I think these guitars are KILLER for the money... plus they are a great platform for upgrades ;-)
S2 vs CE
- Thread starter alostpick
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Without reading all the replies I can wager that you have received plenty of spot-on ones.
I'll add that I'd say a fair comparison to the S2 would be an SE.
Many feel that the S2s should have been what the $899 Les Paul Studios are. Made in the USA bling-free workhorses. You know...maybe satin, plain top, dot or moon inlays, no headstock overlay, setneck, maybe even an all-hog standard version, gigbag...like the Les Paul Studios are. They are $799 or $899(?) new at MF in black, wine or brown satin.
The S2s are kind of like what a Les Paul Studio would be if it had Epiphone hardware and electronics and completely different construction, woods, shape, carve, neck carve...than the USA Les Paul Studios.
Fender also offers their "standard" strats and teles for what...$899? Not part Squier or part MIM but Made in USA Strats and Teles. Granted they may be made by Mexicans but they are the real deal USA Strats and Teles. They even have the same shape as a "real" USA Fender.
Hey, I'm not trying to slam the Korean hardware and electronics. I have an SE and LOVE it. I can even say that I love it as much as my core models (including a CE). The SE bridge is (afaict) every bit as good as the USA one and I really like the SE245 pups. The pup sel switch on the Tremonti SE Custom doesn't appreciate being filled with sweat and spit every night but it used to work fine.
Again, I LOVE my SE!
If you are wanting to get into a USA PRS, while that was apparently the raison d'etre of the S2 line (to be able to offer a USA PRS on a budget), well the S2 line is NOT that!
A CE is...but it's a bolt-on. I LOVE my '94 CE24 but it isn't "really" what PRS is all about. To me, it has to be a setneck and should feel and look like GLASS. That's an SE or a core model.
Hey actually, used McCartys are almost as cheap as the CEs. Now THAT'S a PRS. Even better (some would say) with it's thicker body.
If you don't fall in love with it's tone...PICKUP SWAP!! Cheap and something you would probably be doing on an SE or S2 anyway.
Yeah...definitely look at the McCartys!!
Sorry for slamming the S2s. I AM looking forward to trying one and like we all do, I HOPE they are awesome and hugely successful.
IF though, you are looking at them over the SE line BECAUSE the S2s are "American Made PRSs"...you might be let down a little bit after doing some research.
Again, I'm sure the S2s are GREAT guitars. I doubt PRS would make anything BUT.
I'll add that I'd say a fair comparison to the S2 would be an SE.
Many feel that the S2s should have been what the $899 Les Paul Studios are. Made in the USA bling-free workhorses. You know...maybe satin, plain top, dot or moon inlays, no headstock overlay, setneck, maybe even an all-hog standard version, gigbag...like the Les Paul Studios are. They are $799 or $899(?) new at MF in black, wine or brown satin.
The S2s are kind of like what a Les Paul Studio would be if it had Epiphone hardware and electronics and completely different construction, woods, shape, carve, neck carve...than the USA Les Paul Studios.
Fender also offers their "standard" strats and teles for what...$899? Not part Squier or part MIM but Made in USA Strats and Teles. Granted they may be made by Mexicans but they are the real deal USA Strats and Teles. They even have the same shape as a "real" USA Fender.
Hey, I'm not trying to slam the Korean hardware and electronics. I have an SE and LOVE it. I can even say that I love it as much as my core models (including a CE). The SE bridge is (afaict) every bit as good as the USA one and I really like the SE245 pups. The pup sel switch on the Tremonti SE Custom doesn't appreciate being filled with sweat and spit every night but it used to work fine.
Again, I LOVE my SE!
If you are wanting to get into a USA PRS, while that was apparently the raison d'etre of the S2 line (to be able to offer a USA PRS on a budget), well the S2 line is NOT that!
A CE is...but it's a bolt-on. I LOVE my '94 CE24 but it isn't "really" what PRS is all about. To me, it has to be a setneck and should feel and look like GLASS. That's an SE or a core model.
Hey actually, used McCartys are almost as cheap as the CEs. Now THAT'S a PRS. Even better (some would say) with it's thicker body.
If you don't fall in love with it's tone...PICKUP SWAP!! Cheap and something you would probably be doing on an SE or S2 anyway.
Yeah...definitely look at the McCartys!!
Sorry for slamming the S2s. I AM looking forward to trying one and like we all do, I HOPE they are awesome and hugely successful.
IF though, you are looking at them over the SE line BECAUSE the S2s are "American Made PRSs"...you might be let down a little bit after doing some research.
Again, I'm sure the S2s are GREAT guitars. I doubt PRS would make anything BUT.
ah, mr. blaren. so nice to hear from you. I thought maybe you won the lottery and bought a Island somewhere. I thought for sure you would of weighed in on the narrowfields being discontinued! always a pleasure reading your comments.
richardlpalmer
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Interesting topic.
I've never heard from Paul why they eliminated the CE from their lineup. But I've definitely heard a lot of conjecture about it.
For me, it was my favorite PRS until I got a Modern Eagle. I personally like a satin maple neck. The rock maple used in my CE's neck feels and plays perfectly. Combined with the hog/maple body, it's a thing of sonic beauty. I tried over and over to love a Custom but just couldn't abide the mahogany neck (always painted/varnished). I need the feel of wood/satin finish which I get from the CE (and rosewood necked ME).
Maybe it cut across their bottom line but I don't quite see how. They're different animals. Bolt-on/rock maple, versus set/mahogany necks. Other than that the pups & electronics were all identical. My feeling is it's a sad thing they don't offer a CE model. For players that prefer that wood/construction it's a lost market. I'd love to see a CE resurgence with the Pattern neck. I've grown to love that profile, when I didn't think I ever would -- it's my favorite...
But I can see where a company might want to make a branding/image decision like, "We're a set-neck guitar maker" and then stick to it...
EDIT: It's great to see maple being used for the neck of the new Floyd Custom...
I've never heard from Paul why they eliminated the CE from their lineup. But I've definitely heard a lot of conjecture about it.
For me, it was my favorite PRS until I got a Modern Eagle. I personally like a satin maple neck. The rock maple used in my CE's neck feels and plays perfectly. Combined with the hog/maple body, it's a thing of sonic beauty. I tried over and over to love a Custom but just couldn't abide the mahogany neck (always painted/varnished). I need the feel of wood/satin finish which I get from the CE (and rosewood necked ME).
Maybe it cut across their bottom line but I don't quite see how. They're different animals. Bolt-on/rock maple, versus set/mahogany necks. Other than that the pups & electronics were all identical. My feeling is it's a sad thing they don't offer a CE model. For players that prefer that wood/construction it's a lost market. I'd love to see a CE resurgence with the Pattern neck. I've grown to love that profile, when I didn't think I ever would -- it's my favorite...
But I can see where a company might want to make a branding/image decision like, "We're a set-neck guitar maker" and then stick to it...
EDIT: It's great to see maple being used for the neck of the new Floyd Custom...
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They have the Custom 24 Maple from last year's Experience. Also, you can opt for maple necks for Artist Packages. Although they're not bolt-ons, they're the closest you can get to have a CE now... Oh and btw, SE Customs come with maple necks instead of mahogany, not sure why.
micgeo
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I've been following this thread with great interest as I have the same questions as the person that started this thread. There seems to be plenty of support for picking up an older model rather than selecting the new S2. Are there any youtube posts comparing the S2 with older PRS guitars?
I think that every year Paul works very hard to keep improving his great guitars. Is it possible that the S2s are better guitars than some of the older models? Mark Lucas of NStuff has an S2 Mira as one of his guitars and his enjoyment of it comes across in his demo - check out his comments around 9:20 - end and see his genuine appreciation of the guitar "http://youtu.be/W0V6IbtHqG0" . Even CantankerousCarl, whose posts I thoroughly enjoy reading, has an S2 Mira and he posted a wonderful review.
From what I have seen online, even guitars that are 20 years old are still selling for more than the S2s. Is there really that much difference in quality?
I think that every year Paul works very hard to keep improving his great guitars. Is it possible that the S2s are better guitars than some of the older models? Mark Lucas of NStuff has an S2 Mira as one of his guitars and his enjoyment of it comes across in his demo - check out his comments around 9:20 - end and see his genuine appreciation of the guitar "http://youtu.be/W0V6IbtHqG0" . Even CantankerousCarl, whose posts I thoroughly enjoy reading, has an S2 Mira and he posted a wonderful review.
From what I have seen online, even guitars that are 20 years old are still selling for more than the S2s. Is there really that much difference in quality?
I don't think i could've asked for more detailed or helpful posts... I'm still in limbo as i wait another week or two for tax returns. As i mentioned in an earlier post, i have a bit of paranoia when buying used and get OCD trying to find the "one."
I like to keep my options open and have everything on the table from an SE Akesson, to an S2 Singlecut/CU22, CE22, and there's still a chance i pull a gigantic **** it and get a Core CU22 or similar.
I like to keep my options open and have everything on the table from an SE Akesson, to an S2 Singlecut/CU22, CE22, and there's still a chance i pull a gigantic **** it and get a Core CU22 or similar.
CantankerousCarl
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Why thank you mic, thank you very much...
While I do think alot of it comes down to perception, I think there is definitely a monetarily justifiable jump in quality from the SE, to the S2, to the Core line. But whether that translates equally into a sonic jump is much more subjective.
I have gushed over my S2 Mira, as well as my CEs, as noted. I got my S2 Mira new for less than the least amount I have ever paid for a used CE. THATS A DEAL! I think it's a really well built guitar, and it feel great to play, but there is no mistaking it for a Core guitar. That is a difference you can see and feel.
Having owned many SEs in the past, for my ears, you hear the differences, but to a lesser extent than you see and feel them. I haven't heard an SE that sounded bad - all of the ones, from EGs to Santanas to Soapbars had a great core tone. What I think you get as you move up through the S2s and Core models is a greater degree of subtlety, complexity and expressiveness. The better your amp, and the less junk you put between your PRS and your amp, the more of that complexity you will notice.
Then there is the "perceived value" of what we bring to the equation. All PRSes are "real" PRSes, but the Core line is the original, and I think we all have (and continue to) aspire to that...to the high watermark. Does a $400-on-clearance / used SE sound 10x worse than a $4,000 AP model? Doubtful. Is there a tenfold difference in quality? Probably not subjectively OR objectively.
When I bought my S2 Mira, I had been looking for a good $1,000 CE. At the time, there weren't any, and I got a great deal on a new one. So I tried one. No regrets. Now, there are a TON of great used CEs available. Would I make the same decision again? Probably not, based upon the fact that the CEs are a known good commodity to me, hold up extremely well, sound and feel amazing, and will hold a good portion of their value should I decide to get rid of one for any reason. And, when I look to the left, I see that signature on the headstock, and I feel like I did when I had my first one back in '92, with my flannel, and my long hair...
But if I had gotten a CE at that time, I would have missed out on my S2 Mira, which I love, which gets played every single day that I play - and if I only have time to play one that day, she's usually it.
So that took a helluva long time to say pretty much what alot of folks have been saying - either an S2 or CE will be great, and you should get what makes you happy. As I have said before - if you have the means, take advantage of return policies, and try both of them in your home, on your amp, at your rehearsal, at your gig, and keep the one that makes you smile.
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Very different guitars to start with.S2s are setnecks and CEs are bolt-ons or bolt-ins as Ed Roman calls it.S2s to me looks korean PRSs built in USA with Korean parts.CEs had all the same parts as the original customs.Looked the same but with a bolt-on neck.Personally i would love to buy skeletons of both models and put together projectguitars with other pickups etc etc.Im convinced a CE model comeback would be a much better product than the S2 line of guitars.
richardlpalmer
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While I don't disagree, I can see why they won't do that. There'd be little to no cost difference between a CE and CU. I mean, other than one being a set-neck and the other bolt-on, the manufacturing process is identical. No way they'd be able to lower the price like they can on the S2s...
And therein lies the rub. I believe part of the allure to CEs is that they were (and are) core models. They might be discontinued, but there's no denying the body of my CE could be a direct replacement for ANY CU from that era. Of course, I wouldn't trade it for a CU period -- would hate to lose that neck!
CantankerousCarl
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+1, my favorite WT necks in the universe are those on my 90, 91 & 92 CEs - the 91 in particular just "disappears" when played, and the finish feels good as well.
rnodern
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I'll add my 2 cents for what it's worth.
New CE's are still great. But I don't like the new top carve. It's the little things like volume and tone pot crater cut outs. The angle of the carve etc. IMO pre-2010 CE's are where it's at. Earlier the better, actually. I own a 2007 CE22 and a 1989 CE24. I favor the 1989 CE24. It has an alder body and a maple flame top. Crisp sound. versatile. More versatile than my 2003 Custom 24.
I personally don't like the S2's. I am just not a fan of the tops. I don't think the transparent tops look as nice. Tonally, though, they do sound very similar to the core customs. Put it this way, I probably wouldn't be able to hear the difference in a blind test. Personally, i'd probably prefer an SE than an S2. the shallow carves look nicer IMO.
In summary.. Go for for a late 90's or early 2000's CE. Best of all worlds!
Cheers!
New CE's are still great. But I don't like the new top carve. It's the little things like volume and tone pot crater cut outs. The angle of the carve etc. IMO pre-2010 CE's are where it's at. Earlier the better, actually. I own a 2007 CE22 and a 1989 CE24. I favor the 1989 CE24. It has an alder body and a maple flame top. Crisp sound. versatile. More versatile than my 2003 Custom 24.
I personally don't like the S2's. I am just not a fan of the tops. I don't think the transparent tops look as nice. Tonally, though, they do sound very similar to the core customs. Put it this way, I probably wouldn't be able to hear the difference in a blind test. Personally, i'd probably prefer an SE than an S2. the shallow carves look nicer IMO.
In summary.. Go for for a late 90's or early 2000's CE. Best of all worlds!
Cheers!
Geo408
Not a new member.
I have a different view of the S2 models. I have a stock Vela, which is its own animal. It weighs 6 pounds, plays beautiful, sounds fantastic, and its originality is what makes it great. I picked up an S2 custom 24 recently, and I used it at a practice, and it immediately reminded me of an SG. It didn't have the depth of any of my core models, but I felt that it had potential. I had a core bridge in my parts bin, and made a call to John Mann for springs and screws. I installed the bridge, and changed the volume pot to a core model, and there was an immediate improvement. More depth, and upper mid sparkle.
After the holidays, I'm going to install an old set of hfs/vintage bass pickups from my parts bin. ( I'll post before and after pics ) I think that will improve it immensely. My comparison of the S2 to an SG, is like comparing an SG to an LP, if you get my meaning. The s2's will never have the power, girth or tone of a core model, but I think they're comparable to an SG. I picked up this s2, because it was unplayed, and really cheap, so it's worth my time to experiment on. I have a parts bin that spans 45 years, so it's a fun process, and I don't have to spend a lot to satisfy my curiosity! I think the s2 is its own thing, and I think the new ce's are vastly different from the old ce's. I haven't played a new ce that I like yet. The pickups sound good, but the rest of it is a bit underwhelming, imho. I have a '97 ce24, with a set of Florence voodoo's in it that sounds awe inspiring. It always comes down to what works for you. I'm going to keep looking for a new ce, because it took me almost a year to find a Vela that was "right", and about the same amount of time to find an s2 custom 24 that felt "right". I'm very fussy..lol! Anyway, the quest continues! Merry Christmas to all my fellow "crack wood" addicts!
After the holidays, I'm going to install an old set of hfs/vintage bass pickups from my parts bin. ( I'll post before and after pics ) I think that will improve it immensely. My comparison of the S2 to an SG, is like comparing an SG to an LP, if you get my meaning. The s2's will never have the power, girth or tone of a core model, but I think they're comparable to an SG. I picked up this s2, because it was unplayed, and really cheap, so it's worth my time to experiment on. I have a parts bin that spans 45 years, so it's a fun process, and I don't have to spend a lot to satisfy my curiosity! I think the s2 is its own thing, and I think the new ce's are vastly different from the old ce's. I haven't played a new ce that I like yet. The pickups sound good, but the rest of it is a bit underwhelming, imho. I have a '97 ce24, with a set of Florence voodoo's in it that sounds awe inspiring. It always comes down to what works for you. I'm going to keep looking for a new ce, because it took me almost a year to find a Vela that was "right", and about the same amount of time to find an s2 custom 24 that felt "right". I'm very fussy..lol! Anyway, the quest continues! Merry Christmas to all my fellow "crack wood" addicts!
gush
Where is that speedo pic
I have three 1997 CEs and I love them. I love the maple necks too. CE22 dragon 1s, CE24 5708s, all mahogany CE22 5310s. They all do different things but are all equally AWESOME.
When looking at used, ask if it stays in tune with trem use and ask for closeup pics of trem and scews and frets. New fulcrum screws are cheap and a NOS one piece trem from John Mann is very reasonable.
DON'T be afraid of used just be as smart as you can when buying.
The hog CE I bought had some minor fretboard damage during a refret and that wasn't disclosed to me. It is visible on 3 upper frets but doesn't effect the guitar too much. Still sucks. I didn't pay very much for itso iI'm not too upset. I put the rotary switch back on it and dropped the 5310s in it and it sounds good!!!! It's still got those dam winged tuners though.
When looking at used, ask if it stays in tune with trem use and ask for closeup pics of trem and scews and frets. New fulcrum screws are cheap and a NOS one piece trem from John Mann is very reasonable.
DON'T be afraid of used just be as smart as you can when buying.
The hog CE I bought had some minor fretboard damage during a refret and that wasn't disclosed to me. It is visible on 3 upper frets but doesn't effect the guitar too much. Still sucks. I didn't pay very much for itso iI'm not too upset. I put the rotary switch back on it and dropped the 5310s in it and it sounds good!!!! It's still got those dam winged tuners though.
Rider1260
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IMHO CEs are a great guitar and S2s are really nice some like the Vela and Starla are something not available in the core line.
Get the best guitar you can new or used.
Don't be afraid of used Core PRSi all the preloved PRS I have have been excellent and most PRS players take really good care of there stuff.
Happy Hunting
Get the best guitar you can new or used.
Don't be afraid of used Core PRSi all the preloved PRS I have have been excellent and most PRS players take really good care of there stuff.
Happy Hunting
gush
Where is that speedo pic
Yes, most people do take care of their PRS guitars..........however, two of my CEs have screw holes from midi pickups. Who does that to a PRS?????
bodia
Authorities said.....best leave it.....unsolved
I can think of someone. He, The Hater of Blue Guitars, has done so!
Bob Turner
New Member
I will say this. I recently purchased a S2 Singlecut in Elephant Grey, after a McCarty 594 which I dearly love. I am still sadly disappointed in the S2. At this point I would almost trade it for a SE model. I should not have to upgrade a new guitar that needed a set up to begin with. In defense it was a used guitar, but it was immaculate and in mint condition.
