My on-again, off-again, love-affair with Compressor-Sustainers

[shinksma]

Last night I gave my HXDA (with new tubes and fuses!) a minor workout, playing with my WL509 (maple neck&FB, Swamp Ash body with maple top). Decided I was feeling "Gilmour-ish", and was messing with the intro to Coming Back to Life (from the post-Roger Division Bell album). Nice clean signal, with some delay, into the HXDA, guitar volume knob turned down a bit to keep it clean. Positions 4 and 1, with coil taps engaged.

Hmm, needs a bit more "oomph". Nope, too much. Oh wait, Gilmour uses compressor/sustainers. So I put it into the loop (Boss CS-3), and ta-da! There's that nice long note that lingers and almost blooms!

For years all I did was use a CS-3 into a HM-2 into a DD-2 for 80% of my "tones", but I was a huge Floyd-Droid. When I started to branch out and explore other stuff, I stopped using the CS-3 - it squished the signal too much, even when lightly engaged, or just seemed "not right".

Every few years, I get it back into the pedal chain. Works great for some Gilmour stuff. Then I decide I am bored with it, because it covers up any picking dynamics, so it gets relegated to "almost never used".

I need to work with it more, and find that happy medium (vs a grumpy clairvoyant) where I remember to use it when appropriate, and I remember to not use it when inappropriate.

So I will keep it in the loop, and see if I can finally learn to use it with restraint - but actually use it!

 

[sergiodeblanc]

I just tried taking mine off the board and hate it. It needs to go back on pronto!

 

[Ovibos]

I have a Dyna Comp clone, but basically got it to even out my signal when running into an EHX C9 Organ Machine because the variable attack made the organ sounds unpredictable.

 

[shinksma]

I just tried taking mine off the board and hate it. It needs to go back on pronto!

What % would say it is engaged? Do you have it on 90-100% of the time, or more like 50/50, or ... ?

I really do like what it does for certain tones, I just found I was over-using it (all those years ago) so I stopped using it for almost everything just to "get that monkey off my back".

 

[sergiodeblanc]

What % would say it is engaged? Do you have it on 90-100% of the time, or more like 50/50, or ... ?

I really do like what it does for certain tones, I just found I was over-using it (all those years ago) so I stopped using it for almost everything just to "get that monkey off my back".

It was always on, with a fairly low(er-ish) 3:1 ratio. I think I took it out for the same reasons as you, something about touch dynamics for my dirt and envelope filter. don’t know what I was thinking really, I mean I do know but I was wrong.

 

[bodia]

Last night I gave my HXDA (with new tubes and fuses!) a minor workout, playing with my WL509 (maple neck&FB, Swamp Ash body with maple top). Decided I was feeling "Gilmour-ish", and was messing with the intro to Coming Back to Life (from the post-Roger Division Bell album). Nice clean signal, with some delay, into the HXDA, guitar volume knob turned down a bit to keep it clean. Positions 4 and 1, with coil taps engaged.

Hmm, needs a bit more "oomph". Nope, too much. Oh wait, Gilmour uses compressor/sustainers. So I put it into the loop (Boss CS-3), and ta-da! There's that nice long note that lingers and almost blooms!

For years all I did was use a CS-3 into a HM-2 into a DD-2 for 80% of my "tones", but I was a huge Floyd-Droid. When I started to branch out and explore other stuff, I stopped using the CS-3 - it squished the signal too much, even when lightly engaged, or just seemed "not right".

Every few years, I get it back into the pedal chain. Works great for some Gilmour stuff. Then I decide I am bored with it, because it covers up any picking dynamics, so it gets relegated to "almost never used".

I need to work with it more, and find that happy medium (vs a grumpy clairvoyant) where I remember to use it when appropriate, and I remember to not use it when inappropriate.

So I will keep it in the loop, and see if I can finally learn to use it with restraint - but actually use it!

You need to check one of these out....

 

[László]

You probably all know this, but for those who aren’t familiar with the world of compression, maybe this will be interesting.

Compressors do several things: They control transients and decrease the volume of loud sounds; they increase the volume of soft sounds (such as the volume of notes as they decay; this is where the ‘sustain’ part comes in); and they even out the volume of both by reducing the peaks and valleys of the note envelope as the string’s amplitude changes while a note is held.

A good compressor can be set to preserve the note attack, and still sustain, if it’s set up to do so (and of course, everything also depends on how good the device is, but that’s another topic; most pedal compressors have fairly extreme personalities, while a few are very neutral).

The more compression that’s dialed in, the “firmer” the note, but this comes at the expense of dynamic range, which it’s supposed to.

The slower you set the attack, the more the pick transient will get through. The faster you set it, the less pick transient will get through. The longer you set the release, the longer the compressor will sustain the level. So, set to a fast attack, you’re going to get that “squish” some players want, and set to a faster release time, it can be all about that “chickin pickin’” thing country players love, where the note decays more quickly to be ready for the next note.

Unfortunately, it can be a tall order for an inexpensive little box that sits on a pedalboard, powered by only 9 or 18 volts, to be transparent, not too “grabby”, etc.

Be it a hardware or software compressor, having a mix control that lets you balance the uncompressed signal with the compressed signal can be a great solution for folks who need a certain amount of compression, but still want a natural sound.

I haven’t used a Boss compressor in 20 years, so I have no idea if it has one, but there are some excellent compressors out there that have this feature, and it can really help in achieving that balance.

 

[Rusty Chops]

Doing some demo studio work in the 1980’s burned me out on compression.

Back then every converted tractor shed was a four channel TEAC reel-to-reel based “studio,” mostly used for vanity projects.

The problem was that those machines couldn’t really get what you were hearing down on the tape easily, so between the narrow tracks and noise-reduction gear everybody seemed to just process everything until it sounded like a big time L.A. studio. Ursa Major Space Stations, Eventide EQ, Over Easy compression, etc etc etc...

All that FM radio announcer compression gave me ear fatigue!

A little was good for taming a Tele rudeness and adding clean sustain, but I got burned out on that too.

Nowadays I’m pretty much a clean into a clean amp sorta guy: maybe a bit of hair sometimes, but that’s about it.

 

[László]

Back then every converted tractor shed was a four channel TEAC reel-to-reel based “studio,” mostly used for vanity projects.

The problem was that those machines couldn’t really get what you were hearing down on the tape easily, so between the narrow tracks and noise-reduction gear everybody seemed to just process everything until it sounded like a big time L.A. studio. Ursa Major Space Stations, Eventide EQ, Over Easy compression, etc etc etc...

Well, of course, now it’s everyone’s basement or bedroom with a computer, instead of the tool shed! And no doubt vanity projects are still the norm, and that’s if the majority of folks even bother to hand out their recordings to friends - I doubt that most do more than just noodle for their own amusement on the shiny cool gear they buy.

As with anything else, it’s not what one buys - even back then - it’s got an awful lot to do with the skill of the person using it.

Those 4 track TEAC machines were actually pretty capable in the right hands, with the right front end mixers, mic preamps, etc. Of course most folks didn’t have access to the best front end gear back then, so the quality of the tape machine wasn’t much of a factor. And by the time the tracks were bounced a few times (necessary with a 4 track in most cases) the fidelity was necessarily reduced. The skill of the person operating the gear was, and is still, the biggest limiting factor.

1/4” 4 track meant that each track was .06” in width. A two inch 24 track machine only has .08” in width per track, not significantly better as a medium. Track width has a lot to do with tape machine fidelity.

And the old TEAC specs weren’t all that bad. There was more mechanical wow and flutter, because the machines weren’t built to the level of a Studer, and the tape path wasn’t servo-controlled, but in terms of frequency response, the specs were quite good, and in some cases better than today’s digital recorders. Teac’s pro division was Tascam, and the machines were good enough that Willie Nelson had Tascam recorders and a Tascam console in his studio in the 80s.

As to compression, the quality compressors of the day - the 1176s, the LA-2As, the 33609s, the DBX stuff - that’s all still used by big time pros in big time studios, on big time records. The Eventide reverbs and delays are still used all the time as well. Heck the very compressors used on every record by the Beatles are still in use at Abbey Road, as are the EQs, etc. I use this stuff, or digital emulations of it, on the TV ad work I do. It works just fine.

The secret to using compression, but having it sound natural, is to use it in stages. It’s the old “gain staging” thing that gets talked about so often, and that most folks don’t have a clue how to do with any degree of transparency. Another technique I use that gets used often by a lot of folks, is parallel compression on its own channel, as an aux send and return.

I use a little bit of compression on each of my tracks, and then follow it with light compression on the group buses; and compression also gets used on the mix bus; then it gets used again on the mastering bus, sometimes in two additional stages, one to reduce the highest peaks, the second to even out the loudness of the signal. There are times I only want compression on certain frequencies, and there are multiband compressors made to do that.

Compression’s a great thing; it’s key in making good records, and it’s been used (and of course misused) since the modern era of recording began after WW2.

 

[shinksma]

You need to check one of these out....

Dang, that sounds good.

So I recognized Pete Thorn's name, Googled it, found an interview he did (admitted with Boss), and he extols the virtues of the Boss CS-3 (the unit I have), because it "has a really distinctive sound". Figures.

Reading what Les explained, I really do just need to sit and tweak my pedal to see if it can do other stuff beyond my default "sound like David Gilmour" need. I need to play with the attack and sustain (and tone) to really get this thing sussed out. I will admit I've been relatively lazy in using it, leaving it set up pretty well with everything at noon.

But I will explore a bit more the world of Compressors beyond the CS-3. That Drybell is a bit spendy, although it is two pedals in one, I suppose (compressor and Rangemaster/EQ).

 

[László]

I really do just need to sit and tweak my pedal to see if it can do other stuff beyond my default "sound like David Gilmour" need. I need to play with the attack and sustain (and tone) to really get this thing sussed out.

Yes!

Getting another pedal to replace the Boss one will only be worthwhile once you understand what your sonic needs are, and discover what you’re happy with, and not happy with, in a piece of equipment. The Boss pedal might be perfect for your needs, or it might not. Same with the Drybell, or the Cali 76, or any of the more expensive ones.

Part of good tone is the gear, of course. But that isn’t always dependent on what you feel like spending, and in any case, you’re still going to have to understand how to operate it to make a different pedal worth the dollars.

When folks ask me for studio gear recommendations, the first question is what they know how to do, not how much they feel like spending.

 

[shinksma]

Thanks Les! As always, your advice is sound and sensible.

 

[sergiodeblanc]

....or the Cali 76

Ugh, don’t remind me.

 

[shinksma]

Ugh, don’t remind me.

ok, curious as to what that means? You didn't like it, I take it?

 

[sergiodeblanc]

ok, curious as to what that means? You didn't like it, I take it?

No! I f@cking want one but I’m too cheap to buy one. TBH I won’t even consider a different compressor until I buy one and try it out.

 

[danktat]

I doubt that most do more than just noodle for their own amusement on the shiny cool gear they buy.

Dag-nabb-it!!!! Talking about me I see.....lol

 

[László]

Ugh, don’t remind me.

Well, we both know that an 1176 works well with most guitar sounds, especially rhythm guitar, though I like a more gentle compressor for solos. Just a personal quirk.

 

[László]

Dag-nabb-it!!!! Talking about me I see.....lol

I certainly don’t criticize anyone doing that! It’s how I got back into writing and creating music that led to my current career.

 

[Big Mike]

I don't wanna know if any are better than my mini dynacomp.
It dos what I need, or toss the mini switch on top, and it's instant 'Waylon Jennings Comp tone' with my teles.

 

[dkilpatrick]

A decent compressor, that has the blend control and won’t bust the bank, is the xotic “SP” compressor.