PRS split tones

[boardn10]

Hey guys! Love PRS, but I haven't been able to make use of split tones live. I do have an older CE22 from 1994 with the 5 way rotary. That guitar is great that I can do humbucker and all the other split or phase/out of phase tones at the same volume.
With my 2005 McCarty (mahogany), the split tones are nice but too quiet to use live. I also installed split pots on my SC250, and that was also too much a drop in volume. I think there is something you can do with caps to make it louder?
For now, I just use humbuckers but it's nice when I use my CE22 for some of our cover songs by The Police, and other bands that used single coil guitars...and even covering some acoustic like stuff. Wishing I had kept the Piezo system in my CE22.
Anyway, would be cool to cover more single coil tones live but I have only been able to do it with my CE22 thus far. That old 5-way rotary is great for that. I know many people would convert the 5-way to a McCarty style push/pull but I assume that results in the same volume drops.

Oddly, my guitar tech gigs with Strats and he has no volume drops at all. True single coils too.

I prefer humbuckers so I stick to what I know, but would be cool to have options.

 

[dogrocketp]

Keep the 5 way, they’re grossly misunderstood. I use the volume drop to my advantage when it’s on the gigging guitar. Set your volume with the single coil sound, then just hit the humbucker at solo time. If I want to use the humbuckers for rhythm, a little tweak of the volume knob gets me there. Remember there’s no loss of treble when you turn the volume down, unlike most other guitars.

 

[boardn10]

I love the 5 way.
It gives me such great tones that are as good as strats I've owned. Those Dragons work so well in that CE22.

I can't so that with volume because I use humbuckers all the time but it wanted the single coil tones for one or two songs.

What do you mean there is no loss of treble? I removed the treble bleed on my CE. I like it better this way.
In my McCarty, I just replace the bridge pickup but kept the pots.

I know the newer models with split tones work better. No volume drops.

I could have my tech rewire them like the new PRS guitars.

 

[boardn10]

In the end, maybe I'll just bring my CE22 to gigs as my single coil tone guitar.

Otherwise, I'd love to wire up my SC250 for split tones like the new PRS models. My buddy has a 2015 Custom 24 and the split tones are great. No volume drops at all.

On the volumes roll off and treble drop, I removed the treble bleed caps but I could always add back. I actually like my rolled back tones to be a little warmer wo I don't mind the treble loss. I find as you roll off, the tone gets a bit thinner, so the treble roll off flattens it up a bit.

Even though I don't notice a big treble loss with volume roll off, regardless.
I installed a new PRS treble bleed pot into my SC250 but I removed the treble cap.
I coild always add back. I think it's just one cap.

If I could find a diagram for the newer Custom 24 models and models that have the splitting with no volume drop, that would be great.

 

[andy474x]

Most current PRS use resistors on the push/pull to keep some of the second coil of the pickup in the signal and avoid such a pronounced volume drop. Not sure what’s on your McCarty And SC250.

Also, you could use a pedal to boost yourself back up when using the splits.

 

[jak3af3r]

I was never completely thrilled with the stock McCarty splits on mine either, especially live.

I ended up doing the resistor split to match the DGT values on the neck.

On the bridge, I did a bunch of research on Tele pickups and their resonant frequencies and tried to build an LCR circuit to activate with the push pull that approximates those values.

I got close-ish.

Maybe when I get some more free-time, I'll do a shootout between a tele and the McCarty in a mix for reference.

 

[garrett]

Yep, move to the current McCarty wiring scheme with the resistors and I think you'll be pleased.

https://d159anurvk4929.cloudfront.net/documents/mccarty_2017.pdf

I've gigged my 594 and a CU22 with the tap resistors and they perform great in a live mix. I was able to happily solo on country-ish things with the split bridge pickup.

Another trick is to add an EQ pedal to your board to bring your single coil tones back up in the mix. A compressor helps as well to limit the peaks of the humbuckers and to limit the drop in the singles. If you like to play with gain, running an overdrive or distortion pedal also adds compression. And of course you can always use a boost pedal.

 

[boardn10]

Most current PRS use resistors on the push/pull to keep some of the second coil of the pickup in the signal and avoid such a pronounced volume drop. Not sure what’s on your McCarty And SC250.

Also, you could use a pedal to boost yourself back up when using the splits.

Oh, good point on the pedal. I could grab a mini clean boost pedal.
Otherwise I would just skip the split tones.

 

[boardn10]

I was never completely thrilled with the stock McCarty splits on mine either, especially live.

I ended up doing the resistor split to match the DGT values on the neck.

On the bridge, I did a bunch of research on Tele pickups and their resonant frequencies and tried to build an LCR circuit to activate with the push pull that approximates those values.

I got close-ish.

Maybe when I get some more free-time, I'll do a shootout between a tele and the McCarty in a mix for reference.

I just have little desire to rip the guts apart trying to get it right.
I'm very happy with the tones on my CE22. Maybe I just bring that to gigs and make it my guitar for those tones.
The split tones with my SC250 are fine if I use a boost to raise volume.

 

[boardn10]

Yep, move to the current McCarty wiring scheme with the resistors and I think you'll be pleased.

https://d159anurvk4929.cloudfront.net/documents/mccarty_2017.pdf

I've gigged my 594 and a CU22 with the tap resistors and they perform great in a live mix. I was able to happily solo on country-ish things with the split bridge pickup.

Another trick is to add an EQ pedal to your board to bring your single coil tones back up in the mix. A compressor helps as well to limit the peaks of the humbuckers and to limit the drop in the singles. If you like to play with gain, running an overdrive or distortion pedal also adds compression. And of course you can always use a boost pedal.

Thanks, that is good to know.
I haven't decided yet if I am keeping my McCarty. I play my SC250 more.
I'd like to install split pots into my SC250 and do the same.
Do you know of a similar schematic for my SC250? I know the new Custom 24 models hav split tones that don't drop in volume. I just need a schematic for a 4 pot PRS.

Otherwise I could just us a boost or just use my CE_22 as my strat-ish guitar.

My favorite guitar is my SC250 but it is all humbucker. I'd have to install the split pots and resistors. Or drop in the pots and use a boost. My board is jam packed as it is though.

 

[jak3af3r]

I just have little desire to rip the guts apart trying to get it right.
I'm very happy with the tones on my CE22. Maybe I just bring that to gigs and make it my guitar for those tones.
The split tones with my SC250 are fine if I use a boost to raise volume.

I understand that. I was hesitant as well but in reality it involved adding one resistor for the neck pickup and a resistor and capacitor for the bridge pickup.

Even then, it still doesn't quite compare to a custom 24 I have. It's good, just not the same.

 

[boardn10]

I understand that. I was hesitant as well but in reality it involved adding one resistor for the neck pickup and a resistor and capacitor for the bridge pickup.

Even then, it still doesn't quite compare to a custom 24 I have. It's good, just not the same.

Thanks...
Why doesn't it compare to the Custom 24?
I could just stick to using my 1994 CE22 which has the 5-way rotary. Love those tones as much as some strats I've had.

 

[jak3af3r]

Thanks...
Why doesn't it compare to the Custom 24?
I could just stick to using my 1994 CE22 which has the 5-way rotary. Love those tones as much as some strats I've had.

The McCarty just won't get close to strat territory. Some of it is the pickups. Most of it, in my case, I attribute to construction.

My custom has a rosewood neck which scoops out some of the mids, tightens up the low end, and makes the highs very very clear.

 

[boardn10]

The McCarty just won't get close to strat territory. Some of it is the pickups. Most of it, in my case, I attribute to construction.

My custom has a rosewood neck which scoops out some of the mids, tightens up the low end, and makes the highs very very clear.

Your other PRS models don't have a rosewood fretboard? Or are you saying rhe actual neck is rosewood?

My McCarty has hot Wolftone pickups. Bridge is a 15k Timbrewolf and splits well.

That said, mt CE22 is better for those tones, and I don't they are even split. They are sort of a phase/out of phase setup. I forget but the Dragons are hot and split well. Maybe that is my go to PRS for single coil like tones.
My CE22 has an Alder body, even though almost sounds like mahogany to me. I believe ebony fretboard and maple bolt neck and trem.

That said my SC250 pickups split well.

Interesting my tech plays a strat with true single coil pickups but to me they sound like humbuckers when distorted. Odd.

 

[garrett]

Thanks, that is good to know.
I haven't decided yet if I am keeping my McCarty. I play my SC250 more.
I'd like to install split pots into my SC250 and do the same.
Do you know of a similar schematic for my SC250? I know the new Custom 24 models hav split tones that don't drop in volume. I just need a schematic for a 4 pot PRS.

Otherwise I could just us a boost or just use my CE_22 as my strat-ish guitar.

My favorite guitar is my SC250 but it is all humbucker. I'd have to install the split pots and resistors. Or drop in the pots and use a boost. My board is jam packed as it is though.

You can borrow from the S2 Singlecut diagram, which reminds me I had an S2 Singlecut Standard that I also happily gigged with the resistors on the push/pulls (with Suhr Thornbuckers).

https://d159anurvk4929.cloudfront.net/documents/prs_s2_singlecuts_wiring_schematics.pdf

 

[ViperDoc]

All you need is a switched resistor to ground on your middle pickup lead. That will be raise the overall resistance by the value of the resistor, but use half your pickup winding and poles. Sounds great.

 

[jak3af3r]

Your other PRS models don't have a rosewood fretboard? Or are you saying rhe actual neck is rosewood?

My McCarty has hot Wolftone pickups. Bridge is a 15k Timbrewolf and splits well.

That said, mt CE22 is better for those tones, and I don't they are even split. They are sort of a phase/out of phase setup. I forget but the Dragons are hot and split well. Maybe that is my go to PRS for single coil like tones.
My CE22 has an Alder body, even though almost sounds like mahogany to me. I believe ebony fretboard and maple bolt neck and trem.

That said my SC250 pickups split well.

Interesting my tech plays a strat with true single coil pickups but to me they sound like humbuckers when distorted. Odd.

The whole neck is rosewood on the custom as it was an option at the time it was built. I only have one PRS without any rosewood, the 25th SAS.

Back when I was out on the road most every weekend, I gigged Teles or strats. Making them sound like a HB when distorted is pretty easy with a mid-foward amp or some pedals that you can EQ to push the mids.

 

[boardn10]

The whole neck is rosewood on the custom as it was an option at the time it was built. I only have one PRS without any rosewood, the 25th SAS.

Back when I was out on the road most every weekend, I gigged Teles or strats. Making them sound like a HB when distorted is pretty easy with a mid-foward amp or some pedals that you can EQ to push the mids.

I totally hear what you say about using an EQ or mid forward amp to get your single coils to sound like humbucker. I've done that.
I am referring more to how his strats sound like humbucker to me out of the gate. Take the exact same amp and pedals settings he uses for his LPs and Suhr humbucker guitars and then plugging in his strat and it's like nothing has changed.
It's crazy. I know him well and he does t change anything for his strats, just plugs in. He claims the really hot single coils remind him of humbucker Nad now he said he finally understands why lots of guys love single coils. Says you just have to get the right guitar, pickups. Blows me away every time I hear them. Makes no sense how they as huge as his humbucker guitars.
No volume drop or anything. Singles have never worked for me.
I used to gig an LP, PRS and strat and people would say my volume dropped with the strat.

For my SC and Singlecut, I'll have to see if I can either incorporate some of what you guys suggest or just use a clean post to being up the volume.
I do a similar thing when rolling my volume back to get crunch tones and then my clean suffers as the volume drops. Good ole clean boost.

 

[boardn10]

Thanks guys..
I may take my McCarty with split tones and have my tech do the cap and resistor mod to fix the volume. I'll have him install split pots into my SC and do the same.
Otherwise, I could use a clean boost since I may always use that for when I roll back my guitar volume when playing my PRS Archon 100.
When I roll down for crunch tones, I need the clean boost pedal to add some saturation to the crunch and also bring the clean tone volume up. Or just use it on clean and have it we that I can kick it on for solos with the gain. Hmmm, could be fun.
My McCarty sounds fatter split than a stock model due to thr hotter bridge pickup.
Do you guys recommend where to buy the pots, caps, resistors, etc? Are there ParS kits for this? I know they sell PRS pots. I have one in my SC with thetreble bleed removed.

 

[jak3af3r]

https://www.mouser.com/