Trem set up questions

[aamefford]

I’m working on / learning to set up my new to me Santana III. I have the bridge and strings parallel as noted by Skitchy in the PRS videos. The maple top is pretty curved, and falls away from the bridge, so it is not parallel to the bottom of the bridge. I’ve attached a couple of photos. I’m really just looking for a bit of feedback for “looks good” or help me out with what’s wrong.

Also, setting intonation;
1) loosen the string first?
2) Is a clip on poly tune or a boss tu-3 accurate enough for intonation? (Best I’ve got for now)

Going to lighter gage strings:
It is currently strung with 11’s hyper seller, haven’t busted out the mic yet
I plan to go to 9’s as it was originally strung with 9’s when sold new.
1) this will affect the truss rod adjustment, the claw adjustment, intonation right?

Any and all feedback is helpful. I’m trying to learn to do my own routine work.

https://imgur.com/a/625NjPd

 

[Going Modal]

Looks to me like you could still tighten the screws in the tremolo claw a tiny bit to bring the tail-end of that bridge down just a hair further. Small adjustments at a time with this kind of stuff...

BUT, don't do that yet. If it's currently got 11's and you're going down to 9's, those 9's will be pulling up a lot less on that bridge and you'll likely have to do the opposite of what I just told you above. (You may find the bridge is pulled back towards the body with the 9's tuned up to pitch. If so, loosen the claw screws.)

Also, you can usually jump 1 string gauge up or down and not really worry about intonation; but jumping 2 string gauges you'll want to investigate that. You can adjust the intonation under regular string tension (especially would be likely OK with 9's, I use 10's and it's "eh" but hey I'm lazy sometimes) but loosening them to adjust the saddles always makes it easier. I do not know if a pedal tuner would be accurate enough... it might be, but I definitely wouldn't trust the job to a clip-on. I am lucky enough to have a digital Peterson tuner; others here might have suggestions on which tuner to rely on.

 

[aamefford]

Looks to me like you could still tighten the screws in the tremolo claw a tiny bit to bring the tail-end of that bridge down just a hair further. Small adjustments at a time with this kind of stuff...

It’s tough to get a good photo. You can see that the strings are pretty much parallel to the bridge. Pretty much dead nuts. The body curves down, away from the bridge. This photo kind of exaggerates that, though not much.

Which is most important, strings parallel to bridge, or bridge / body joint “looks right?”

Intonation - I welcome tuner suggestions. Smaller is better for my little “guitar corner.”

 

[Rider1260]

I use the pickup ring as a level line . ( horizon )
going from 11s to 9s will likely need a tweak of the truss rod.
No need to loosen strings to do intonation , you can use the Boss and you will be in the ballpark.

 

[JasonE]

Those photos make it look like the bridge is still pitched up a bit. I never loosen a string to set the intonation. I adjust it then retune that string. I would not depend on a clip on tuner for intonation setting. I use a strobe tuner, not everyone owns one of those though. I have an old analog tuner that has a real VU meter on it that works very well for setting intonation as well. I have had that thing for decades. It is probably my oldest piece of gear. My dad bought it for me when I was a kid when he bought me my first brand new guitar at a local shop and the guy showed me how to do a setup on it.

If you are going to change string gages, I would put the new strings on it before making any further adjustments on the guitar. The lighter strings are going to change everything you are adjusting. You may need to tweak the truss rod a bit, loosen it, since the strings will have less tension. You will have to adjust the trem claw for the lighter strings as well.

 

[aamefford]

I put the 9’s on today. I knew I’d have to loosen the claw, so I backed each side off 1.5 turns, just to start. Turned out to be almost dead nuts. I had to adjust the truss rod to add back a little relief. I ended up with .060 on the high E and .070 on the low E, which is more than I had with the 11’s (.05 high, .06 low E). The high E saddle is almost bottomed out. I’m gonna leave it for now. I may try and lower the six knife edge screws very slightly at some point.

Comments welcome.

 

[JasonE]

I put the 9’s on today. I knew I’d have to loosen the claw, so I backed each side off 1.5 turns, just to start. Turned out to be almost dead nuts. I had to adjust the truss rod to add back a little relief. I ended up with .060 on the high E and .070 on the low E, which is more than I had with the 11’s (.05 high, .06 low E). The high E saddle is almost bottomed out. I’m gonna leave it for now. I may try and lower the six knife edge screws very slightly at some point.

Comments welcome.

I usually set mine to .050 across all of the strings. That is a good playing action for me. Some guitars may be very slightly higher or lower but in that ballpark.

If you adjust the trem screws be very careful when doing it. Loosen the strings and only turn them a 1/4 turn at a time. Make sure to turn them all the same amount. You can't go my the screw head height on them to measure that they are all at the same height. The place the bridge makes contact with them is in the groove on the shaft of the screw. There can be some variance in them and that is why you have to use the groove. If you turn them all the same amount you should be okay. Bring the strings back up to pitch and check it again. Also watch the front edge of the bridge plate. It is possible to get the bridge low enough that it makes contact with the top when you use it heavily.

Adjusting the bridge height is a bit of a touchy thing to do but totally doable. I have done it to a good number of them using the process above. You just don't want to do it under tension. You can damage the knife edge on the trem plate and that gets expensive real fast.

 

[Lewguitar]

Here's some photos of how I set the floating trem on my Silver Sky:

Bar pressed down for dive bombing:

https://imgur.com/Xk91ApR

Bar floating:

https://imgur.com/spWVf8K

Bar pulled up to raise the pitch:

https://imgur.com/iQDiWF0

 

[aamefford]

I usually set mine to .050 across all of the strings. That is a good playing action for me. Some guitars may be very slightly higher or lower but in that ballpark.

If you adjust the trem screws be very careful when doing it. Loosen the strings and only turn them a 1/4 turn at a time. Make sure to turn them all the same amount. You can't go my the screw head height on them to measure that they are all at the same height. The place the bridge makes contact with them is in the groove on the shaft of the screw. There can be some variance in them and that is why you have to use the groove. If you turn them all the same amount you should be okay. Bring the strings back up to pitch and check it again. Also watch the front edge of the bridge plate. It is possible to get the bridge low enough that it makes contact with the top when you use it heavily.

Adjusting the bridge height is a bit of a touchy thing to do but totally doable. I have done it to a good number of them using the process above. You just don't want to do it under tension. You can damage the knife edge on the trem plate and that gets expensive real fast.

Thank you for the tips. I know John Mann has a video out there describing using a hex key to set the height. I’ll find that, and locate an appropriate hex key, and maybe one size down as well.

I’ll try less relief in the neck as well. I added a little more relief, as it seemed the lighter strings buzz a bit more. I think it is just my ham handed picking. The extra relief seemed to raise the action slightly.

@Lewguiitar - same time post! Thank you too!

 

[JasonE]

Thank you for the tips. I know John Mann has a video out there describing using a hex key to set the height. I’ll find that, and locate an appropriate hex key, and maybe one size down as well.

I’ll try less relief in the neck as well. I added a little more relief, as it seemed the lighter strings buzz a bit more. I think it is just my ham handed picking. The extra relief seemed to raise the action slightly.

@Lewguiitar - same time post! Thank you too!

Set the neck relieve separate of the bridge. What I mean by that is with the strings tuned up, use a good straight edge to see the relief or use the strings. I use the strings. If you have a capo, put it on the first fret and then use your right hand to fret the string at the last fret. Look at the neck compared to the string and locate the area with the biggest gap. I typically set them around .005 at that gap to the fret where it is. That will get you in a good zone. If you set it based off of where the bridge is you may end up with a bit of back bow and that will cause a lot of fret buzz when playing. I find that setting the neck completely straight give a bit of fret buzz as well. That little bit of relief that I use eliminates a good bit of that. Part of the equation is how hard you hit the strings when playing. If you are a heavy handed picker, you may need to set the over all action a little higher. I am a medium handed player and these measurements get me in a good spot to where I can then make minor adjustments to accommodate that exact guitar.

 

[Lewguitar]

Set the neck relieve separate of the bridge. What I mean by that is with the strings tuned up, use a good straight edge to see the relief or use the strings. I use the strings. If you have a capo, put it on the first fret and then use your right hand to fret the string at the last fret. Look at the neck compared to the string and locate the area with the biggest gap. I typically set them around .005 at that gap to the fret where it is. That will get you in a good zone. If you set it based off of where the bridge is you may end up with a bit of back bow and that will cause a lot of fret buzz when playing. I find that setting the neck completely straight give a bit of fret buzz as well. That little bit of relief that I use eliminates a good bit of that. Part of the equation is how hard you hit the strings when playing. If you are a heavy handed picker, you may need to set the over all action a little higher. I am a medium handed player and these measurements get me in a good spot to where I can then make minor adjustments to accommodate that exact guitar.

Yes. Do all of that first. New strings too, of the gauge you're going to use from now on.

The individual string saddles will need to be intonated and adjusted for height again after you settle on the final tremolo adjustment.

It'll be an ongoing process for a while.

It's a learning experience for sure getting a trem set right.

Generally, I set mine to dive bomb until the strings are slack (although I rarely do that) and to raise the pitch of the 12th fret harmonics a 1/2 step to a full step up when I pull up on the bar.

And when I'm not using the trem I just make sures the action is right and the saddles are intonated for whatever I've adjusted the trem to.

 

[aamefford]

Set the neck relieve separate of the bridge. What I mean by that is with the strings tuned up, use a good straight edge to see the relief or use the strings. I use the strings. If you have a capo, put it on the first fret and then use your right hand to fret the string at the last fret. Look at the neck compared to the string and locate the area with the biggest gap. I typically set them around .005 at that gap to the fret where it is. That will get you in a good zone. If you set it based off of where the bridge is you may end up with a bit of back bow and that will cause a lot of fret buzz when playing. I find that setting the neck completely straight give a bit of fret buzz as well. That little bit of relief that I use eliminates a good bit of that. Part of the equation is how hard you hit the strings when playing. If you are a heavy handed picker, you may need to set the over all action a little higher. I am a medium handed player and these measurements get me in a good spot to where I can then make minor adjustments to accommodate that exact guitar.

I’ve been following the Music Nomad method, which says fret the first and 12th, .006 feeler at the 6th. It seems your method would end up with a slightly flatter neck, which would possibly bring the action down a little bit, and help with the intonation. Currently the low E saddle is back almost to coil bind on the string - edit- saddle screw, not string…

Yes. Do all of that first. New strings too, of the gauge you're going to use from now on.

The individual string saddles will need to be intonated and adjusted for height again after you settle on the final tremolo adjustment.

It'll be an ongoing process for a while.

It's a learning experience for sure getting a trem set right.

Generally, I set mine to dive bomb until the strings are slack (although I rarely do that) and to raise the pitch of the 12th fret harmonics a 1/2 step to a full step up when I pull up on the bar.

And when I'm not using the trem I just make sures the action is right and the saddles are intonated for whatever I've adjusted the trem to.

Thanks for this. I rarely use the trem, but I do want it set up properly.

Note to all, this is a new to me 20 year old guitar. I’m just trying to get it set back to spec (it actually is in spec now with the 9’s and action) and then fine tuned to me.

 

[aamefford]

Many thanks to all here. I’m learning a lot, which was the plan. I’ve flattened out the neck a bit more. Fretted at first and 23 or 24, a .006” feeler fits easily at the 8th fret. Intonation is decent, using the Boss TU-3 pedal tuner. The action came down a little. Roughly .060” at low E, and maybe .055” at high E. I’ve left the back cover off, and the truss rod cover off. I think I’ll go just slightly flatter on the neck, just to experiment.

I plan to pull strings and springs at the next string change. The bridge is behaving relatively well, pretty stable even with mild sharp and flat on the trem, and even with pretty aggressive dives. I do want to check the height of the trem screws with the 2.5 mm hex method. I may go ahead and pull the trem screws and get a good look at the bridge “knife edges.” It’s been in unknown hands for 20 years after all.

It currently has 9’s and 4 springs. Any reason or benefit to go to 3 springs? Any reason not to go to 3 springs? For reference, it had 11’s and 4 springs when I bought it. It was originally sold with 9’s, so I’m just going back to stock baseline.

Thanks again to all.

 

[JasonE]

Many thanks to all here. I’m learning a lot, which was the plan. I’ve flattened out the neck a bit more. Fretted at first and 23 or 24, a .006” feeler fits easily at the 8th fret. Intonation is decent, using the Boss TU-3 pedal tuner. The action came down a little. Roughly .060” at low E, and maybe .055” at high E. I’ve left the back cover off, and the truss rod cover off. I think I’ll go just slightly flatter on the neck, just to experiment.

I plan to pull strings and springs at the next string change. The bridge is behaving relatively well, pretty stable even with mild sharp and flat on the trem, and even with pretty aggressive dives. I do want to check the height of the trem screws with the 2.5 mm hex method. I may go ahead and pull the trem screws and get a good look at the bridge “knife edges.” It’s been in unknown hands for 20 years after all.

It currently has 9’s and 4 springs. Any reason or benefit to go to 3 springs? Any reason not to go to 3 springs? For reference, it had 11’s and 4 springs when I bought it. It was originally sold with 9’s, so I’m just going back to stock baseline.

Thanks again to all.

Sounds like you are getting it in the right zone. I usually set my neck relief at .005" and adjust from there. Some guitars will let you go a little lower and some need to come up just a bit.

If you start looking at the pivot screws, I can't stress this enough, look at the slots in them, not the heads. I have found some minor differences in ones that others have adjusted that I have fixed. The baseplate knife edge rests in the slots. That is where things have to line up. You may be able to see the knife edges enough by just taking the strings and springs off and pulling back on it. I probably wouldn't take the screws out unless you think you have an issue with the knife edges. You would probably have to replace the trem if the knife edges are messed up.

 

[Broseph]

MannMade videos have taught me so much on how to set up a PRS/MannMade trem. I loved it so much that I installed one on a stratocaster

 

[aamefford]

I’m not opposed to putting on a Mann Made. I’ll do exactly that if the knife edges on the one I have look dodgy.

 

[aamefford]

So… I felt the pickups were a little unbalanced, so I decided to adjust them to PRS spec, and go from there. I have now learned what happens when you back one of the adjustment screws too far out. I had to remove the strings, and unthinkingly trimmed the high e string, so now I need to swing by the local and pick up a couple sets of 9’s…. Trying to put that short, stiff spring onto the screw, get it lined up and threaded into the pickup dog ear is non trivial for sure! I launched it and found it twice before hitting on the idea to wrap a thin piece of painter’s tape around the spring. I used the painter’s tape because it was handy, I’d taped off under the trem and under the pickup cavity. The tape slows it down when it launches, the little blue “flag” on the spring makes it easier to find, and it gives sort of a handle for wiggling the spring&screw assembly around while you try and thread it onto the dog ear. I think next time I’ll loop some dental floss or high e string through the spring to compress it to coil bind, so it doesn’t interfere with getting the screw started in the dog ear. Any other good ideas for doing that fiddly operation?

 

[JasonE]

So… I felt the pickups were a little unbalanced, so I decided to adjust them to PRS spec, and go from there. I have now learned what happens when you back one of the adjustment screws too far out. I had to remove the strings, and unthinkingly trimmed the high e string, so now I need to swing by the local and pick up a couple sets of 9’s…. Trying to put that short, stiff spring onto the screw, get it lined up and threaded into the pickup dog ear is non trivial for sure! I launched it and found it twice before hitting on the idea to wrap a thin piece of painter’s tape around the spring. I used the painter’s tape because it was handy, I’d taped off under the trem and under the pickup cavity. The tape slows it down when it launches, the little blue “flag” on the spring makes it easier to find, and it gives sort of a handle for wiggling the spring&screw assembly around while you try and thread it onto the dog ear. I think next time I’ll loop some dental floss or high e string through the spring to compress it to coil bind, so it doesn’t interfere with getting the screw started in the dog ear. Any other good ideas for doing that fiddly operation?

I used to hate getting those screws in through the spring. I have done it enough times now that I figured out a way to hold it with my left hand and compress the spring and put the screw in with my right hand. It would be next to impossible to explain it. It took me a while to work the mechanics of it out. Stew Mac makes a device to assist with this as well.

Humbucker Helpers - StewMac

Our handy assembly clips make humbucking pickup installation a whole lot easier.

www.stewmac.com

 

[show_a_little_faith]

Using an alligator clip to hold compression on the spring can work too

 

[JasonE]

Using an alligator clip to hold compression on the spring can work too

That is a good tip. I have not seen that one before.