Setting up my amp...

[ArnaudS1979]

https://tonesmiths.wordpress.com/2013/03/28/the-secret-to-quickly-dial-in-a-tube-amplifier/

I did a wee experiment today. I followed the technique in the link above to set up my tube amp sound. Previously, I had followed a variation of this technique whereby the guitar is plugged in. In a similar manner you are looking for the point in the pot sweep that has the most impact on the output although you rely on a note / chord being played instead of the natural hum of the amp. When I was told of this technique the first time, it was only applied to the tone controls, whereas you will see in the link that they use it for every control, gain and master volume included.

First off, I found the first version I heard about easier than the second for the tone knobs.

Second, I ended up with different settings. May have more to do with my ears than the variations between the techniques?!?

Third, the second technique made for a very loud setup - I live in a tenement with my 2 young boys. So it was a bit of a no go. The level of background noise when I plugged in the guitar was scary. So, I decided to keep all settings as they were apart from the volume, which I have dropped to a level where almost all of the background noise was gone. It was still fairly loud. So here is the interesting part, at least I think it is. I decided to set the volume control on the guitar to 0, and turn it up to get a sound I could use in the current situation. 'Historically', I would set up my amp with the guitar volume always 10; very rarely backing it off if I needed to for certain application. More recently, I would start with it at 7 and play around to get more or less grit. So it felt like a completely new approach to the whole setting up.

With the PRS, I ended up setting the volume around 4. Then, for a similar output with the LP Studio, I was barely past 1. Unfortunately, I only had a quick shot at it as family life quickly took over again (no bad thing per se). So I will need to make more experiment with this stuff.

Is it likely that I'll get more out of my amp tone-wise doing this or is it 6 and 2x3 with my old ways? Have I just discovered lukewarm water?

 

[László]

I found that turning up the amp and seeing what the dials do is an interesting way to learn it's capabilities, but in the real world, I dial in an amp with the guitar volume on 5-6 for a moderate "edge of breakup" tone, and then control the amp with the volume and tone controls on the guitar, old-school.

Clean tones by turning down the guitar volume, dirtier tones by turning the guitar volume up.

I even do this with 2 channel amps, but my main amps are PRS single channel models.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Steve Kimock has suggested a similar method at The Gear Page. He goes into more detail and then discusses it more in the thread. It's worth looking up. If I happen to find it, I'll post a link.

That said, I have never tried this with any of my bigger amps. Can't. Too loud for my environment. There is more to this how loud you can play at home thing, than just how far you can turn the amp up. Les has a room that's over 30 feet long. I'd kill for a place like that. My music room is 12x10! There is a point where I turn any of my amps up and suddenly while the amp SHOULD be sounding better, it sounds worse. The room is saturated. Too many reflections and too much smear. The room is loaded up. Not big enough to play the amp that loud. I've verified this by walking over and opening the door wide open and it does sound better, but it's still too much sound in too small of a room. Just before the amp hits the mode it should be great at, the room is overloaded. This is one BIG reason (IMHO) that modelers get as much love as they do. Many guys never get to open up even a mid sized amp, and if they do, it doesn't sound as good as it would in a bigger room. Not to mention how close we sit to amps in small rooms. Most guitar amps need some room to breath. I'm thinking 10' or more from the amp before it sounds it's best, and especially if you are mixing two different speakers in a cab. Need at least 8-10' for them to "blend." Again, IMHO.

I think that the next time my wife is gone for a week I'm going to move a couple amps to the living room for the week.

 

[László]

I think that the next time my wife is gone for a week I'm going to move a couple amps to the living room for the week.

I'd like to move my studio into the living room permanently. Because main floor is better than basement.

The chances of that happening are slim and none.

 

[ArnaudS1979]

Steve Kimock has suggested a similar method at The Gear Page. He goes into more detail and then discusses it more in the thread. It's worth looking up. If I happen to find it, I'll post a link.

That said, I have never tried this with any of my bigger amps. Can't. Too loud for my environment. There is more to this how loud you can play at home thing, than just how far you can turn the amp up. Les has a room that's over 30 feet long. I'd kill for a place like that. My music room is 12x10! There is a point where I turn any of my amps up and suddenly while the amp SHOULD be sounding better, it sounds worse. The room is saturated. Too many reflections and too much smear. The room is loaded up. Not big enough to play the amp that loud. I've verified this by walking over and opening the door wide open and it does sound better, but it's still too much sound in too small of a room. Just before the amp hits the mode it should be great at, the room is overloaded. This is one BIG reason (IMHO) that modelers get as much love as they do. Many guys never get to open up even a mid sized amp, and if they do, it doesn't sound as good as it would in a bigger room. Not to mention how close we sit to amps in small rooms. Most guitar amps need some room to breath. I'm thinking 10' or more from the amp before it sounds it's best, and especially if you are mixing two different speakers in a cab. Need at least 8-10' for them to "blend." Again, IMHO.

I think that the next time my wife is gone for a week I'm going to move a couple amps to the living room for the week.

That is very interesting. I should think though that my neighbours (and family) will reach saturation before the room! So I am probably not getting the best out of my amp(s). Having said that, I would rather play my amp over a modeller anytime. Maybe I haven't played the best ones but they always seem to fall flat to me, i.e. lack of dynamic.

In any case, coming back to my original point, your proposal LSchefman seems a good compromise to get a descent range of sounds playing at home. I would need to find a place where I can fully test this technique.

I'll take a look at the gear page see if I can find the thread from Steve Kimock.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

So, to clarify. I wasn't saying that modelers sound better, or as good as, tube amps. What modelers do though, is have their sound at virtually any volume. We need tubes cooking and speakers barking to achieve the cranked tones we love. Small tube amps may get cooking, but not be pushing the speaker hard, etc. etc... Modelers can model the pushed tubes and the pushed speakers, and then provide "that" tone at any volume level. That is one of the biggest reasons that they are so popular for home or lower volume players. Heck, I've had my Mark V for over a year now and I'm certain that I've never heard it at it's best, simply because it saturates my room before it gets to its sweet spot, volume-wise.

And if you don't know who Steve is, he's a pro player and one of the original guys that worked for Mesa Boogie. He's been featured in Guitar Player a couple times in the last couple years. And he's a pretty cool dude! Apologies if you already knew all that.

 

[László]

And if you don't know who Steve is, he's a pro player and one of the original guys that worked for Mesa Boogie. He's been featured in Guitar Player a couple times in the last couple years. And he's a pretty cool dude! Apologies if you already knew all that.

Kimock is a super-nice guy, very giving to other guitar players and musicians. He's performed with Phil Lesh and guys from the Dead; also with the Allmans, if my memory is correct. Tours a lot, does a lot of shows.

Great player, too.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Kimock is a super-nice guy, very giving to other guitar players and musicians. He's performed with Phil Lesh and guys from the Dead; also with the Allmans, if my memory is correct. Tours a lot, does a lot of shows.

Great player, too.

Yes, all that! He's always helping people in Mesa threads at TGP and others as well. He's definitely cool. And he's definitely a pro player as well.

 

[László]

Yes, all that! He's always helping people in Mesa threads at TGP and others as well. He's definitely cool. And he's definitely a pro player as well.

Back when I was playing Two-Rock amps, he was as well. One day I got a call out of the blue from him, because there had been a discussion about absolute polarity on TGP, and he wanted to have me check out what he found about using TR amps with cabinets that were wired with a different polarity. At the time I was using my TR heads with non TR cabs.

I wasn't even sure it was an issue that mattered.

Turned out he was dead right, and I could hear the difference once he pointed it out and I tested it. I'd call that "above and beyond" considering he and I didn't know each other beforehand.