Next Generation Collectors Guitars

[ESPImperium]

I was reading my copy of "The PRS Guitar Book: A Complete History of Paul Reed Smith Guitars" recently and came across the Singlecut Satins and the fact that Dave Burrluck said they could become the next generation collectors guitars as they are so rare, or something similar to that.

I was thinking last night when lying awake in bed thinking about what would be the next collectable guitars that were only available for a short time as we know PRS will cut a guitar if they are not selling enough in volume. I was thinking about models that have been released since about 2008 as the book has not been updated since about then, so there is about 7 years of models.

I was thinking about some of these:

NF3
DC3
315
25th Anniversary McCarty
Studio 22

What models would be considered if the book was to be updated, or for those who want to collect and play a rare, or rare enough guitar?

 

[Texas_minor_blues]

315? did you mean 305?

 

[Raymond]

With the option of private stock, surely you can get any of these put of production guitar anytime?

 

[ESPImperium]

I did mean 305. Im excluding the Private Stocks as thats just plain cheating. Just regular production lines, Artist Packs are also cheating as well.

 

[Whitecat]

I think the honest fact is that almost nothing they make now should be considered 'collectible' and will not appreciate in real terms. The stuff that had comparatively short runs like the NF3 and 305 - well, you gotta remember they are discontinued because no one is buying them. What will suddenly make them desirable in 20 or 30 years?

If you bought into the early days of PRS in the mid 80s then you just might have the closest things to 'investment grade' that will ever come out of the company. Those do actually seem to be going up.

Recent stuff though, no. Private Stock is the worst in some ways regarding resale, despite having the highest price tag.

In terms of other recent rarities, a couple examples of the Paul's 28 have failed to sell recently at we below their retail selling price.

In some ways it's Paul's continual quest for improvement that kills the aftermarket. Remember when 57/08s were super exclusive and only available on a few expensive "limited editions"? They are now on the majority of the thousands of guitars they make every month. Like with F1 teams that also build road cars, the tech and the progress trickles downwards.

So anyway, I'm wary of anyone who says that these are 'investment grade' - the truth is, virtually nothing made in the past 28 years is going up in value.

This is not just PRS - it goes for almost any high-end instrument. Fender, Gibson, they all have exactly the same issue. Early examples are worth more than people paid in the first place. Later ones simply are not and possibly never will be. When the boomers are extinct, the era of the six-figure Les Paul will go with them. The one exception where "oddball" guitars suddenly go up in value is when a famous artist latches onto them and makes great records and is seen playing live - but unless Jack White or Jonny Greenwood pick up an NF3 soon, I don't see it happening with PRS!

But - back to PRS - let's not forget that they are amazing guitars. Don't buy one to put away and hope you can retire on it - Paul & the team would probably be saddened by that anyway. They are made to be played, enjoyed, and passed along when your time on earth is done. That should be the legacy...

 

[László]

But - back to PRS - let's not forget that they are amazing guitars. Don't buy one to put away and hope you can retire on it - Paul & the team would probably be saddened by that anyway. They are made to be played, enjoyed, and passed along when your time on earth is done. That should be the legacy...

Well stated.

I hope those who are investing in PRS hoping they'll be collectible guitars do extremely well, don't get me wrong! Guys like Markie and Hans who have some wonderful instruments, be well, live long and prosper! I hope they go way up in value!

For me, though, I just want to enjoy mine in the time I have left on the planet, and my hope is that my kids/grandkids enjoy them down the road.

 

[veinbuster]

Guys like Markie and Hans who have some wonderful instruments, be well, live long and prosper! I hope they go way up in value!

I know there are some out there buying in the hope of turning a profit. I've always felt these two buy the guitars to enjoy them. I may have a couple that I could profit from some day, but that was never a consideration when I bought. In fact, if I caught myself thinking about turning a profit on a purchase, I would probably use that as an indicator that I was buying for the wrong reason and leave for someone else.

 

[Curt Musgrove]

According to Amazon.com, the 4th edition of the book comes out in November.

 

[jfb]

I know there are some out there buying in the hope of turning a profit. I've always felt these two buy the guitars to enjoy them. I may have a couple that I could profit from some day, but that was never a consideration when I bought. In fact, if I caught myself thinking about turning a profit on a purchase, I would probably use that as an indicator that I was buying for the wrong reason and leave for someone else.

It's a lesson that's been tough for me to learn. I'm much happier in the long run buying for reasons other than profit.

 

[Herr Squid]

Well remember, that it takes a small supply and a large demand for something to make it valuable.

In the case of the Les Pauls, they got wildly popular due to the British blues/rock thing in the late 60's, That was after they had been out of production for years due to low demand. Once they became the gold standard of electric guitars, since they "didn't make them like they used to," the value of the 50's Les Pauls shot through the roof.

The PRS models that the OP mentioned are scarce, but they're not in high demand. Now if somebody does something truly remarkable with one of them, that couldn't be done with any other guitar, and says "oh yeah, those old PRS _____'s are tha bomb! Can't live without 'em" then they'll probably appreciate a bunch. But that's the kind of thing it'll take.

 

[Raymond]

Well remember, that it takes a small supply and a large demand for something to make it valuable.

In the case of the Les Pauls, they got wildly popular due to the British blues/rock thing in the late 60's, That was after they had been out of production for years due to low demand. Once they became the gold standard of electric guitars, since they "didn't make them like they used to," the value of the 50's Les Pauls shot through the roof.

The PRS models that the OP mentioned are scarce, but they're not in high demand. Now if somebody does something truly remarkable with one of them, that couldn't be done with any other guitar, and says "oh yeah, those old PRS _____'s are tha bomb! Can't live without 'em" then they'll probably appreciate a bunch. But that's the kind of thing it'll take.

I really don't see it happening though. There are no other guitars that has the same almost mythical perception as those late 50's LPs.

Personally, I don't think they are any better than say a good copy of a custom shop LP reissue.

 

[László]

I really don't see it happening though. There are no other guitars that has the same almost mythical perception as those late 50's LPs.

I think it's partly because so few were made, and some very famous rock stars glommed onto them after Clapton started playing one.

When they reintroduced the model in 1968 or so, one of the guys in my band special ordered a Black Beauty Custom with an ebony board. And I have to say that it was such an amazing guitar that to this day I remember how it sounded, played and even how the fingerboard felt. I spent some quality time with that thing.

It was incredible. Stunning in every way. And the attention to detail and finish were world standard at the time.

I have played several 50s LPs as well, and the sound was darn good, but they were old guitars with aged wood, and you'd kind of expect that. But this '68 Custom was one of a handful of the greatest new guitars I've ever played. And certainly the best I'd ever played up to that time.

They are absolutely not making them like that any more.

And yeah, great as that guitar was, I think I'd still prefer the PRS 245, but we wouldn't be comparing apples to apples. Because, you know...1968.

 

[CHARISMAFIRE]

I know a guy who plays a custom 22 with the 3 soapbars. That one was only made for a couple years, and is more special than I think he knows.

 

[aduayer]

I really don't think PRS guitar are good investment. They are awesome instruments, but I agree with the guys who said that even they stop producing and/or it's a very limited offer of some model, the demand for it should increase so the price of that specific item too.
Besides, those guitars just keep getting better. I have the opportunity to play some PRS made in the 1990's and 2000's and I like the new ones much better. Matter of fact, every time I buy a new PRS, I kind feel I need the "new version" of that one in every couple of years.
I think that's the kind of thing happened with Gibson and Fender back in the days, they were improving every year.

 

[garrett]

I think the golden age as far as PRS collectibility is long over. Nothing made in Stevensville will ever have the same collector swagger as the earlier guitars. The Private Stock program has flooded the market with high-end one-offs, so the rarity isn't much of a factor there.

Of course it's no reflection on the quality, I think it's just that so many have been made.

 

[AP515]

I agree with most of the comments if we are looking at the current state of the industry, BUT... There is another part to consider. We are living in the era when PRSH is the driving force behind the changes. When he retires, when all the current generation of minds retire. 50 years from now when the company has been run by different leaders, when mahogany is a protected species, when gold is $50,000 an ounce so there is no gold plating, will the "then" quality of the guitars make the ones created now look like a golden age? You have to look far down the road, but rarety could mean more than just the number created. Different generations may make a world of difference if the availability, quality, or inovation stop. Of course the opposite is also true. Will the guitar become like the upright piano; you can't give them away!

 

[rugerpc]

Collecting guitars and collecting guitars as investments are two very different things.

I can see dedicated PRS collectors searching for models with short production runs just for sh!ts and giggles, but as investments, they're going to me losers in the long term. Even short runs like the Corvette Series in the DuPont paints will at best hold their original (street) value because the demand just isn't there. I'll have a better understand of that particular market soon, because I have one I'm going to list. It's nice and I think it is cool, but I don't play it.

Add to that, PRSh is still with us (and will be for some time we hope) and the company is still cranking out guitars. Guitars that are arguably getting better and better. That kinds of kills the rarity aspect of things, even for discontinued models.

But, people collect everything, and I do mean everything. There will always be a market for almost anything, even upright pianos. You just have to accept that the market may be exceedingly small and disappointing.

 

[ESPImperium]

I think that the collectors term has two meanings, and both have their wires crossed no matter the brand.

There are two collectors, the Player Collector and the Investment Collector. The former is an enthusiast who believes in the brand and will use the brand to varying extremes, to Marvel or DC Comic guys that may be to dress up as Thor or Iron Man or go to Comic Con once a year, or to collect figures etc... The Player Collector will take the guitars he/she owns and use them to play for their own enjoyment or gig with them to me. Like that BMW owner who will only drive BMWs, but also use a 2013 5 series for their job but also have a 1979s 318i in the garage for weekend trips down to the coast with the Mrs or Mr (depending on preference).

The Investment Collector is someone with too much money and someone who dosnt have the brands best interest at heart, someone who buys loads of instruments to make a profit. Going back, that DC Comic guy who has the #1 comic in a plastic sleeve and will have it in a safe at home, only letting it see the light of day once a year to show to the children. Or that BMW collector who buys up as many of the 318is as he can as he thinks he can restore them all to concourse standard and turn a six figure profit in doing so, but instead they put them into a storage warehouse where the cars just rot to death.

I am looking at the next generation for the Player Collector, the guitars that will be played and cherished, not bought and put into a vault or room to lay unplayed and unloved.

 

[shinksma]

I agree with most of the comments if we are looking at the current state of the industry, BUT... There is another part to consider. We are living in the era when PRSH is the driving force behind the changes. When he retires, when all the current generation of minds retire. 50 years from now

...I'll be dead, and I currently have no offspring. So I buy guitars for me to enjoy. My Cu24 will probably diminish in value over the years - it is nowhere near mint, and isn't special in any particular way.

Nonetheless, that's just me and my own private world. Others will, and should, disagree. So I don't disagree with where you then went with the rest of your post:

when the company has been run by different leaders, when mahogany is a protected species, when gold is $50,000 an ounce so there is no gold plating, will the "then" quality of the guitars make the ones created now look like a golden age? You have to look far down the road, but rarety could mean more than just the number created. Different generations may make a world of difference if the availability, quality, or inovation stop. Of course the opposite is also true. Will the guitar become like the upright piano; you can't give them away!

I have a friend who has a trio of Gibson Mandos from the 1920s (I think): Mandolin, Mandola, Mandocello. They are undoubtedly special, and no matter what Gibson produced today, they wouldn't be able to re-create those instruments as-is, and maybe not even if you waited 90 years.

And yeah, the PRSi with Brazzy boards, and other exotic or near-exotic woods, will be very likely prized items in 30, 40, or 50 years (heck they already are to some extent). But I think most (?) people who bought Brazzy boards did so for the qualities the wood brings, not as an investment.

I do find myself interested in some of the oddball models not because of their collectibility or rarity but because, well, they're so oddball.

 

[markie]

Player.........













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