Delay for Archon (with volume boost)?

[boardn10]

Biggest problem I have with my Archon 100 is how much the volume drops when I engage the loop.
Unfortunately PRS didn't include a loop level or didn't design the loop to maintqin volume when engaged.
I stl love the amp but I've had to buy all effects with significant volume boosts to bring the level back up.
I'm looking for a delay now and was gonna get the Love Pedal Ecbophonic.
Anyone try this with the Archon?

I wish they had designed the loop like my Bogner Shiva which is flawless.

Maybe the Archon loop is line level, hence the issue. My Egnater had that issue.

Thanks.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

I know we discussed loops here a bunch of times, with different amps, etc. There is one overwhelming issue with loops, and that is there is NO standard whatsoever for the devices you put in those loops. You drop 3 pedals in there, and they will all three have different input and output impedance. Worse, some are fixed in level, some are adjustable in and out level. The the amp builder has to decide whether they build it for rack gear, or pedals, which are very different. Or do they do something that's a compromise for either but will work for both?

In the old days, they built them knowing people would only use rack gear in the loops. Then people started throwing pedals in there.

I know we know all of this, but I'm just saying that I see more people complaining about loops than any other gear related complaint. But, the answer is always the same... the loop was designed one way, the other, or both. What you put in the loop makes all the difference. And most importantly of all, "this works perfectly with my other amps loop, but not with this new amps loop" has very little if anything to to with the quality of the new amps loop. It has to do with the synergy or lack thereof, of the devices in the loop, with that particular amps loop design.

All that said, the one thing I don't think I've ever heard about the Archon loop is that it drops volume. And that's because IT can't. Something in your loop is dropping the volume, or you have the wrong or bad tube driving the loop. The loop itself can't cause a volume drop, but some mismatched item in the loop can. If your pre-amp signal is hotter than a pedal can handle, then the pedal in the loop could be cutting volume.

If the normal loop trouble shooting methods don't yield a suspect, it's your loop driver tube.

IMHO, YMMV, consult your physician for erections lasting over 4 hours.

 

[alantig]

DTR brings up an interesting point. Have you tried just a cable in the loop, no pedals, to see if the volume drop is there?

 

[Deleted member 5962]

DTR brings up an interesting point.

You say that every time I bring up the 4 hour erection disclaimer.

 

[boardn10]

My loop is definitely dropping the volume. I've had two techs look at it and both said poor loop design. I love the amp, hate the loop. I've had probably 25 tube amps, this is the only one that's given me issues other than the Egnater which was Line level. I just had it returned so the tubes are all new and the same type as came stock with the amp. I've also tried several different tubes for the heck of it. Always the same result, click on the loop and there goes all my volume.
I've had maybe 8 different rube driver tunes in there.

Bogner makes the best loops I've yet to use. They work perfectly.

 

[alantig]

You say that every time I bring up the 4 hour erection disclaimer.

Well, my wife doesn't want me to bring it up, so...

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Well, my wife doesn't want me to bring it up, so...

NPI…

 

[boardn10]

The loop is a mess. As soon as you hit the loop, it's a dark, muddy mess, regardless of tubes, regardless of pedals. It's like the loop was designed by and elementary school class.

PRS should be ashamed.

Loops have been around for decades.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

I don't know man... nobody else has had this problem, that I have seen or heard. And amp techs saying the loop design is poor.. and offering no fix... Again, I don't know. Many guys here and not here, use Archons, use the loop, and either don't have problems, or easily trace them to specific pedals or power issues, and then fix it.

Again, there are no standards for what pedals you put in the loop. I've had at least 15 in the loop of my Archon, and only one caused noise, and... I think I've discovered something that might fix it and might have been the culprit. Even if not, every other pedal has worked fine. No loss of volume, no loss of transparency, no issues whatsoever.

This makes it hard to understand the techs say it's poor design, and boat anchor, can't give it away comments. IDK...

My thoughts are... if nobody else has this problem, then it actually is a "problem" with your amp. And that means one simple thing. It can be fixed! It's clearly not the norm, and something is wrong somewhere. Amp Techs who just say "it's a poor design" must not be very good amp techs. If your specific amp has a problem that nobody elses amp has, they should KNOW something is wrong, and should have the knowledge to find out what it is and fix it.

 

[jak3af3r]

I know we discussed loops here a bunch of times, with different amps, etc. There is one overwhelming issue with loops, and that is there is NO standard whatsoever for the devices you put in those loops. You drop 3 pedals in there, and they will all three have different input and output impedance. Worse, some are fixed in level, some are adjustable in and out level. The the amp builder has to decide whether they build it for rack gear, or pedals, which are very different. Or do they do something that's a compromise for either but will work for both?

I might suggest an FX loop buffer like what the D-style amps (and passive FX loop amps) typically need. Those have level adjustments and typically a couple of bright switches.

And the high-end ones have tubes. Everyone knows moar toobs=moar toanz.

 

[alantig]

And the high-end ones have tubes. Everyone knows moar toobs=moar toanz.

Wait - it's moar toobs not moat ooz? I shouldn't have been reading late at night w/o my glasses. WTF am I going to do with this trench around my house now?

 

[jak3af3r]

Wait - it's moar toobs not moat ooz? I shouldn't have been reading late at night w/o my glasses. WTF am I going to do with this trench around my house now?

Krokadilze

 

[alantig]

Krokadilze

I've decided to use it as a way to keep women with names like Alexandra or Alison out of my house. It's my Allie-gater.












Shut up - you know you're going to tell that to people.

 

[boardn10]

I love the tone of my Archon. I can't really use it for rock, only metal. That said, if I could find a way to get the loop to work, I'd try to use it somehow.
Maybe I can just run all effects into the front of the amp. Delay just sounds messy to me before the preamp.

Again, I've tried the effects loop with just a patch cable, about 20 different effe ts and it's always the se result....muddy, blurry and volume drop. I've tried several tube, new and old. Always the se result.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Again, I've tried the effects loop with just a patch cable, about 20 different effe ts and it's always the se result....muddy, blurry and volume drop. I've tried several tube, new and old. Always the se result.

And, again, something is wrong with your loop. I've never touched mine, and can put up proof that there is no volume drop, no loss of tone AT ALL, or any other issues you're having. Do you know the old saying, "if you're the only with having the problem, the problem may be with you?" Well, that applies to amps too.

And, I'm not coming down on you, but you've been complaining about it for a couple years now and nobody else has this issue. ALL the loop issues people have had with these were either A) fixed by the factory mod, or B) are directly related to the pedals in the loop and or fixable grounding issues. The issues you have with a straight cable in the loop, nobody else has them. And that very simply means, something is wrong with YOUR amp.

Amp techs who can't fix it and say it's a bad design... as I said when you posted that... interesting in light of the fact that nobody else has the issues you do. So I don't know what they checked to make those claims, but something in your loop circuit is out of spec. Even for a hack like me, that's simple 101 troubleshooting stuff. If everyone else has the problem, it is the design. If nobody else does, it's a problem with your amp.

And, my Archon works GREAT for rock. And I haven't even tried lower gain tubes in any of the pre-stages... I sometimes go weeks with the gain at 8:00 for rhythm tones, and a pedal kicked on for solos. IT works great. Others have done it.

But the loop...

 

[boardn10]

Yep that loop blows ass.
I talked to PRS and they did an overhaul on the crappy loop for the 50 water and it's a completely new design for the new yet to be released Tremonti. They finally got it together. Let's hope!

But I may have to stop playing anyway as I have a nerve disease that is destroying my peripheral nerves and it's becoming harder and harder to play. Unfortunately it's been destroying my life. When I was first diagnosed I was quite suicidal because I lost so much but luckily went into remission. I had a good stretch for a number of years.

Then it decided to rear it's ugly head years later.

 

[boardn10]

Guys, I really appreciate all your help.
I am getting this figured out because I love rhe gain on the Archon too much. Plus, rolling off the volume pot on my guitar give some nice low to medium gain tones, then I just hit it with my Friedman Buxom Boost or Suhr Koko Boost and I get great solo tones.

I think I finally got the loop doing what I want using an Ebtech Hum Eliminator. Truth is, I love how effects blend wirh this amp. Solos wound very produced and smooth. The gain is so liquid and fun to play. I hear guys say the amp is on the dry side. I don't find that to be true. It feels good under the fingers.
As good as my Shiva 20th but with more gain.
I even replaced the 6CA7 tubes back to the stock Ruby 6L6 tubes and the gain sounds and feels about the same.

Sorry I said some stupid stuff that I shouldn't have. I apologize. I was in a bad place with some health crap.

Thanks for everything.

It seems my flare up has calmed down and I started to play again this week. I am hoping it is short lived and or manageable. I don't want to stop playing.

 

[László]

Sorry I said some stupid stuff that I shouldn't have. I apologize. I was in a bad place with some health crap.

We are ALL guilty of saying stupid stuff.

My wife tells me I do it every single damn day!

 

[boardn10]

We are ALL guilty of saying stupid stuff.

My wife tells me I do it every single damn day!

I was married but that was years ago, lol.
I get it bro.

Thanks man, appreciate it. My girlfriend and I always tell each other to call one another out if we do that, lol.

On the Archon - it's one of the better amps I've found that works well with volume roll off. I don't even use volume pot treble bleeds and seems fine.

 

[László]

I was married but that was years ago, lol.
I get it bro.

Thanks man, appreciate it. My girlfriend and I always tell each other to call one another out if we do that, lol.

On the Archon - it's one of the better amps I've found that works well with volume roll off. I don't even use volume pot treble bleeds and seems fine.

It's a great amp!

Congrats on staying single - I've been married for 5,000 years, At this point, I can't be un-married. We'd both turn to sawdust.