Will The Lunchbox And Small Wattage Heads/Combos Ever Go Away?

[aknow11]

Our Definitions Are In Line.

I Have A Friedman BE 100. Great Amp, Love It For What It Does. It Has An Exceptional Master Volume And Sounds Wonderful At Volume As Well As Whisper Quiet And Anywhere In Between. When You Start Messing With Power Sections, Tubes, etc The Sound Is Not Going To Be The Same. The Response Is Not Going To Be The Same. People Buy These Little Amps Hoping They Will Be The Same Because They Are Smaller And More Convenient, etc But They Aren't The Same. I Can't Tell You How Many People I Know Who Have Went Down This Rabbit Hole Trying To Shrink Everything Down And Simplify While At The Same Time Wanting The Big Sound And Just Can't Get It. A 20 Watt Amp And 6 Inch Monitors Isn't Going To Provide what a 100 Or 50 Watt Amp And A 4x12 Will Deliver. (That Is Simply An Analogy)

This Too Loud, Too Big, Oh My Aching Back Trend We Are Living In Is Silly To Me Personally. So Many Big Amps Have Such Great Master Volumes And Other Options In The Amps Themselves To Utilize (Headphone Option, Etc) So I Don't Get It. I See So Many Buy And Then Quickly Sell Them. I Guess It Is A Way For Amp Companies To Introduce Their Product At Much Lower Price Points To People So There Is That.

I Have Yet To Play Any Small Amp That I Preferred At Low Volume Over It's Big Brother Counterpart. Heck, The Diezel Herbert Is Possibly The Best Bedroom Volume Amp I Have Ever Owned And It Is 150+ Watts Depending On Power Tubes.

Why do you capitalize every word. Isn't that tiresome?

 

[Black Dog]

I have a Yamaha THR30 II that I use for practice. It's a great lunchbox amp.

 

[Bogner]

Why do you capitalize every word. Isn't that tiresome?

No, I Am Very Fit And Healthy And Have Been Doing It For Decades. What Is Tiring To Me Is Doing It Your Way.

Did You Have A Thread Topic Comment By Chance? I Seemed To Have Missed It If You Did.

 

[aamefford]

No, I Am Very Fit And Healthy And Have Been Doing It For Decades. What Is Tiring To Me Is Doing It Your Way.

Did You Have A Thread Topic Comment By Chance? I Seemed To Have Missed It If You Did.

Lol, I know you know that it makes a few of us itch. Not that our itch should concern you in the least.

Uhhh, on topic, uhhh I think I maybe really want a PRS HDRX20. Although there is a PRS “C” amp semi local that has me wondering if it would work for me…. That and an Archon 50.

 

[Bogner]

Lol, I know you know that it makes a few of us itch. Not that our itch should concern you in the least.

Uhhh, on topic, uhhh I think I maybe really want a PRS HDRX20. Although there is a PRS “C” amp semi local that has me wondering if it would work for me…. That and an Archon 50.

I Am Not Out To Be A Bother To Anybody. I Simply Got Tired Of Going Back And Correcting Every Word Rather Than Just Typing How I Type And Being Ok With It.

Back On Topic - If You Can Snag An Original Archon 50 I Would Go That Route Over The New Built Ones. I Think It Is A Much Better Amp. I Have Both The 100 And 50 (Originals) And I Liked The Original 50 Significantly More Over The New Version. The Archon Is A Magnificent Amp With A High Gain And Clean Sound (For Me) That Stacks Up Against Anything Else I Own Essentially.

 

[aamefford]

I Am Not Out To Be A Bother To Anybody. I Simply Got Tired Of Going Back And Correcting Every Word Rather Than Just Typing How I Type And Being Ok With It.

Back On Topic - If You Can Snag An Original Archon 50 I Would Go That Route Over The New Built Ones. I Think It Is A Much Better Amp. I Have Both The 100 And 50 (Originals) And I Liked The Original 50 Significantly More Over The New Version. The Archon Is A Magnificent Amp With A High Gain And Clean Sound (For Me) That Stacks Up Against Anything Else I Own Essentially.

No bother, just good natured ribbing. I wold go with an “original” Archon should I choose to do so. Do you or anyone else here know much about the “C” and “H” amps? I know the letters pertain to the brand of transformer. I know little else about them. There’s a “C” sorta local, though out of my price range for now.

Edit to add - does a full size 50 watt into a single 1x12 make sense? I’ve got a nice Mesa open back wide body that fits my area pretty well.

 

[Bogner]

No bother, just good natured ribbing. I wold go with an “original” Archon should I choose to do so. Do you or anyone else here know much about the “C” and “H” amps? I know the letters pertain to the brand of transformer. I know little else about them. There’s a “C” sorta local, though out of my price range for now.

Edit to add - does a full size 50 watt into a single 1x12 make sense? I’ve got a nice Mesa open back wide body that fits my area pretty well.

I Am Not As Familiar/Experienced With The "C" And "H" Amps. From A Cabinet Perspective, I Am A 4X12 Cabinet Person. I Rarely Play Anything Smaller And Usually If/When I Do It Is In Addition To A 4X12. If The Speaker Can Handle The Wattage Then It Is Safe But I Am Not Sure It Is The Best Sounding Option Available. Of Course This Is All Subjective. Depending On Your Desired Tone And Volume Level, I Can See The Cabinet You Make Mention Of Being A Nice Pairing.

 

[Huggy Love]

As an OG and staunch traditionalist you'd think I'd feel the same way, but exactly the opposite, I don't think they're going anywhere. If anything see them being a solid category of amps to stay with real usefulness.

I own a Mark V/25, and although it's not a bedroom amp by any means, it serves a real purpose for me, and mic'd I can hang in any situation. The last gig I played was with my Roland cube street mic'd at an outdoor venue and it filled the park nicely.

I can see if you're a steady gigging player, in a loud situation, that wants stand alone power, but not everybody is or avoids the PA in live situations. The best thing about them is the quality of sound/tone many (like my Mark V) put out, makes them a valuable tool for people like me.

But the bottom line is that attenuators or high powered amps turned all the way down don't work for me at all, and as many times as I've tried on several different amps, at lower volumes the tone and response is worthless to me.

 

[László]

If someone ever stuffs a tube guitar amp into a 1955 Davy Crockett lunch box. I'll get one and be King of the Wild Frontier!

"Have you heard Laz play? His chops are so mediocre."

"Yeah, but he's the King of the Wild Frontier with that amp."

"So?"

'Dude...it's good to be king."

 

[andy474x]

I don't think either small amps or big amps will go away, but I predict small amps will continue to be the more popular format. I don't put a lot of faith in 1 and 5 watt amps that are trying to emulate something much larger, but getting into the 15-30 watt class, really many amps can be working at their peak performance at the volumes that modern players want, or are limited to by venues. Depends on the amp though, some are more toys, others are about serious business.

The small PRS amps (MT15, Sonzera 20 and HDRX 20) are the latter, some very authoritative sounding amps that punch like they're 40-50 watts. The only real problem I had with the small format for any of them was that for the MT15, they jammed a lot of complex circuitry into the amp with the two channels and many gain stages, and the earlier revisions had some noise floor issues. Surprisingly powerful, but may have been better off in a medium size chassis.

 

[JasonE]

I think these amps will be around for a good while. The Fender Champ has had a pretty darn good run. I have an Orange Micro Terror that I have carried as a backup in case something happened to my amp at a gig. For the price it was sort of a no brainer. I have a friend that carries one with him for the same reason. I got the idea from him. I know it is only half tube amp but it sounds plenty good and is loud enough to get me through a gig. I have tested it out at a couple of practices but have not had to resort to using it. A couple of guys really liked the sound of it and told me I should use it when playing out. It is a lot less weight to lug around.

These small amps can be great for home players as well as a backup amp if it has enough wattage.

 

[László]

I don't put a lot of faith in 1 and 5 watt amps that are trying to emulate something much larger, but getting into the 15-30 watt class, really many amps can be working at their peak performance at the volumes that modern players want, or are limited to by venues.

Good point, though going by wattage alone can be a bit confusing, because some low-to-medium power designs are very punchy and loud, and others rated at the same wattage are relatively quiet.

There's also the question of how to measure power, such as peak power vs RMS power - it's really the Wild West when it comes to standards of measurement.

I think there's a better solution to the problem of home playing, and being useful in multiple venues, than buying a tiny amp. I'll get to that below. But first a few observations about volume:

I mentioned that Wattage alone can be a good or bad measure of volume potental.

The AC30, a truly loud amp, is 30 Watts. So is the DG30, a Matchless C30, a Magnatone Twilighter, my '66 Ampeg Reverberocket II, and many other amps that can handle real, live stage, big-boy/big-girl playing. My original Hot Cat 30 might have been the loudest amp I've ever had.

Even an AC15 is fairly loud, so is a Deluxe.

My 30 Watt HXDA can be opened up, and it's loud when you do that, but it's easily tamed by the Master Volume. It's a great MV amp.

On the other hand, there are amps in the 35-50 Watt range that aren't all that loud.

My 35 Watt Mesa Blue Angel wasn't loud enough to be useful onstage in a band with another guitar player and keys. I tried it several times. The amp didn't have a Master Volume, it was old school. But: Couldn't hear it over the bass and drums. Even miked up, cranked, I found it difficult to hear what I was doing in the stage wedges; I depended on the amp as well as the stage monitors to hear what I was doing, and it didn't get me there.

My 50 Watt Fillmore is loud enough to be useful onstage, but it isn't louder than my 30 Watt amps. Nor was my '67 50 Watt Bassman.

If you want an amp that can handle home, studio, small rooms, as well as larger venues - or playing outdoor gigs, which require more power because there aren't walls to reinforce the sound due to reflections - there are some real-deal solutions:

1. Amps that can be switched to multiple Wattage: Here's an example. My 100 Watt Lone Star can go to 50 Watts or 10 Watts. 10 Watts is very quiet, though the amp somehow manages to sound pretty much like itself. The 50 Watt setting is my studio usual. The 100 Watt setting can handle any stage. My son used one in several recent stadium concert gigs (though it was miked up as well), at some medium venues for more intimate shows, at rehearsals (geez this band rehearsed 12 hours a day before the tour) and in the studio. Amps like this are very versatile. My Two-Rocks could also be switched to a lower power output.

Similarly, the Fillmore can go from 50 to 25 Watts. Very useful, though I tend to run it at 50. My Mark V could be switched down to 10 Watts, too, if memory serves. I have to give Mesa credit for making amps that are extremely useful at several settings. That Mark V had so many great-sounding options that it made my head spin. Granted, I moved on to more specialized amps, but even set to only 10 Watts that thing still sounded pretty darn good!

The great thing about multiple wattage amps is that they sound good at all settings, loud to quiet, because you're still getting the output tubes involved; it isn't all on the preamp tubes that tend to sound fizzy. In other words, you're getting everything going in the amp. I like this solution best because it can take you anywhere.

2. There are excellent Master Volume amps. My beef with MV is that the power tubes are often left out of the party. But some sound excellent. Lots of amps, like my Mesas, have both switchable power and master volumes. Generally, I can work out something that's reasonably controlled in volume, but still gets the output tubes to the party to an extent. As previously mentioned, the HXDA has an excellent MV. So did my Two-Rocks.

3. There are power scaling amps. They can sound great, though I find that most are not all THAT different in tone from a good MV amp.

Finally, if all you're doing is playing alone in your basement or bedroom, and you don't need the ability to handle live venues, or you don't record at higher volumes, a very small amp can be great. There's a very low power amp made by Audio Kitchen in the UK that some pretty famous producers are using for recording, and it sounds wonderful. I think it's called the Little Chopper.

 

[markd21]

Yhe only one I ever really liked was the Egnater Tweaker 15. Cathode bias - I used to run EL34s in mine. Combined with an oversized 1x12 - Mesa or Rivera - it sounded great.

 

[jtbadge]

I also loved the Tweaker. Really usable master volume and the different voices were each implemented pretty well.

I am curious to try the 15 watt 5150 LBX-S with channel switching from clean to modern high gain - may be my next amp. Switches down to 3.something watts and I hear the volume and gain controls have really nice sweeps.

 

[BrianC]

I hear what you are saying, I have a Friedman BE 50 DLX and a Marshall JVM 100.

BUT, I also have a Friedman JJ Jr that kills. It does everything. BEST bang for the buck. If the house burnt down and I had to rebuy my gear that would be the one.