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Deleted member 5962
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you're so weak! No willpower!!!
Super Models (plug in)
- Thread starter BWV548
- Start date
Being the broken record I am, I’ll say it’s not the real “raise the hair on the back of your neck” tone, but these models sound pretty nice. Also, there isn’t much latency that I can feel. There’s a little, but it doesn’t ruin the feel.
Leif Robertson
New Member
Are we discussing those amp simms? Ok Ill try them (49 bucks is cheap) but I really get this yucky feeling using amp simms. I don't understand why your using them with a miced amp though. I mean you want another amp buy it or get a Kettner (without the 600 watts) and use it with a real tube amp. Then you have the best instances of all your fav. amps with tube feel. That say solution if I was going to do that.
Software has yet to impress me in regards to replacing a real amp. Especially the cleans are so fake or feel fake to me. Am I off topic here? These are amp simms right for my daw?
Ok Ill try them...
Software has yet to impress me in regards to replacing a real amp. Especially the cleans are so fake or feel fake to me. Am I off topic here? These are amp simms right for my daw?
Ok Ill try them...
Leif Robertson
New Member
If you have any latency and are using logic X. Go to plug in I/O. Run the test. It will tell you if you have any latency and what level. Then set the level in audio prefs to match by - and the number. I can explain this better if anyone wants to know how to kill it.
Leif Robertson
New Member
That would be interesting to here but Im too lazy. I thought the entire point of amp simms was to just go direct and achieve a decent tone after the mix and playing them clean usually doesn't have the feel. Sure you can use them but never until the mix would they even sound decent. I find playing through them to be boring.
Of course I have not attempted these PRS sim models yet. But I have slate (the entire package) and Ive tried the other major players and never liked any of them. My Rigs are always miced and ready. I suppose if it was 3am and I don't want to wake up the neighbors I may use one as a marker to later flush out.
Haha! For years I’ve been the main “amp models suck” guy here. I record only real tube amps for final tracks on real projects. Never, ever modeled amps.
But the models are nice when I’m working out ideas late at night. Sort of a scratchpad.
In any case, good to have you aboard!
You can reduce it to a low level that way, but not kill it completely. There’s always going to be some round-trip latency. It’s OK. I don’t use plugins for final tracks. It’s fine for a scratchpad.
Using the processing on my UA Apollo I can get lower latency, but of course that’s only when working with UAD plugins. I don’t even use their amp sims, though I do use their various other processors (have a bunch of their amp sims).
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Leif Robertson
New Member
Ha Ha! I usually prefer tube myself. I hate amp sims and all that. I did however here and watch a lot of demos and supposedly the kettner amps have away to actually take any amp and run it through a process of grabbing an instance of any amp a lot of which no one can tell the difference. I posted about it (being a tube guy only) out of curiosity as I hate line 6 and all that crap wth a passion. The end result was to get a kettner amp without the watts and run it through a real tube and that would have so many possibilities in the studio and live and still have the tube feel since your using tubes with it in this case.Haha! For years I’ve been the main “amp models suck” guy here. I record only real tube amps for final tracks on real projects. Never, ever modeled amps.
But the models are nice when I’m working out ideas late at night. Sort of a scratchpad.
In any case, good to have you aboard!
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Leif Robertson
New Member
You’re not alone.
Yep! Ill have to post my rigs. Good for you! How do you like the Grissom? Id like to try that baby out. Yeah Im much like you. I keep my amps cabs miced even when Im not recording. Just keep it set up and when the moment strikes just open my daw lol. I notice you also have a condenser set up in the back for nuance if Im not mistaken.
Thanks! Glad to be aboard!
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Leif Robertson
New Member
Yeah UAD has become pretty much the standard these days and I can't stand latency so I do what I have too to get low level. Im using slate (which is good) and focusrite 18i8 (yeah I know not so pro). lol. I actually think the preamps in the focusrite are not so terrible as you may think but I am definitely upgrading to Apollo 8 (haven't decided but good to know they are chainable..probably get an 8..the twin doesn't even have enough inputs to record my trio if we record here).
So I'm looking forward to using the more industry standard UAD soon. I don't know. Ive been able to fix the latency when my track is loaded with bus and plug ins and yeah I hate slate amp sims too. So I do not expect to be using UAD amp sims either..
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The Grissom amp is wonderful. It took me a little while to understand how to get the most out of it - the DG30 is a specialized amp, suited to Grissom’s style of play, and isn’t designed to be operated like a typical master volume amp, where you look to the preamp for the gain, and then just control the volume with the master.
With the Grissom, the amp needs to breathe, and the master interacts with the gain control. So a lot of folks try one and don’t get it. The secret is to turn the master up, and use the gain control to control the volume of the amp as well as the grind. Then control how much gain you want with the guitar volume.
Just like the amps the greats used back in the day, before master volume controls existed. It’s a pro amp, not a bedroom amp, but I have a feeling that you’d be able to appreciate what it does.
Actually, that mic is a super-nice ribbon made by Rode, called the NTR, and you’re right, I use it as a room mic, but that pic was taken with the mic out of position so it’d fit in the pic. I like the NTR a ton - it’s more natural sounding than my Royer because it has better high frequency response, and it’s a really fantastic room mic. Sounds good on acoustic instruments, guitar cabs, you-name-it.
It’s nice on vocals, too, especially female singers. But I also use condensers a lot.
I think the focusrite stuff is pretty damn good! I’m still using a ‘94 Focusrite Red preamp, and spent years and years with a Red 7 channel strip, back when focusrite gear was almost too expensive. Back in the 90s, the ad music business was hot, and I could splurge. But the bottom line is that Focusrite certainly knows how to make pro gear, and that know-how is reflected in their more moderately priced offerings. People don’t give them enough credit!
While I like the preamps in the Apollo, and use them, I’m not sure that they offer much advantage over the recent moderately priced focusrite gear, except for the ability to use them as Unison preamps with the UAD plugins that change their character a bit.
My only criticism of the Apollo preamps is, well, when you really push a higher end preamp, it compresses and begins to get gritty in a pleasing way, and that’s where the character comes in. The Apollo preamps can get a little brittle when pushed hard. Obviously, backing off the gain makes them sound nice, and the software gives them character (you can push the software preamp without overdoing it on the hardware).
But make no apologies for the focusrite you have!
I have some of the Slate stuff, and it’s quite good. I think my son used some of their plugins on the new 30 Seconds to Mars record (he produced a couple tracks on the record, and played on it), so it’s definitely pro software.
Many of the UAD plugins are available as third party plugins that run natively. Plugin Alliance, Softube, and others make the exact same software for native and UAD platforms.
With today’s computers, I don’t think the main advantage of UAD is the ability to offload processing power to the UAD card. I think its main advantage is the ability to run software to make the Unison preamps sound very close to the real stuff so you can track without noticeable latency.
However, the Apollo system has excellent AD and DA converters. In my son’s studio, he and his bandmate just switched from an Apogee Symphony system to a couple of Apollos, one of which is the small portable one, which says a lot.
It’s almost like there are too many great choices! I’ve been really impressed with some of the recent Waves plugins that do very cool things beyond emulating classic gear, and the Plugin Alliance stuff is also both creative and great at solving specialized problems. And of course I have a lot of UAD stuff.
We have a plethora of cheap and excellent choices I’d have killed for when I first got in the business back in the days of analog gear and tape machines running in synch with analog video machines, that I had to lay out serious dough for.
PS - if you do buy an Apollo, get one with as much UAD processing power as you can afford. Their better plugins chew up the horsepower.
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Leif Robertson
New Member
Yeah I have mostly old BF amps so I know exactly what your talking about and thats what I prefer. I was looking at the grissom online, I think Id like to try it out.
Nice! Yeah you can't go wrong with those mics. There are a lot of nice mics out these days. Ive got some expensive and not expensive at all that all sound nice! Female vocals...that makes sense. We have female backups in my trio. They make some of the gigs but in fairness they only sing on 4 songs.
I thought I was right about their preamps! I get pretty decent stuff. Wow your son produced tracks on a major label huh? Pretty impressive.
Yeah my old guitar teacher, he used analog. I remember watching him punch in and out and Im like isn't that kinda difficult. Now everyone likes records again. Gonna have our upcoming studio album remastered for a Vinyl LP too!
I didn't know I could get UAD plug ins without purchasing an apollo unit. Hmm thats kinda a game changer for me. Im gonna look them up now. You'll have to sometime tell me your favs. lol. Yeah so your son is using one apollo twin huh? Thats cool. I wish it had more inputs.
Really cool meeting you! Thanks for responding!
Yeah, the focusrite stuff’s underrated, and certainly nothing to sneeze at!
My son’s using an Apollo Twin as a portable thing with a laptop, and at the studio has an Apollo 8. I think they network them, too. He’s co-produced a Warner Brothers record for his band, some things for 30 Seconds to Mars on Virgin (he’s gotten a few gold records working with them previously as an engineer), and stuff for other folks who are signed with various labels. Knows his stuff - he and I share a lot of information, and he teaches me new concepts all the time.
If you check out the UAD website, you’ll see that a number of their software titles were developed by Brainworx. You can get the native versions from Plugin Alliance. Same with Softube, on their website.
There are, of course, some titles that can’t be purchased in native form. Listen, I love the UAD stuff I have, but I have these other things as well.
One thing about the UAD versions is that the processing is upsampled, so for example, for my ad work I record at 48KHz, but the UAD processing is done at 96, so they sound a little bit more analog, but I’m splitting sonic hairs here.
Leif Robertson
New Member
Yeah you told me about your son and 30 seconds to mars...Thats Awesome, Im sure your proud and pick his brain quite a bit! Glad to know he got some gold records too. I did know they were chainable but yeah if your going mobile that makes sense..Especially if your recording live events etc. I guess id get one but there would be on occasion where Im just gonna need more than two tracks simultaneous like if the band plays here so Im going for the 8 but maybe in no rush and gonna try these plug ins out first with the focusrite...Yeah thanks for the info!!!!! Thats major. I also am grabbing a Grissom amp like I think Im gonna order it tomorrow. I usually swear away from signature stuff but I think this would suit me fine from what I heard and research. Cant play one locally. I don't know why but GC and Sam Ash (only carry like the 2 channel on occasion and I just got the Sonzera 20 which is a great portable amp IMO.) It compliments my twin nicely so thats what Im currently using although Ive got plenty of other amps. lol. The inexpensive sonzera was what brought me here to learn more about PRs amps. They only have like used PRS amps at the local GC and Sam Ash and usually only the 2 channel and only recently the Sonzera (which I bought on the spot cash). She's pretty loud 20 and can compliment my 85 watt 67 twin reverb nicely as my current rig set up Im using...Might try it with my Vibrolux 68. I needed a small amp that could kick so I like them together.
Thats why I joined here initially, to learn about the rest of the amp line up but now I am glad I just joined for other reasons too. So Im really looking forward to playing the Grissom. I actually am not familiar with the guy. I usually steer clear from signature amps just because the way they put it like its geared or tailored for someone else tone but I need to get past that because its gonna play different in my hands. The J-Mod is a turn off but in all honesty its probably a good amp, Im being a jerk because Im not a Mayer fan and he states well its all about getting my sound. I have to get past that in my head. Plus maybe 6k is it worth it against like a Bad Cat at 4k? I dunno. I kinda just don't like the way he promotes it. Like hey you want my sound blah blah blah. Thats silly. The Grissom seems like a nice Vintage type with lots of versatility. I hope I like it. Pretty certain I will.
Yeah thanks for the UAD info. I had no idea. Im gonna dive into that in a few minutes
!!!! And maybe order the Grissom on faith tonight.
Leif Robertson
New Member
Yeah I can tell from the demos what kinda of amp it is. The demos kinda remind me of certain dumble tones actually. Maybe Im wrong I don't have the amp yet but I will definitly be picking your ear once it arrives since you offered! Thanks!!!!!
Definitely not Dumble (I was a Two-Rock player for a number of years, and their amps were more in the Dumble direction); to me, more Tweed than other influences, but I think there’s a lot going on with them that’s cool.
Anyway, feel free to ping me if you’d like some settings.
Tonight I went into the studio with my trusty McCarty Singlecut, and played my HXDA. Then I thought, why not try the guitar with the PRS Supermodels, and also try out a demo of the new UAD Suhr PT-100 model?
So I did. I didn’t go straight into the Apollo; I used my Avalon U5 DI box. Not that it’s better or worse, I just like it.
I tried the Suhr model both as a Unison plugin with the Apollo, and as a Logic plugin. Sounded the same either way. There was a teeny bit less latency with the Suhr in Unison mode.
Obviously, the PRS models can only be used as standard plugins. I played through the V9 PRS model, as it seemed the most direct comparison.
The PRS models felt and sounded more like amps. They also were capable of more nuance; they were more pick-sensitive.
The Suhr model was basically Dirt Off, A Lotta Dirt, and Even More Dirt. There wasn’t much nuance. The model wasn’t very sensitive to pick attack. To me, it sounded less like a real amp.
I should point out that neither model delivered the feel of a tube amp. But the PRS/Waves models came closer to the tone of a tube amp than the Suhr/UA model.
I’m not a fan of modeled amps, but if I had to use one to lay out ideas for a project late at night, so far these Waves/PRS models sound more like amps than most of the other ones I have tried (and I also own a bunch that I don’t use from a variety of vendors).
So I did. I didn’t go straight into the Apollo; I used my Avalon U5 DI box. Not that it’s better or worse, I just like it.
I tried the Suhr model both as a Unison plugin with the Apollo, and as a Logic plugin. Sounded the same either way. There was a teeny bit less latency with the Suhr in Unison mode.
Obviously, the PRS models can only be used as standard plugins. I played through the V9 PRS model, as it seemed the most direct comparison.
The PRS models felt and sounded more like amps. They also were capable of more nuance; they were more pick-sensitive.
The Suhr model was basically Dirt Off, A Lotta Dirt, and Even More Dirt. There wasn’t much nuance. The model wasn’t very sensitive to pick attack. To me, it sounded less like a real amp.
I should point out that neither model delivered the feel of a tube amp. But the PRS/Waves models came closer to the tone of a tube amp than the Suhr/UA model.
I’m not a fan of modeled amps, but if I had to use one to lay out ideas for a project late at night, so far these Waves/PRS models sound more like amps than most of the other ones I have tried (and I also own a bunch that I don’t use from a variety of vendors).
Leif Robertson
New Member
Oh. I thought it sounded like a glassworks but maybe the demo wasn't really good. Thats fine I love tweed and I definitely will. I already have a fuchs dos so its just as well.
How do you like the HXDA model? What does that feel like?...And shame on you for going with a di boxt lol. Just kidding.
Actually the only amp I thought sounded like the amp direct was way back when I started recording I had a carving legacy and that had some kind of really excellent built in cab sim. The second best IMO is the REDox by Hughes and Kettner. Still I don't bother ever Unless Im plugging in the Tubemeister but I never do. Its just a christmas tree sitting on my work station lol. Prefer miced but that sounds a bit like an sm57 IMO. Still I just mic always because every single amp with di other than that carvin and maybe the tubemeister 18 40th anniversary model like if its 3am and like you I want to keep the noise down or don't want the police coming lol.
FYI I love Suhr strats. I stay away from signature models but I do havet the Scott Henderson model. Plays really nice. IMO
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