Long time PRS has genuine question

[Willj]

Curious as to why my 1996ish CE24 needs setup and maintenance attention so much more often than my les paul? Not only that, but there are other major distinctions between the the two guitars that are important to note, and make me feel like the Gibson is a superior guitar at a far lower price point. Beyond the set ups, the notes ring more true on my les paul, its easier to play in the sense that - the strings ring out more equally, with less accuracy needed. Equal volume between all string, notes, and at all places on the neck is more easily achievable, making the guitar easier to PLAY in tune. This speaks nothing about the way the two guitars "play" or actually feel in my hands which is not a consideration here at all.....and of course the difference in sustain.

My PRS is my everyday guitar. A lot to love but even when set up well i have to work a bit harder, and concentrate more on accuracy and intonation to get it to sound perfect, by my standards. Also sudden movements or light "push/pull" pressure causes the guitar to drift a bit in its tuning, which would be normal if it were intentional. The Les Paul is not nearly as sensitive in this regard. I sometimes have to be careful to hold my PRS still, if im recording a track where tuning is high in demand.

Being that i paid near the same price for the two guitars, for the sake of argument im going lump them into the same class of build quality. the les paul is basically a standard or a step down. I paid around 1600$ for it brand new, about 15 years ago. Im not exactly sure which model it is although i know its definitely not a studio. Maybe a classic or something. The PRS about $1300 for it in 1996 give or take a year.

I dont think the Les Paul is a "neck thru" in the traditional sense of the word but its similar( i forget the term, im sure you'll tell me) Its obviously different than my CE24 which is a bolt on....obviously.

I guess what im wondering is can most of these subtleties be calked up to the differences between "neck thru" (im calling it that for now) vs bolt on? I love my PRS but do i need to step up to a custom 24 to have a PRS that performs similarly? and if that IS the case, what can be said about having to spend $3500 or more on a guitar that gives me similar reactions as i get from a $2000 Gibson?

Some additional notes:

1) My guy says that a lot of the need for a set up is basically due to climate changes among other factors, but the les paul endures those same conditions and does not suffer from these adversities ive described nearly as much.

2)The PRS has been re-fretted
professionally more than once and *shouldnt* be an issue in this equation,
as the guitar has seemingly always been this way.

Thanks for any thought given here. Im trying to hurry this post out, and im usually more articulate in my descriptions, so i apologize for any misunderstandings.

 

[Aahzz]

I've owned about 8 Les Pauls, from Studios to Custom Shop 57 reissues, and about 6 PRS CEs. It seems to me that you got one of the rare truly excellent Les Pauls, as your experience is exactly the opposite of mine. My CEs were always rock solid, while I've never had a Les Paul (set neck is the term you're looking for, by the way) that didn't have tuning issues on the G string at the very least.

Embrace your Les Paul and enjoy the heck out of it.

I've also owned a number of set neck PRS, Custom 22, 24, and the like, and have found the bolt-ons and set necks to all have excellent stability.

 

[tedtan]

Are you using the same brand and gauge strings on both guitars?

 

[Willj]

I've owned about 8 Les Pauls, from Studios to Custom Shop 57 reissues, and about 6 PRS CEs. It seems to me that you got one of the rare truly excellent Les Pauls, as your experience is exactly the opposite of mine. My CEs were always rock solid, while I've never had a Les Paul (set neck is the term you're looking for, by the way) that didn't have tuning issues on the G string at the very least.

Embrace your Les Paul and enjoy the heck out of it.

I've also owned a number of set neck PRS, Custom 22, 24, and the like, and have found the bolt-ons and set necks to all have excellent stability.

ahh yes. set neck! thank you. Ive been kicking around the idea of one of the custrom 24s...such a nice looking guitar... but another guitar is probably the last thing i need....want is a complete other story I havent noticed this phenomenon with any of my other bolt ons... not even a cheaper dean 7 string.

Special? I dont know about that. I'll tell myself that just to make playing a bit more inspiring For sure the way id hope a guitar would perform.

Unrelated side note in reference to "time available" Ya know when i was a kid i would just pick up the guitar and play it any old time but as ive gotten to be 51 and my body has suffered abuse from the likes of a real job, i find i need to account for 2hrs of warm up, before i can even begin to play at a level that holds my interest.....making thing more challenging of course.

Are you using the same brand and gauge strings on both guitars?

I am and thanks to both of you guys for taking a second to read thru that madness. Ernie slinky 11s

 

[Willj]

I put fishman fluence pick ups in my PRS about a year or so ago and it definitely benefitted the overall sound quality and helped close the gap between the two guitars, in some ways.
When the PRS is very well set up it will definitely hold its own against the Gibson, but it doesnt seem like it takes more than a month for the intonation and setup to slip away. Hoping to spend a minute or two playing some custom 24s this weekend or next.

 

[HANGAR18]

Pretty sure you cannot judge all PRS guitars based on only one sample. I went through a LOT of PRS guitars I didn't like until I discovered what I do like... and then bought a bunch of duplicates of the same thing.

 

[Willj]

Pretty sure you cannot judge all PRS guitars based on only one sample. I went through a LOT of PRS guitars I didn't like until I discovered what I do like... and then bought a bunch of duplicates of the same thing.

Well what im attempting to do, is figure out why my Gibson in a similar price range, plays in tune, with a lot less effort and upkeep....but i get it. My post was long and windy, and if i could have just said that it probably would have been better. appreciate the brain power though, for sure.

After having you guys help me think about this for a minute - another distinction ive never really considered until now is that my Gibson is only a 22 fret guitar versus CE24, so im sure the shorter vs longer scale length is a BIG factor here Makes sense that longer necks would come with more challenges....as a matter of fact im betting between this and the neck construction, its most of what im hearing.

 

[HANGAR18]

Well what im attempting to do, is figure out why my Gibson in a similar price range, plays in tune, with a lot less effort and upkeep....but i get it. My post was long and windy, and if i could have just said that it probably would have been better. appreciate the brain power though, for sure.

After having you guys help me think about this for a minute - another distinction ive never really considered until now is that my Gibson is only a 22 fret guitar versus CE24, so im sure the shorter vs longer scale length is a BIG factor here Makes sense that longer necks would come with more challenges....as a matter of fact im betting between this and the neck construction, its most of what im hearing.

I don't think that a quarter inch longer scale length has anything to do with the problem you have described. PRSh built a company founded upon a guitar design which is low maintenance and stays in tune. So I'm inclined to think that just perhaps there is some user error involved somewhere, or maybe even worn out parts somewhere. What generation of tuners & bridge do you have? Do you have winged tuners? If so, there is a demo on how to use them here: https://prsguitars.com/support/article/prs_winged_locking_tuners

Or maybe there is something else going on. They have a self help section for tuners and bridges here:
https://prsguitars.com/support/setup#tuners

 

[SamIV]

I have had guitars that do not hold their set up well. Most were of Asian decent. Seems the neck on the wood changed. Had a guitar that changed so bad it needed a fret level. It was unplayable. I do own a 1998 CE24 and it is quite special.

 

[Willj]

They have a self help section for tuners and bridges here:

Yeah ive seen that. My tuners are winged, but there are more effective winding techniques than that shown in the link. I dont have a problem STAYING in tune. I have a problem PLAYING in tune....and it does, just not as easily and consistently as the les paul. Thanks again for the info. i'll have to come back around and dig a little deeper into your other links but you might be on to something with the bridge.

 

[Mark Ray]

I for one am interested in a Les Paul that plays in tune all over the neck better than a PRS.

 

[DISTORT6]

I for one am interested in a Les Paul that plays in tune all over the neck better than a PRS.

That isn't a CS or an R-whatever.

 

[Aahzz]

Yeah ive seen that. My tuners are winged, but there are more effective winding techniques than that shown in the link. I dont have a problem STAYING in tune. I have a problem PLAYING in tune....and it does, just not as easily and consistently as the les paul. Thanks again for the info. i'll have to come back around and dig a little deeper into your other links but you might be on to something with the bridge.

So it holds tune, but when you play, notes go wrong? That could be fret size combined with finger pressure pushing the strings out of tune. Or, if you're moving around there's a potential that the movement is flexing the neck, which I suppose could be more noticeable with a bolt-on. Those are the first two things that come to mind given what I think you're describing .

 

[Aahzz]

I for one am interested in a Les Paul that plays in tune all over the neck better than a PRS.

Before this thread I'd've said it'd be easier to find a unicorn. I'm including my former R7 in that - played in tune better than other Lesters I've owned, but was still a Lester...

Don't get me wrong, I love Les Pauls - when other people are playing them. Try as I might, they're just not my guitar.

 

[Aahzz]

I can't stop commenting!

I wanted to add - I'm also not bashing Gibson where LPs are concerned. I do, however, tend to lay some blame on the large number of LP players that are die-hard traditionalists, and think a guitar is crap if the binding width is changed...makes it impossible for a change in headstock angle or anything that would improve both tuning stability and durability.

 

[László]

Everyone's got an opinion on what's desirable in a guitar.

Yours is as valid as anyone else's. I much prefer the PRS sound to the best Les Pauls. That doesn't make my opinion any more valid than yours. We're all different.

 

[zerolight]

The odd thing you mention is the intonation drifting. That shouldn't happen on any guitar. That's pretty much set and forget. What typically changes seasonally is the neck relief - enough to change the feel and action, but not the intonation. If your saddles are moving requiring the intonation to be reset every few months then maybe you have an issue with your saddles and their set screws. Either that or your neck bolts are allowing significant movement of the neck, or your trem posts are moving? Whatever the case, not normal.

 

[sergiodeblanc]

Some guitars just aren’t as stable as others, I own some that always need a truss Rod tweak, and others that never need them. Hell, my newest PRS (I think) has never even had a truss rod adjustment and it was made in 2016. I can’t explain it.

You said you have a CE24, so I’m gonna assume it has a Wide/Thin neck. I have one myself and, I also have to be careful not to push or pull on that neck, it can get wobbly. Doesn’t necessarily have to be brand or model exclusive either. Some necks will just move or flex.

Also, scale length (as OP mentioned) is a factor, and the other thing that stands out is you mentioned it’s been refreted a couple times. Perhaps the frets that are in there are taller and/or skinnier? Tall frets require a lighter touch to not sound sharp.

I have a couple guitars with tall(big) frets and you gotta play differently. I’ve even had dudes play those guitars and be like “how do you play this in tune?” to me.

Maybe the CE just isn’t for you? No shame in that.

 

[Ovibos]

So it holds tune, but when you play, notes go wrong? That could be fret size combined with finger pressure pushing the strings out of tune. Or, if you're moving around there's a potential that the movement is flexing the neck, which I suppose could be more noticeable with a bolt-on. Those are the first two things that come to mind given what I think you're describing .

He said it’s been refretted twice. I wonder if they put larger ones on than the Gibson has and he’s pushing down too far causing the drift.

I had a PRS SE Holcomb I couldn’t vibe with bc the frets were really tall (and the flat radius)

 

[tedtan]

If the strings are the same, my first thought was that the neck screws may need to be tightened. But if the guitar stays in tune, I’m inclined to agree with Aahz that it’s probably a combination of taller frets and pushing the strings down too hard. With taller frets, you have to play lighter with your left hand or you’ll push the notes sharp.