PRS @ NAMM 2023?

[Rod/]

It's been a while since I've been to any trade show, but they could be weird. Like others, I think the pandemic accelerated the move away from them, but it's been happening since since the internet became ubiquitous.

A main reason is that relationship building and media attention are quicker and more effective through electronic communication, websites, releases, videos, etc. And those are always on things.

Another issue at music/sound related shows is the din. It's tough to have a serious discussion when having difficulty hearing one another. And just the sound of a large number of people moving and talking can create a lot of noise, before you get near the drum booths.

I'll guess consolidation of music retail has a large role, as well, as the remaining smaller, independent shops are not as important for many manufacturers as they once were. And important deals are unlikely to be done at a trade show.

And for those staffing a booth, how many of the people they speak with are current or potential direct customers (that is music retailers in NAMM's case) or represent a media outlet with a reliable audience/readership they want to reach?

Trade shows used to be effective for new, start-up businesses and ideas to show their goods & services, gain interest, and attract retailers. But there's the internet and even crowd-funding available now.

And finally, for a lot of companies, large and small, the cost of displaying (or even attending) trade shows, along with hotels, meals, schmoozing, displays, pressure to compete or outdo a competitor's display, hiring artists, models (in some cases), and all makes it a tough sell. Especially when you're talking to a nerdy audio engineer/jazz musician dude with thick glasses and wondering why his nametag says "Lori." (Lori and I would switch to see sales pitches get slightly thrown).

You’ve explained it very well.. thanks….

I'm obviously stuck in the past.

I like going into a physical music store and browsing. I like playing the instruments, checking stuff out in person, etc. It's a fun way to kill a little time, and often I find something I think is worth owning.

I wouldn't have been remotely interested in a PRS if I hadn't played one first; I was looking for a Les Paul the day I discovered PRS. I've also found other brands I've liked playing them in person, and don't even get me started on how online demos of synths are irrelevant, because they're all about the modulation, feel, oscillators in person, controls, etc.

And amps! In-person is the best way to figure out whether an amp is for you.

I want to eyeball and feel how well something's made, how it'll hold up, and look at the materials in-person.

Often too, something I might have otherwise ordered via the internet turns out to be pretty damn cheesy in person, and that's worth knowing, too! If a mic or other studio gear looks and feels like it's junk, all the online demos in the world won't make me buy it. Physical quality can't be judged remotely.

If I was a person selling gear, I'd want to get hands-on with it to figure out how my customers might react to it. That can't be done on social media. I'm not interested as a player in going to a NAMM, crowds turn me off when I'm evaluating gear. But if I were a retailer, I'd go.

So I think the world is worse off, not better, when things like NAMM shrink/disappear.

I couldn’t agree with you more…..

 

[Stray Strummer]

When Marshall, Fender, Gibson and PRS all say no to NAMM, it's DOA. The expense doesn't justify itself, except to get extremely drunk nights partying with Reinhold Bogner.

An article in Guitar World yesterday featured Fender CEO Andy Mooney and his explanation as to why Fender and those mentioned above no longer view NAMM as a must-do. Too bad, because I finally found and "in" to the show and it's only 15 miles away. Might still try to take advantage of the opportunity anyway.

Fender CEO Andy Mooney explains why Fender isn’t at this year’s NAMM – and what needs to change before it returns

The company's head honcho said he'll “never say never” about returning to the trade show, but it doesn't look likely any time soon

news.yahoo.com

 

[11top]

I’m saddened by its demise. Prior to the pandemic (F U Covid), I went every year (14 straight?). I looked forward to seeing friends from around the globe that I only had the chance to see there. Boogie (RIP), Markie, and I went religiously. I have fond memories of “building” instruments there, and moments/legends like Hansomatic sleeping in a truck bed in a sh*t hole motel parking lot in downtown Anaheim. Saw MANY great rock shows/rock stars at company parties, too.
I’m going to miss the hell outta that annual trek.

 

[andy474x]

I'm obviously stuck in the past.

I like going into a physical music store and browsing. I like playing the instruments, checking stuff out in person, etc. It's a fun way to kill a little time, and often I find something I think is worth owning.

I wouldn't have been remotely interested in a PRS if I hadn't played one first; I was looking for a Les Paul the day I discovered PRS. I've also found other brands I've liked playing them in person, and don't even get me started on how online demos of synths are irrelevant, because they're all about the modulation, feel, oscillators in person, controls, etc.

And amps! In-person is the best way to figure out whether an amp is for you.

I want to eyeball and feel how well something's made, how it'll hold up, and look at the materials in-person.

Often too, something I might have otherwise ordered via the internet turns out to be pretty damn cheesy in person, and that's worth knowing, too! If a mic or other studio gear looks and feels like it's junk, all the online demos in the world won't make me buy it. Physical quality can't be judged remotely.

If I was a person selling gear, I'd want to get hands-on with it to figure out how my customers might react to it. That can't be done on social media. I'm not interested as a player in going to a NAMM, crowds turn me off when I'm evaluating gear. But if I were a retailer, I'd go.

So I think the world is worse off, not better, when things like NAMM shrink/disappear.

I’m with you… but apparently we’re a dying breed. At least when it comes to higher end gear, hands-on just isn’t a possibility unless one lives near one of the handful of high end shops around the country (or world).

My local PRS dealer has stopped stocking Core models, not that they had a ton before, but they usually had a handful. Same with amps, they rarely stock anything that costs more than $1500 or so. I assume the expensive stuff just sits too long. And the local Mesa dealer got the boot with a capital G. Elderly was a decent shop, too, but they’ve massively cut back on their high end inventory.

I was pretty excited when a DG 2x12 showed up at the PRS dealer, but the head never materialized, either that or it sold so fast I never saw it. Really wanted to try that one.

I think you and I both have a certain set of brands we use, because we know the particulars will be in order, it’s just a question of what the personality of a specific piece of gear will be. We have to roll the dice on that.

 

[alantig]

Boogie (RIP), Markie, and I went religiously.

So robes, Gregorian chanting, passing collection plates, filing for tax-free status?

 

[11top]

So robes, Gregorian chanting, passing collection plates, filing for tax-free status?

Don't forget praying to the porcelain god.

 

[alantig]

Don't forget praying to the porcelain god.

I guess you've moved past the sacrificing virgins stage. Or are they too hard to find nowadays?

 

[tbp0701]

I’m with you… but apparently we’re a dying breed. At least when it comes to higher end gear, hands-on just isn’t a possibility unless one lives near one of the handful of high end shops around the country (or world).

My local PRS dealer has stopped stocking Core models, not that they had a ton before, but they usually had a handful. Same with amps, they rarely stock anything that costs more than $1500 or so. I assume the expensive stuff just sits too long. And the local Mesa dealer got the boot with a capital G. Elderly was a decent shop, too, but they’ve massively cut back on their high end inventory.

I was pretty excited when a DG 2x12 showed up at the PRS dealer, but the head never materialized, either that or it sold so fast I never saw it. Really wanted to try that one.

I think you and I both have a certain set of brands we use, because we know the particulars will be in order, it’s just a question of what the personality of a specific piece of gear will be. We have to roll the dice on that.

Derailing a bit, what is Elderly like now? It was a favorite place to shop around 15 years ago and had fantastic service, but at least the online presence in recent years hasn't looked the same. I suppose consigning used instruments was a major portion of their business, but I don't imagine many doing that these days. Still worth visiting in person if within a reasonable driving distance?

 

[andy474x]

Derailing a bit, what is Elderly like now? It was a favorite place to shop around 15 years ago and had fantastic service, but at least the online presence in recent years hasn't looked the same. I suppose consigning used instruments was a major portion of their business, but I don't imagine many doing that these days. Still worth visiting in person if within a reasonable driving distance?

Their stock of pretty much everything isn’t what it used to be, and the atmosphere in the store is… weird. Last couple times I’ve been there, some very strange characters just loitering in the store. To be quite honest, literally stinking up the place and just not making it anywhere I want to be. Granted, I don’t go often, maybe that was a fluke.

Specifically where PRS is concerned, they’ve taken a major dive. Used to be they had a bit of everything, from Core down to SE, both new and used. I got my Mira 25th there probably 8 or so years ago, which is a pretty rare guitar. Now it’s exclusively SE except for a couple used/consignment core models. They were the best stocked Core retailer within decent driving distance from me (Grand Rapids).

They still have a handful of cool vintage guitars and amps, but that’s about it. I wouldn’t go far out of your way. I’d stop occasionally if I went that way more, but I mostly stick to the west side.

 

[tbp0701]

Their stock of pretty much everything isn’t what it used to be, and the atmosphere in the store is… weird. Last couple times I’ve been there, some very strange characters just loitering in the store. To be quite honest, literally stinking up the place and just not making it anywhere I want to be. Granted, I don’t go often, maybe that was a fluke.

Specifically where PRS is concerned, they’ve taken a major dive. Used to be they had a bit of everything, from Core down to SE, both new and used. I got my Mira 25th there probably 8 or so years ago, which is a pretty rare guitar. Now it’s exclusively SE except for a couple used/consignment core models. They were the best stocked Core retailer within decent driving distance from me (Grand Rapids).

They still have a handful of cool vintage guitars and amps, but that’s about it. I wouldn’t go far out of your way. I’d stop occasionally if I went that way more, but I mostly stick to the west side.

Thanks. That's too bad, as it was such a cool place.

 

[11top]

I guess you've moved past the sacrificing virgins stage. Or are they too hard to find nowadays?

Virgins are overrated.

 

[loocnmad]

COVID is absolutely NOT to blame. All it did was slightly accelerate the inevitable. Until 2016 I worked for a company that serviced large public events. Even back then the biggest trade shows already had a huge demand to push into virtual conference options.

The combined cost and logistics of working with airlines, hotels, decorators, advertisers, caterers, concessions, custodial staff, onsite internet and tech services, etc is an absolute nightmare.

The whole point of NAMM was to allow retailers to see the latest offerings and submit their orders ahead the release. Companies can now email a pdf of hi-rez pics. The retailer can buy a few samples for a fraction of attending a conference without disrupting their business. For smaller things like pedals, a short video can be enough. It's far more cost effective for everyone involved.

Consolidation in the industry both from manufacturers and retailers is another nail in the coffin. The big stores took on ungodly sums of debt so they could run most of the other competition out of business. There aren't many different buyers left anymore. The big ones have gotten so big, they can sometimes even dictate what the manufacturers are going to release, defeating the whole purpose.

And let's not forget good old fashioned corporate dysfunction and greed. Before inflation or COVID I was talking to the owner of a small mom and pop shop. He and his wife own and run everything in their store. There was a particular brand, something like a jumbled "biGson", who would only sell to them if they became a certified dealer. To become a dealer, "biGson" required a minimum order worth over 6 months of their gross revenue. What is the motivation to view products at a trade show when the business model is set up to specifically exclude your market?

 

[alantig]

Virgins are overrated.

Can't argue with that. They can be annoying, too. Which is why the sacrificing thing probably got started.

 

[JMintzer]

I guess you've moved past the sacrificing virgins stage. Or are they too hard to find nowadays?

In California? Near LA? They are unicorns...

 

[Stephen J.]

So, nothing?

 

[CVS]

OK - I went to NAMM yesterday. The last time I was there was about 4 years ago. Not as crowded as it was 4 years ago and on;y 3 days long this year vs 4 days in the past. The big guitar, amp and pedal brands were clearly not there (for the most part), so I had more time to look around and touch and feel brands of guitars and amps that I never had the time to try out in the past. I must say I was quite surpised at the quality level of many of the guitars that I put my fingers on. I hope it comes back strong next January, even though for reasons discussed in the thread, it may not happen. I am sure all of the big names will be watching each other to see who if anyone commits to go next year.