial-grade applications. And this from someone who made A LOT of money on Windoz stuff over the past 30 years. Especially for audio and video purposes, all that investment in I/O and bus performance pays off instantly. My first Mac SE still works perfectly. My first PC was thrown away 20+ years ago.

However, a basic PC laptop can record 8 channels of audio with ease and for next to no $$. Ain’t too shabby.

half like for the second paragraph.

 

[jxe]

i am not poor and i have used it all from protools hardware on a windows parts clone to logic on a macbook and it’s a wash, computers are not magic boxes, spec is spec — richard spec.

 

[DougUSMC]

It was always superior for commercial-grade applications..

Do you mean audio/video applications? Because every commercial application I've used for the last 20 years was built to run on a PC in an Enterprise environment. Every time we "had" to include a Mac into the mix "for the graphics team" (whose software I agree runs best on Mac chips), we had to throw in work-arounds to include their boxes.

Kinda sounds like you're good with 4 inputs?

Yeah, I think so. I'm trying to find that happy place where I can start w/4, but potentially add more w/o having to start over from scratch.

Sergio said the same thing to me when I was debating what to (Mac vs PC) do when my old HP laptop was in its death throes, against everything in my soul I went with a Mac and as much as I hate to admit it (and I really, really, REALLY hate it), I have been very happy with my experience. I hated it when people recommended Macs, because I felt like I could never find what I was looking for on them - files, photos, the whole thing just felt wrong. Come to find out, it's because I expected to have to work and dig for what I wanted, like I did on Windows, and on a Mac what your'e looking for is probably staring you right in the face.
...
Get good, affordable mics that are industry standards, you'll use them for a long time. I wouldn't go too crazy on an interface - get a decent one, but probably keep it under $1K. It'll be a long time before your skills exceed its capabilities, you'll probably dump it and lose some money, but if you spend more, you'll probably still dump it for something better and lose more money.

We have an older Macbook air, but I don't think it'll help. The only reason I'm thinking about bothering w/a Mac is so I can get into the UA stuff, which "requires" thunderbolt, and I don't think it'll have that?

The mics I'm looking at are in the $300-500 range. I'm thinking that's "good to start, but not crazy expensive". Am I in the right ballpark?

 

[alantig]

Just to add a bit to Andy's post, one other thing to consider w/the Mac is that, at some point, you will have to update the machine to run the latest version of Logic. Every so often, the new version of Logic requires a newer version of the OS, and once your machine falls out of the group that Apple deems worthy of the latest OS, you'll either have to run the an older version of Logic or bite the bullet and buy a new machine. Granted, it's not an 'every three years' thing, but it is out there. My Mac is almost 10 years old, I think, and the latest OS is the first I can't run (I believe). I'm probably a year or two away from needing a new one.

As for Thunderbolt, I think my external hard drive is Thunderbolt, but I can't swear to it. The USB stuff has been solid for my recording purposes.

 

[DougUSMC]

Just to add a bit to Andy's post, one other thing to consider w/the Mac is that, at some point, you will have to update the machine to run the latest version of Logic. Every so often, the new version of Logic requires a newer version of the OS, and once your machine falls out of the group that Apple deems worthy of the latest OS, you'll either have to run the an older version of Logic or bite the bullet and buy a new machine. Granted, it's not an 'every three years' thing, but it is out there. My Mac is almost 10 years old, I think, and the latest OS is the first I can't run (I believe). I'm probably a year or two away from needing a new one.

As for Thunderbolt, I think my external hard drive is Thunderbolt, but I can't swear to it. The USB stuff has been solid for my recording purposes.

Yeah, Apple is notorious for that. Windows took a lot of cr@p for how bloated the OS got, but that was mainly due to the fact that MS made the committment to supporting "everything on everything, forever". Apple does that opposite "with this update/patch/whatever, we no longer support..." That AND the fact that I can just crack it open, go down to a local shop (or NewEgg) and install upgraded components are what turned me off Apple products. And you're talking to a guy that got his first Amiga in 86.

So you can run Thunderbolt on a 10 year old mac? That gives me hope that I can resuscitate the Macbook we have and maybe use that...

 

[andy474x]

The mics I'm looking at are in the $300-500 range. I'm thinking that's "good to start, but not crazy expensive". Am I in the right ballpark?

Absolutely. There are several industry standard mics in that price range or even significantly less - Shure SM57 and SM7B, Sennheiser e906 and MD421 to name a few. And then there are many others that maybe aren’t long established standards, but very good nonetheless. For example, I use an AT4040 for my large diaphragm condenser. There are certainly better and more expensive mics, but it’s a solid mic and great value. The sE Electronics stuff is very affordable and has been getting lots of good reviews too, haven’t had a chance to try it.

 

[alantig]

So you can run Thunderbolt on a 10 year old mac? That gives me hope that I can resuscitate the Macbook we have and maybe use that...

I'll have to double-check the date on that, but I'm pretty sure it's mid-2011 or mid-2012. It's not a young 'un!

I used to be the same way about updates - I wanted to be able to do it all myself at the drop of a hat. Then I got older, and now I just like having things work. There's still the occasional hiccup on the Mac, but I've had more issues w/Windows stuff than w/the Mac. The most important thing is to have something you're comfortable with.

 

[DougUSMC]

Absolutely. There are several industry standard mics in that price range or even significantly less - Shure SM57 and SM7B, Sennheiser e906 and MD421 to name a few. And then there are many others that maybe aren’t long established standards, but very good nonetheless. For example, I use an AT4040 for my large diaphragm condenser. There are certainly better and more expensive mics, but it’s a solid mic and great value. The sE Electronics stuff is very affordable and has been getting lots of good reviews too, haven’t had a chance to try it.

Awesome, thanks. Looking at the HUGE range of options out there, it's hard to know what "midrange" really is! I'm looking @ a SE matched pair for my sm condensor mics.

I'll have to double-check the date on that, but I'm pretty sure it's mid-2011 or mid-2012. It's not a young 'un!

I used to be the same way about updates - I wanted to be able to do it all myself at the drop of a hat. Then I got older, and now I just like having things work. There's still the occasional hiccup on the Mac, but I've had more issues w/Windows stuff than w/the Mac. The most important thing is to have something you're comfortable with.

Interesting, it may be worth googling "how to boot/install a 10 yr old macbook that hasn't been powered on in 5 yrs".

 

[Tucson Thump]

I was just reading up on the UA Apollo USB Duo, any ideas?

I have an original silver TB Duo. It depends on if you are planning to use UAD plugins; if not I would guess that for PC use there are other USB3 interfaces that may give you more for the same price.

Sergio's advice is very sound.

The newer UAD convertors start at the Arrow and the more expensive rack Apollos, so getting a Duo won't get you necessarily better convertors than anything else in your price range (which may possibly have better convertors .... IDK for the record). Buying a Presonus interface with the software included may be a great idea.