Custom P22 Value Question (Insurance Focused)

[Mr.Fantasy]

Hello,

I purchased a 2013 P22 wood library run with an Artist grade maple top (looks like private stock). A pattern regular carve one piece mahogany neck with a Brazilian rosewood fretboard and paua shell bird inlays. A Korina back with a tremolo bridge and hybrid hardware. P22 pickups and piezo electronics. Finished in Black Gold Burst. It came with the paisley case too. Price was $3k.

This is my first PRS and I am not sure on value and such....of course I know what I paid for it, but I have reason to believe that it may be worth more than what I gave.

What is the best way to determine the value of these? The PRS customer service said they couldn't offer price information as far as what this originally sold for, etc. My wife keeps telling me that we need to insure it.

Any help would be much appreciated!!

 

[AP515]

New price you can look it up in that years price list under MAP. The question of worth after retail is really just what the used going rate is and a review of E-Bay sold listings and a quick look on CL will give you a good idea. For insurance purposes, you can insure for the retail amount, the used amount, anything inbetween, or the replacement cost. Which should you do? It's is up to you. I chose replacement cost.

 

[Mr.Fantasy]

New price you can look it up in that years price list under MAP. The question of worth after retail is really just what the used going rate is and a review of E-Bay sold listings and a quick look on CL will give you a good idea. For insurance purposes, you can insure for the retail amount, the used amount, anything inbetween, or the replacement cost. Which should you do? It's is up to you. I chose replacement cost.

Great idea.

I was able to find that an Artist Package P22 went for $7,299 in 2013. But I really don't have a way to adjust for the Brazilian Rosewood fretboard and the Korina back. I wonder if a ballpark of $2000 for those options would be in the ballpark.

And how does one figure out replacement cost on a Wood Library? I mean, those are non-standard by definition, correct? Any ideas there? Would I literally have to contact a major retailer and custom order to my specs?

 

[kes7u]

Great idea.

I was able to find that an Artist Package P22 went for $7,299 in 2013.

Seriously? That is more than some Private Stocks. I don't believe that to be typical. JMHO.

Kevin

 

[rugerpc]

Insurance valuation matches market valuation, not what it should be given rarity or this or that option. It's a 4 year old guitar. Condition matters, but so does age. No insurance company is going to let you value it at over three times what you paid for it. That bill of sale is the documentation they are going to want.

Insure it for what you paid for it. Simple.

 

[Mr.Fantasy]

I don't think I can do attachments due to post count, but it was an official looking PRS pricing list I found.

Not saying you are wrong....or that this one sold for that much originally, but that looked like the suggested price to me.

 

[Mr.Fantasy]

Insurance valuation matches market valuation, not what it should be given rarity or this or that option. It's a 4 year old guitar. Condition matters, but so does age. No insurance company is going to let you value it at over three times what you paid for it. That bill of sale is the documentation they are going to want.

Insure it for what you paid for it. Simple.

That is simple. But if "Korina" were to be destroyed....the market price doesn't mean much if I can't actually find a like replacement. I would think that a current price quote from PRS would be the base point.

 

[rugerpc]

That's a negotiation with the insurance company. You have to convince them of the rarity of the wood.

Insurance companies insure LOTS of things that simply cannot be replaced for one reason or another. But, I think you're going to have a hard time convincing anyone that they should be on the hook for over $9K when you paid $3K. If they let people do that, everyone would buy stuff that is a little rare, insure it obscenely and then trash the item for a tidy profit.

I'm just sayin' I don't think you'll get a company to bite...

 

[Mr.Fantasy]

That's a negotiation with the insurance company. You have to convince them of the rarity of the wood.

Insurance companies insure LOTS of things that simply cannot be replaced for one reason or another. But, I think you're going to have a hard time convincing anyone that they should be on the hook for over $9K when you paid $3K. If they let people do that, everyone would buy stuff that is a little rare, insure it obscenely and then trash the item for a tidy profit.

I'm just sayin' I don't think you'll get a company to bite...

I appreciate the advice.

 

[shinksma]

I was able to find that an Artist Package P22 went for $7,299 in 2013.

Seriously? That is more than some Private Stocks. I don't believe that to be typical. JMHO.

Kevin

Believe it, at least Official List Price-wise.

I have a copy of the PRS Price list from 2012, and the P22 base with a 10-top is about a thou from that number - no Artist Package available that year, as far as I can see, which would make up the difference. Now these are higher than the prices listed as "MAP" in the price list I have from 2014, which show a pretty fair drop for Artist Package P22. So I assume the 2012 prices are "full list" vs 2014 "MAP", which can be different.

Not sure how/why PRS adjusted the pricing strategy. At any rate, I doubt the guitar sold for more than $4K or $4.5K in 2013. My guess, only, of course.

However - if the OP bought it recently for $3K that seems like a typical used price, a bit of a "good deal" perhaps. Valuation for insurance probably shouldn't exceed that by too much. Look on Reverb or similar for quick comparisons.

 

[kes7u]

Believe it, at least Official List Price-wise.

I have a copy of the PRS Price list from 2012, and the P22 base with a 10-top is about a thou from that number - no Artist Package available that year, as far as I can see, which would make up the difference. Now these are higher than the prices listed as "MAP" in the price list I have from 2014, which show a pretty fair drop for Artist Package P22. So I assume the 2012 prices are "full list" vs 2014 "MAP", which can be different.

Not sure how/why PRS adjusted the pricing strategy. At any rate, I doubt the guitar sold for more than $4K or $4.5K in 2013. My guess, only, of course.

However - if the OP bought it recently for $3K that seems like a typical used price, a bit of a "good deal" perhaps. Valuation for insurance probably shouldn't exceed that by too much. Look on Reverb or similar for quick comparisons.

My mistake! Shows what I know. Please defer to these other fine gentlemen who actually know of what they speak!

Kevin

 

[bodia]

I'm in a townhouse, so these fall under "Renters Insurance" for me, at least at the recommendation of my agent. She said there was no reason to do them individually. Not sure if that was the best advice, but I'll trust her. We were broken into when we first moved in 20 odd years ago. She helped us out greatly at that time. I just made sure my premium covered the price I paid for each of my guitars knowing that most of them would depreciate over time.

 

[Mr.Fantasy]

Believe it, at least Official List Price-wise.

I have a copy of the PRS Price list from 2012, and the P22 base with a 10-top is about a thou from that number - no Artist Package available that year, as far as I can see, which would make up the difference. Now these are higher than the prices listed as "MAP" in the price list I have from 2014, which show a pretty fair drop for Artist Package P22. So I assume the 2012 prices are "full list" vs 2014 "MAP", which can be different.

Not sure how/why PRS adjusted the pricing strategy. At any rate, I doubt the guitar sold for more than $4K or $4.5K in 2013. My guess, only, of course.

However - if the OP bought it recently for $3K that seems like a typical used price, a bit of a "good deal" perhaps. Valuation for insurance probably shouldn't exceed that by too much. Look on Reverb or similar for quick comparisons.

Shinksma - Thanks for the response.

And nice profile picture....that looks almost identical to my P22. (though I think your pic is of a P24)

As a quick aside (as I feel this post is reaching the end of its usefulness) what kind of battery life do you get when you have the piezo on full or blend?

 

[11top]

Insurance valuation matches market valuation, not what it should be given rarity or this or that option. It's a 4 year old guitar. Condition matters, but so does age. No insurance company is going to let you value it at over three times what you paid for it. That bill of sale is the documentation they are going to want.

Insure it for what you paid for it. Simple.

Not so fast. Insurance valuation typically matches replacement cost, not market value (at least under general contents coverage on a homeowners policy). However, you can insure for market value under inland marine coverage by scheduling your item on a homeowners policy. Caveat! You need to be aware that MOST inland marine forms are not "valued." That means that you will still have to prove the value of your item at the TIME OF LOSS, not when you schedule it. How do you get around that? You either request an "Agreed "Valued" musical instrument floater or you request a "Fine Arts" floater. I prefer the latter, because it is already a valued form. You typically will have to acquire an appraisal to get a valued inland marine scheduled form. In my experience, insurance companies will accept an appraisal from most any music retailer.

There are some insurers with good hands or claim to be neighborly that won't have a clue what a valued form is. If they don't know, it might be time to pick a new agent. ;-).

 

[11top]

She said there was no reason to do them individually. Not sure if that was the best advice.

That is a dangerous wide-open statement. There may indeed be good reasons for scheduling under an inland marine valued form:

1. You won't have to prove the value of your loss at the time of loss.
2. You can insure the item for its current market value and not what you paid for it or its replacement cost.

This may not be important if your item's current value is easy to prove. But if you have a 1-off or a rarity, it may be quite difficult to collect its true worth.

 

[bodia]

That is a dangerous wide-open statement. There may indeed be good reasons for scheduling under an inland marine valued form:

1. You won't have to prove the value of your loss at the time of loss.
2. You can insure the item for its current market value and not what you paid for it or its replacement cost.

This may not be important if your item's current value is easy to prove. But if you have a 1-off or a rarity, it may be quite difficult to collect its true worth.

Thanks Steve! You would be the boss! Can you write a policy in IL?

 

[11top]

No insurance company is going to let you value it at over three times what you paid for it. That bill of sale is the documentation they are going to want.

An original 1959 Les Paul Standard was under $300 in 1959. I guarantee you that instrument can be insured for at least $200,000. And on a valued (agreed value) form, it contractually states that the value is set when the policy is written, not at time of loss.

I realize that I have used an extreme example. Also, note that I keep using the term "valued." Simply scheduling without a valued form is NOT enough in many cases.

 

[11top]

Thanks Steve! You would be the boss! Can you write a policy in IL?

Maybe (must be licensed in each state) but if not, I can steer you in the right direction. I'm happy to offer advice to my guitar buds. .

 

[rugerpc]

My comments concern the value of the guitar right now.

I am fully aware that the value may rise if it becomes in demand, rare or absolutely irreplaceable.

But none of those are the case right now are they?

If the situation changes, up the policy. But insuring it for $9k when it was just purchased for $3k....

And I was going to suggest he have it appraised by a reputable dealer...

 

[11top]

My comments concern the value of the guitar right now.

I am fully aware that the value may rise if it becomes in demand, rare or absolutely irreplaceable.

But none of those are the case right now are they?

If the situation changes, up the policy. But insuring it for $9k when it was just purchased for $3k....

My comments are not directed at this specific instrument, but insurance forms and how they apply in general. What one paid for something has nothing to do with insuring on either a replacement cost or market value basis. In either valuation, one will have to prove the value to the insurer. However, the keys are 1). What is the valuation (i.e. Replacement or MV) in the form/contract, and 2) when do you prove the value (when insured vrs. time of the loss).

With a scheduled valued form, you establish the current market value, and it is set when written. Win win.

Market values certainly seem to be down, but an instrument's current value can still greatly exceed its original price.