59/09s with 4-conductor wiring, can I use resistors for the coil split?

[Twinfan]

I've just picked up some 59/09s for my ME1, and the pickups have the 4-conductor wiring - red/white/black/ground. Looking at the wiring diagram for the Custom models with toggle, it looks like the pickups have opposing magnetic polarities(?) so some trickery is required on the push/pull so that instead of always switching the ground from coil to coil, on the neck pickup you're switching the hot (i.e. the ground is fixed):

http://www.prsguitars.com/csc/schematics/schem08/custom3waytoggle.pdf

If that's the case, does that mean I cannot use the 1.1k and 2.2k resistors for a partial split as on the DGT and MC58 models? I guess I could use one for the bridge pickup but not for the neck?

http://www.prsguitars.com/csc/schematics/2012/mc58_2012.pdf

Any help greatly appreciated!

 

[John Beef]

Wow, that's a great question. You've stumped me, I'd love to know too.

 

[wardog]

I would give it a try and see what you get. But, if PRS does not have them on there for their schematic, then you should go with that. I am not sure of the function of the resistors, but someone else maybe able to chime in. If you did it, keep resistors in place and solder white leads from pickups to the post as indicated in first schematic.

Let us know what happens.

 

[John Beef]

I am not sure of the function of the resistors, but someone else maybe able to chime in.

Instead of completely killing one coil and having the other full on, the resistors let some of the 2nd coil come through instead of killing it completely. The result is, the volume drop is dimished significantly and you get a fuller, more realistic single coil tone.

 

[Twinfan]

^ exactly what John said.

The only option seems to be to wire the pickups in as per a MC58, but then I'd have both pickups out of phase in the middle position. Not ideal.

I know enough about wiring to know that just throwing them in there in this case isn't going to work as I would hope, and given that the PRS wiring diagram does not have makes me think that it's not possible to have them with flipped magnet pickups?

 

[John Beef]

Bumping an old thread because the 2012 Navarro wiring is what we want here.

http://www.prsguitars.com/csc/schematics/2012/navarro_2012.pdf

I am planning to do something similar with my SE Lowery and will report back.

 

[Twinfan]

Thanks John. I have my ME wired with the '3waytoggle' schematic from my original post and it works perfectly. This is how the guitar the pickups came from was wired.

The Navarro HFS Treble/Vintage bass pickups seem to be non-standard according to the schematic. They have braided cables rather than plastic coverings and it appears that they don't have flipped magnets, so they can use the 'splits with resistors' wiring. The giveaway is the 3-way toggle wire colours - bridge black/neck black on the schematic I'm using and bridge black/neck white on the Navarro.......

 

[John Beef]

You're not using the resistors, then?

I think the Navarro is using regular ol HFS/VB pickups. The way I'm reading the Navarro 2012 schematic is the hot from the VB is the white wire and the hot from the HFS is the black wire. This would indicate to me that the pickups are the regular ones that work with the rotary. In both cases the red wire is the split wire, which has the resistors wired on the push/pull. I would guess the bridge ground (white) and neck ground (black) would both just be soldered off to ground somewhere. Well, it's what I plan to try out... I'll leave a note here after it's done.

 

[Twinfan]

Nope, I'm not using resistors in my ME. My 59/09 pickups came from a Custom 22 with 3-way and have 4-conductor wiring, and as stock these have opposing polarity magnets in them.

You're right in your wire colour analysis of the Navarro, but a regular HFS/VB pairing from a Custom 24 would one flipped magnet and non-braided wire. If I followed this wiring for my guitar, I would have pickups out-of-phase in the middle position. (By the way, the Navarro wiring is the same as the MC58 wiring I posted - I think Navarro pickups are therefore HFS/VB constructed without the magnet flip and with McCarty-style braided wire shield).

It all boils down to what pickups you have and where they came from /what the spec is. Anyone with 59/09s from a Custom with 4-conductor wiring will have the magnet flip issue I have. The fact that the Navarro pickups have been built as non-standard says to me that at least a magnet flip is needed for me to use the resistors.

What pickups are you fitting to your SE Lowery?

 

[John Beef]

I'm going to start with a DiMarzio Steve's Special in the bridge and a SE humbucker in the neck. I'm just sort of trying something out based on cosmetics! I have a set of zebra SE pickups Sergio traded me, and the SS is zebra coil too, from a friend who wasn't using it. We'll see how it goes. I really like SE pickups in the neck position generally, and had a SS in downtuned guitar several years ago which worked well. the Lowery will look pretty rockin' with zebra coils and creme rings.

However, I have an older set of round bobbin 59/09s on the way and if the zebra coil pickups don't sound good, I will put them in the Lowery. I will also possibly buy covers for them (or use a set I already have if they fit). These 59/09s were out of a CU24 so the magnet should be flipped for the rotary/blade. If I get this far with it, and i the middle position is out of phase, I can easily flip the magnet back around again since they're open coil.

If those don't sound good... we'll see what happens next!