MT-15 tone issues - input appreciated!

[Z_bones]

First time poster here. I'm looking for recommendations on dialing in my MT-15 tone. I recently acquired this amp in mint condition, but haven't been able to get it to sound the way I want.

I have always been a Mark Tremonti fan (both his sound and style), and the tone that a lot of people seem to be getting out of the MT-15 (even with no effects whatsoever) sounds near perfect to me. But when I plugged this amp into my Line 6 Spider 4x12, I was immediately not stoked on the sound. Having already suspected that I might need a new cab that would pair well with the amp, I talked the guy who sold me the amp into selling me his excellent-condition Mesa Recto 2x12 (vertical slant), as well. I had heard a recording of the seller using the amp and cab together, and they sounded great. The V30s in the cab seem to me to be a logical complement to the amp, since it was originally voiced for those speakers.

I bought a new, high-quality speaker cable, put new strings on my guitar, and plugged in. But after 2 days of tweaking, I still can't get the lead channel to sound much better through the Mesa cab than it did through my Line 6. Tonally, it sounds kind of flat to me, and although it is very loud and crunchy with good "attack", it lacks the precision and "chugginess" that I've heard on the many YouTube demo videos I've watched. It's almost like the gain is cranked up to 11 that it's just messy and cheap sounding. Volume adjustment, half vs full power, gain & presence tweaks, and all kinds of EQ combinations have not really helped. The clean channel, on the other hand, is one of the best I've ever heard.

Setup details:

I'm using one of the 8 ohm parallel outputs and plugging into the single 8 ohm input on my Mesa cab.
I'm using a fairly cheap Monster guitar cable that is about 14 years old, but is in good shape.
My guitar is a custom-made mahogany body 7-string, set neck construction, with EMG 707 pickups (active).
I'm not running anything through the FX loop or using any pre-amp pedals.

Anybody have ideas on what I can do to get the tone everyone else seems to be getting out of this amp? Do I need a boost or overdrive pedal? Passive pickups? Do I need to buy a Mark Tremonti signature guitar??! Help! I trust the guy who sold me the gear, so I'm sure I don't have damaged equipment.

Thanks in advance!

 

[alantig]

A couple things come to mind - but keep in mind, I'm no expert on tube amps, but hopefully some other will chime in as well.

It's possible that you may have one or more bad tubes. If the amp was shipped, it's possible that could happen in the process.

It's also possible that there's a difference in the power at your house versus his. This is more of a long-shot idea, but it occurred to me so I'm mentioning it.

Maybe pickup height adjustments? I'd be tempted to borrow another guitar before you commit to a pickup swap. It's possible it will play more nicely with passive pickups, but I'd want to test it first.

Good luck!

 

[BrianC]

I wanted to like mine. I tried various tube strategies but in the end it was not the right amp for me - which is OK.
I was trying to put a square peg in a round hole.
Is this amp's tone suited to your style?

 

[Z_bones]

A couple things come to mind - but keep in mind, I'm no expert on tube amps, but hopefully some other will chime in as well.

It's possible that you may have one or more bad tubes. If the amp was shipped, it's possible that could happen in the process.

It's also possible that there's a difference in the power at your house versus his. This is more of a long-shot idea, but it occurred to me so I'm mentioning it.

Maybe pickup height adjustments? I'd be tempted to borrow another guitar before you commit to a pickup swap. It's possible it will play more nicely with passive pickups, but I'd want to test it first.

Good luck!

I picked up the amp locally, and I strongly doubt anything happened to the tubes during my drive home with it. Still, I guess the tubes could be at fault. Sounds SO GOOD on clean, though...

I'm intrigued by your suggestion about the power. My house is older and has had a handful of odd electrical issues. Maybe I'll take the whole setup to a friend's house and plug in there to check.

I'll definitely try to get another guitar to test with, but unfortunately I don't know any other guitarists in my area I could ask to borrow a guitar from... In any case, I'm not going to buy another guitar without knowing for sure that it would help.

Thanks for the response!

 

[Z_bones]

I wanted to like mine. I tried various tube strategies but in the end it was not the right amp for me - which is OK.
I was trying to put a square peg in a round hole.
Is this amp's tone suited to your style?

I would be more convinced of this as a possibility if I hadn't LOVED the sound from this amp on nearly every recording or video I've seen from it. Of course, YouTube videos played through my living room speakers aren't exactly proof of tone, but I can tell that it should have pretty dang close to what I'm looking for. And like I said, I love Mark Tremonti's guitar sound, and I know he used this amp to record his last couple of albums with Alter Bridge and Tremonti. Professional studio production aside, I know he's not big on effects, except for a little delay and occasionally a tube screamer, so presumably I should be able to get a similar tone out of my amp... Right?

It really seems to be more than just tonal preference. Something is off. It isn't horrible, but I'm pretty sure no musician would think it sounds great as it is - except maybe some kind of noise-grind guy!

Short of plugging into another MT-15, I don't know how best to narrow down the issue. (Though I suppose that's an option, if I can find a store with one that will let me demo it.)

 

[bluenova]

Likely a bum preamp tube in there somewhere. There’s a chart in the depths of this forum somewhere that shows which tubes are in the clean path and lead path. I’d start there and swap some tubes around. I’ve got 2 emg guitars that sound great through the mt15 and a 4x12 recto cab. Actually, everything sounds great through it....

 

[Z_bones]

Likely a bum preamp tube in there somewhere. There’s a chart in the depths of this forum somewhere that shows which tubes are in the clean path and lead path. I’d start there and swap some tubes around. I’ve got 2 emg guitars that sound great through the mt15 and a 4x12 recto cab. Actually, everything sounds great through it....

That's actually nice to hear! This is my first tube amp, so I'll have to do some research on the procedure for testing/replacing tubes, but I'd imagine it isn't terribly difficult. I think I have that tube diagram saved already - spotted it while skimming forums and took a screenshot just in case.

Thanks for the tip!

 

[Rider1260]

Tubes can always and anytime be an issue also the bias could be off it is worth a check and an easy adjustment

 

[elvis]

Tremonti uses hot passive pickups and downtunes. There is a good chance that your pickups and standard tuning are at least part of the issue.

How loud are you running the amp? It needs to be pretty loud to get the dynamics.

The amp should sound great with all the knobs at noon, that is how it was voiced. My Archon wants presence turned up, and you may want to boost mids instead of scooping.

 

[BrianC]

There are many guitarists I love and have bought the right gear that they use I can't make it work.

Example - single coil guitars with a Fultone Mini Deja Vibe - going for Trower. It just was't me...#2 certain wah pedals sound great for others but not for me - I like Morey Vai Bad Horsie, works for me but not a gear page favorite

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Unless there are obvious "issues" it's almost impossible to tell someone why they don't like the tones they are getting from an amp. If you're familiar with tube amps, are turning it up loud enough to actually hear it's tone, have known good guitar-cables-speaker, etc., and liked all the clips you heard of the amp but don't like the real amp, I'd suggest rolling known good tubes through it to search for a bad one or ones.

 

[Z_bones]

Tremonti uses hot passive pickups and downtunes. There is a good chance that your pickups and standard tuning are at least part of the issue.

How loud are you running the amp? It needs to be pretty loud to get the dynamics.

The amp should sound great with all the knobs at noon, that is how it was voiced. My Archon wants presence turned up, and you may want to boost mids instead of scooping.

Yeah, I definitely would like to try a guitar with a different pickup setup, but it seems like pretty much all the video reviews I've seen about the amp sound great, no matter what guitar the player is using... Tuning-wise, I play a 7-string tuned to standard, but occasionally I drop the B and E strings for fun. The tone issues don't seem to be affected by the tuning.

I have cranked it up pretty loud to listen for differences related to volume. It definitely sounds better, but still has the same flatness. Maybe I need to go even louder...?

The dials set to noon is definitely how I first tested it, and it was very hollow-sounding. I have the presence and gain up to about 3 o'clock to get it to sound crisper, but it gets very fizzy and imprecise with the gain up that high. Anyway, I've been turning the EQ knobs every which way to try to dial it in, but it still isn't sounding like it does in most of the clips I've seen on YouTube. Frustrating.

I'll keep tweaking it and work on acquiring a guitar with different pickups to try. Thanks for your response!

 

[Z_bones]

There are many guitarists I love and have bought the right gear that they use I can't make it work.

Example - single coil guitars with a Fultone Mini Deja Vibe - going for Trower. It just was't me...#2 certain wah pedals sound great for others but not for me - I like Morey Vai Bad Horsie, works for me but not a gear page favorite

I'm definitely not closing the door on the possibility that it's just not my preference. Still, I can't shake the thought that something is off, given how different the amp sounds in all the vids and recordings I've heard.

 

[Z_bones]

Unless there are obvious "issues" it's almost impossible to tell someone why they don't like the tones they are getting from an amp. If you're familiar with tube amps, are turning it up loud enough to actually hear it's tone, have known good guitar-cables-speaker, etc., and liked all the clips you heard of the amp but don't like the real amp, I'd suggest rolling known good tubes through it to search for a bad one or ones.

Thanks. I'm coming around to the idea that maybe it's a tube or tubes. Only one way to find out...

 

[alantig]

#2 certain wah pedals sound great for others but not for me - I like Morey Vai Bad Horsie, works for me but not a gear page favorite

So what's the negative?


or...

A Bad Horsie? Poser clown!!!! Real guitarists wouldn't buy that trash just to try to be like Vai. That's why I have...(checks label)...a Bad Horsie 2! Going my own way!!!

 

[GuitarJammin]

What do you feel is lacking? Bottom end? clarity? Response?

 

[Z_bones]

What do you feel is lacking? Bottom end? clarity? Response?

It's very difficult to describe. But admittedly, I'm not well-versed in the "tone lingo" that would help me describe how it sounds. I guess you could say clarity is part of the issue. The high end is fine, and I can get plenty of rumble with the bass up around 1 or 2 o'clock. The tone is just kind of flat and a little muddy. At times I think it sounds "hollow," too, which is worsened by adding in mid-range on the EQ; but when I scoop the mids, the "bite" starts sounding a bit dull.

In general, I'd say there's plenty of "attack," but not a lot of precision to the tone. It kind of sounds like a very loud version of the shitty Peavey 1x10 combo amp that I had in high school. It just sounds kind of cheap and dirty, almost like the whole cab is sitting inside a cardboard box - which makes no sense to me for a nice tube amp playing through a $900 Mesa cabinet. It sort of reminds me of the sound you get when the battery for an active pickup starts to die, except the sustain is excellent, the attack is adequate, and the clean channel sings like crazy.

More and more, I'm suspecting that a lead channel preamp tube may be the cause. Then again, it is not showing any of the typical audible symptoms of a bad tube (popping/crackling, loss of volume, rattling, etc.)...

 

[andy474x]

I’ve gotten the best results from mine using a shaping/boost pedal - I hesitate to even call it boost, because the amp has plenty of gain, but really a pedal to feed into the front of the amp that will cut some bass really tightens things up and defines the low end. I use a couple different ones with the MT15, a Friedman Buxom Boost set for mild boost, but with the “tight” control turned up about halfway, which shelves off some of the low bass, or a Tumnus, which does approximately the same but also adds some more midrange. A Tubescreamer will also do that, it’s got a different mid peak but similar idea. Also, I find myself running the treble control 2:00-3:00, fairly high, and mids can be turned down considerably without totally scooping the sound. The amp and the Mesa V30’s combined have plenty of midrange.

Edit: Taking things a bit further, I also replaced some of the preamp tubes in mine. The stock JJ’s, the common ecc83s, has a buttload of gain and really can overload a preamp circuit with too much signal from the V1 position, IMO, which makes the sound muddy. I like the new JJ e83cc (slightly different name, much better sound), or the new production Mullard ecc83. Less effect than the boost pedal, but it helps.

 

[GuitarJammin]

Go to guitar center and try a tube screamer type pedal, gain all the way down, Volume around 1 o' clock, tone to taste. If that doesn't work there is the 45 day return policy. Nothing to lose there. Other than that you seem to be describing to me why I chose a Archon 25 over the MT15. Even then I swapped the speaker in my Archon to a 75w Creamback. I also add in a 1x12 stealth cab with a Redback too every now and them.

 

[GuitarJammin]

Speaker swaps can do wonders too..but hard to guess at. V30s seem to be the standard for studios, but sitting and getting inspiring tone in your room can be a different venue. So don't rule out speaker cabs just yet.

Your guitar is all mahogany with can be darker. I know active pickups can be Flat sounding (which sometimes is an advantage). That wouldn't be my first thing to look at though. You changed up your strings. Gotta try to get close to your target before going down this rabbit hole.

I voted other because it's the whole formula you have to mess around with.