Holy Grail Amplifiers

BWV548 said:
Actually, I don’t. Understand that I’m not terribly bright.
Did you mean that in jazz “tone” is of lesser importance than the in overly broad category of rock?
Did you mean jazz guitarists practice too much to be bothered by the minutiae of gear?
Is there some sort of unspoken rule, stating that in jazz club, any perceived sins of gear acquisition are forgiven?
Did you mean that because overdrive/clipping etc is relatively rare in most jazz, that we don’t need to engage in tubular talk?
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11top said:
Maybe he does, but I don’t. What do you mean “....it’s own thing?”

Tone doesn’t matter?
Click to expand...

*For the most part* jazz guitarists are all about clean, un-effected, “pure” amplified guitar sounds. That’s why Polytone and Roland JC amps are used a lot, since solid state amplifiers generally don’t distort.
 
markie said:
I'm not really much of an Amp guy, but Bogner Shiva is my Amp of choice.....
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Not only is it an excellent amp (and your amp of choice), to reinforce your good taste in amps...

A few years ago my son was working with the producer Flood (U2, Rolling Stones, lots of famous bands), and Flood wanted Jamie to find a cool amp for the project. I hooked him up with a Two Rock, and they also tried a bunch of superb vintage amps. Nothing worked until they found the Shiva.

And it was Flood who picked the Shiva. He thought it was a great sounding amp for the project. Those are some serious, experienced ears to put on guitar tone. It’s a heckuva good amp!

In fact, it was Reinhold Bogner’s choice for what he wanted to present to the band as his personal recommendation.

If I played a slightly higher gain style, I’d have one in my arsenal. Great sounding amp.
 
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BWV548 said:
Actually, I don’t. Understand that I’m not terribly bright.
Did you mean that in jazz “tone” is of lesser importance than the in overly broad category of rock?
Did you mean jazz guitarists practice too much to be bothered by the minutiae of gear?
Is there some sort of unspoken rule, stating that in jazz club, any perceived sins of gear acquisition are forgiven?
Did you mean that because overdrive/clipping etc is relatively rare in most jazz, that we don’t need to engage in tubular talk?
Click to expand...

11top said:
Maybe he does, but I don’t. What do you mean “....it’s own thing?”

Tone doesn’t matter?
Click to expand...

zgJvEG6.jpg
 
I see you’ve deleted your post where you quite erroneously assumed and ascribed intention and malice. I’ll still respond to that post even though it has be vanished.

Mr Schefman, I don’t typically find it necessary to explicitly state my intentions for rather benign statements or posts. And let’s be very clear: my posts, under your scrutiny, are very benign. However, it seems in this case, I need to be explicit

  1. any “messing” that may have been done, was certainly not “pointless”. (I believe those were your words, apologies if my recall is faulty). There was a small and specific point: a gentle good natured pushback to your Kemper comment, which I took as similarly good natured. How you interpreted ill will from my posts is unclear and, though not quite insulting, disappointingly lazy. This, however, was not the bulk of my intentions. Not even close
  2. I’m genuinely trying to work out what it is I’m missing with respect to tube amps. If you go through and read any commentary that I’ve made, you’ll likely find a tones of inquiry and , yes, skepticism, without being a dull contrarian. My skepticism- or anyone’s skepticism- should not be assumed to carry an attitude of being closed off to a topic or being swayed on an opinion. You strike me as a rather intelligent person, so I think you’ll agree skepticism is healthy, even if it frustrates you.
  3. Intentional or not, the tube arguments that I run across quite closely mirror the anti-PRS arguments. Not the lawyer/Dr/ etc arguments, but the ones that often, boringly, sing arias of “no soul”, “sterile”, etc. Arguments that I fail to understand, not because I’m fond of PRS guitars, but because such arguments take such a painfully absurd and simplistic look at the richness of making music, that I can’t see how a cogent adult can make such arguments. This of course don’t mean that I dispute that they may not like PRS guitars. It’s that I dispute the tired hyperbole with which they attempt to express their (perfectly valid) opinions. Now, to be clear I’m NOT accusing you of such an attitude, personally. However, I will say that a response along the lines of “like what you like” is pretty unsatisfactory for someone making a genuine inquiry and attempt at self education.
  4. The argument that you *seem* to be making, along the lines of “for tone, there is traditional jazz, and everything else”, is similarly unsatisfying. I’m honestly not sure where any discussion can go under such an argument. Surely any genre has its characteristic timbres. Why isolate Jazz? Moreover, Stern’s music in that performance isn’t traditional jazz. If I’m missing some subtlety- which is possible as I make no claims to being intelligent-then by all means clarity I posted examples of top tier players using SS (martino) and modeling - or whatever tech category Boss’s “Tube Logic” falls under (Stern) as a sanity check for me, as much as a challenge for you, as perhaps I should be considering the possibility that my timpanic membranes have fossilized, as an intrapersonal response to my struggling to hear the singular glory of tubes
So Mr Schefman, you’re certainly free to interpret my posts as being flippant and ill willed. However, do know that, should you make that choice, you’re interacting with your own presumptuous caricature of me, and not ME
 
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BWV548 said:
I see you’ve deleted your post where you quite erroneously assumed and ascribed intention and malice. I’ll still respond to that post even though it has be vanished.

Mr Schefman, I don’t typically find it necessary to explicitly state my intentions for rather benign statements or posts. And let’s be very clear: my posts, under your scrutiny, are very benign. However, it seems in this case, I need to be explicit

  1. any “messing” that may have been done, was certainly not pointless. (I believe those were your words, apologies. There was a small and specific point: a gentle good natured pushback to your Kemper comment, which I took as similarly good natured. How you interpreted ill will from my posts is unclear and, though not quite insulting, disappointingly lazy. This, however, was not the bulk of my intentions. Not even close
  2. I’m genuinely trying to work out what it is I’m missing with respect to tube amps. If you go through and read any commentary that I’ve made, you’ll likely find a tones of inquiry and , yes, skepticism, without being a dull contrarian. My skepticism- or anyone’s skepticism- should not be assumed to carry an attitude of being closed off to a topic or being swayed on an opinion. You strike me as a rather intelligent person, so I think you’ll agree skepticism is healthy, even if it frustrates you.
  3. Intentional or not, the tube arguments that I run across quite closely mirror the anti-PRS arguments. Not the lawyer/Dr/ etc arguments, but the ones that often, boringly, sing arias of “no soul”, “sterile”, etc. Arguments that I fail to understand, not because I’m fond of PRS guitars, but because such arguments take such a painfully absurd and simplistic look at the richness of making music, that I can’t see how a cogent adult can make such arguments. This of course don’t mean that I dispute that they may not like PRS guitars. It’s that I dispute the tired hyperbole with which they attempt to express their (perfectly valid) opinions. Now, to be clear I’m NOT accusing you of such an attitude, personally. However, I will say that a response along the lines of “like what you like” is pretty unsatisfactory for someone making a genuine inquiry and attempt at self education.
  4. The argument that you *seem* to be making, along the lines of “for tone, there is traditional jazz, and everything else”, is similarly unsatisfying. I’m honestly not sure where any discussion can go under such an argument. Surely any genre has its characteristic timbres. Why isolate Jazz? Moreover, Stern’s music in that performance isn’t traditional jazz. If I’m missing some subtlety- which is possible as I make no claims to being intelligent-then by all means clarity I posted examples of top tier players using SS (martino) and modeling - or whatever tech category Boss’s “Tube Logic” falls under (Stern) as a sanity check for me, as much as a challenge for you, as perhaps I should be considering the possibility that my timpanic membranes have fossilized, as an intrapersonal response to my struggling to hear the singular glory of tubes
So Mr Schefman, you’re certainly free to interpret my posts as being flippant and ill willed. However, do know that, should you make that choice, you’re interacting with your own presumptuous caricature of me, and not ME
Click to expand...

My earlier post didn’t vanish. I thought the Crapper poster was funnier.

I’d say props on the four point rant. However, I’m too disappointingly lazy to reply in detail. So I’ll just stick with the presumptuous caricature of you I already have. :rolleyes:
 
LSchefman said:
My earlier post didn’t vanish. I thought the Crapper poster was funnier.

I’d say props on the four point rant. However, I’m too disappointingly lazy to reply in detail. So I’ll just stick with the presumptuous caricature of you I already have. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Fair enough :cool:
 
I’m still looking for the Holy Grail. But here are my top stallions at the moment:

1) LANDRY LS30
2) CARR TELSTAR
3) CARR MERCURY V

And a current temptation:

FARGEN DBC-25
 
Mesa Tremoverb Dual Rectifier. My HBII through that nails the Incubus tone for the Morning View album. Only downfall...well at least to neighbors, dogs, fiancé...is it’s a 100 watt beast.
 
sergiodeblanc said:
*For the most part* jazz guitarists are all about clean, un-effected, “pure” amplified guitar sounds. That’s why Polytone and Roland JC amps are used a lot, since solid state amplifiers generally don’t distort.
Click to expand...

Stern isn't someone I hold up as having great 'tone' either. Amazing player. Schofield, Ritenour has done some cool stuff with Boogies, as has carlton and Ford pre-dumble. I really like Paul Jackson Jr's tone and approach, believe he's also boogie. As was Jeff Golub (then fuchs, fender, whatev). Fabulous jazz players with great tone but I digress.
 
Big Mike said:
Stern isn't someone I hold up as having great 'tone' either. Amazing player. Schofield, Ritenour has done some cool stuff with Boogies, as has carlton and Ford pre-dumble. I really like Paul Jackson Jr's tone and approach, believe he's also boogie. As was Jeff Golub (then fuchs, fender, whatev). Fabulous jazz players with great tone but I digress.
Click to expand...

I’m never going to say that Boogie amps aren’t awesome.

My heart still hurts a bit about trading away my Mk V.
 
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