PRS SE Models - Do They Have the Same “Essence” As Core Models?

[Toolmaster Of Brainerd]

Lol - I actually just did change the title, as well as modified a sentence in the first post that I thought was causing the most issue. I still stand by my opinions though.

I re-read your original post and I think it's more reasonable now.

Yes, there's definitely something special you get with a core that you don't get with an SE. That last 20% is important to me too, which is why I own a core.

No, I don't think SEs would be meaningfully closer if prs started a factory in China. Well, they could, but the price would go way up. Attention to little details takes time, which means it costs money. The SE line is the best Paul can make at that price.

Cores made in China would cost less than cores made in USA, of course. That's kind of close to what the S2 line is. They're notably more expensive than the SE line because they take more time and money to make than an SE.

 

[Faded]

Are BAD amps really poorly built? I've never owned one and I haven't seen much chatter on tgp trashing on them.

It depends on the brand and model they are building.

Some of the Tone King amps have shipped with fatal known issues.

Morgan Amps built by BAD are poorly built with cheap component selection.

Some of the lower end Friedmans are poorly designed and constructed as well.

 

[Greywolf]

When all is said and done , If a guitar makes you happy who cares what name is on it ?

 

[Jim Elston]

Fascinating question. I can only answer from personal experience, I have owned a couple of extremely high end guitars, one I just couldn't bond with, and nor could the guy I sold it to, and the other I sold without regret. May last purchase was a 2012 SE Santana with spalted maple top, I know that it is a veneer, but that does not bother me, I bonded with it immediately, I used it last night at a gig, and it is my absolute 'go to' guitar. I do not feel the need to change anything, although I did put some locking machine heads on it. I am not a Santana fan, I don't do any Santana covers, I don't want to sound like Santana (No offense) I don't care where this was made or what it says on the headstock, it suits me, I love its sound, weight, looks and playability, it just is 'right' for me. I will undoubtedly try a core Santana at some point, but for me, right now I love the feel of that SE in my hand. My expectations of owning a custom shop guitar were not met, it was not 'special', I think that Leo Fender once said something along the lines of "anyone, anywhere in the world can operate a CNC machine" Just my thoughts.

 

[( . )( . )]

I am reading through this and you are talking about, in the current market anyway, rare pricing on used PRS Core guitars. When I started buying all my Core guitars, I worked with my friend who managed GC. We'd go through GC Used, I'd find a guitar I liked, he get it shipped over. If it was in the system 90 days or more he'd knock 10% off. Since he knew I was a habitual buyer, and a cash customer, if I wasn't happy with the condition of the guitar vs. what was listed, he'd knock a percentage off for every "injury".

I paid $1299 for a 10-top DC245.
I paid $1499 for an SC245 57/08 Limited in mint condition.
I paid $1850 for a DGT in a one-off color with an Artist package - Quilted maple top and Brazilian RW.
I paid $1350 each for two different Paul's Guitars with Tremolos.
I paid $1499 for an MC58 with an Artist grade top.
I paid $850 for two different CE22s.
I paid $1000 for a different CE22.
I paid $1700 for a P22 trem with a 10 top.
I paid $1300 for an SC250 with an Artist package.
I paid $1000 for a CU22 trem with a 10 top.
I paid $1100 for a CU22 trem with a 10 top.

Why am I sharing this? It was in a past time. These used prices are uncommon, rare, or impossible with the current market. Why would somebody choose to buy an SE over a used Core?

SImple. EVERYTHING is over-priced in today's economy. Even SE's are more expensive. Many people are financing purchases. It's hard to finance a killer deal on Craigslist. Reverb? Ebay? One can try Affirm or Paypal 4-Pay, but it may not work out for them. Most banks won't finance a used guitar purchase, so new is the only option.

Another reason? Some people don't really care. They think anything over a certain price point is stupid. Personally, I just bought a $139 guitar on Amazon. Why? My wife liked the way it looked. After spending three hours with the neck doing a mild fret job and refinishing it to have a gunstock oil and wax finish, it slays. I LOVE playing it....

I spent more money on a single PRS pickup to do this WHOLE guitar. Economics, man.

However, the "mojo" - in my experienced opinion - is close enough with the Cor-Tek SEs to make me a convert. During the World Music-era I tried SEs but HATED them. Now with the Cor-Tek guitars I have a comfortable carve - the Core carve looks AWESOME, but using the guitar on stage was only a little bit more comfy than playing a Tele. Personally, I like the bevel on the S2 line BEST for playing live.

At the end of the day, guitars - brand, price-range, model, ALL of it - are a personal choice. You choose to purchase one way. Cool. Others, myself included now, buy SEs and are quite happy. They play great and sound awesome. I do SERIOUSLY modify mine, but I really don't have to if I am honest with myself. Three of my SEs are modded to ALL Core components, whereas my HB II Piezo is still stock - despite already having EVERYTHING to soup it up to Core specs. It sounds great as is.

I tried to let this thread die because I was asked to do so in a snarky and unpleasant way. Also, I feel that I’ve been mocked by several people here because my options differ from theirs. I’ve done my best to be non-confrontational nor rude, but I understood from the beginning that my opinions were likely to upset some people.

But since I keep getting very good responses, I can’t help but respond.

First off, the prices that you got those guitars for were great…and basically in the same respective ballpark of what I got mine for.

I think that you can still find them for these prices, as I acquired all of mine between 2015-2020, but I am aware that the COVID bubble has adjusted things a lot. In my case, I was just very diligent with Craigslist, and I moved quickly when I spotted something that seemed like a great deal.

I also own very inexpensive (maybe not quite $139 inexpensive), guitars that I love. I’m in the somewhat rare camp (I think) that I love almost all guitars, regardless of price, shape, style, etc…provided that they do “something” that I like.

In the case of PRS Core models, I’ve just found them to be so exceptionally good across a small sample size that I’ve owned, that I do believe that there is something special going on with them.

I never hated a World Music SE like you’re saying…in fact, the examples that I’ve owned have been great…but they never felt like a more budget friendly version of the same family, genus, species, etc. (whatever - I think you get what I’m saying) as the Core models. If I’ve learned anything from this thread, it’s that I need to try the new SEs, rather than base my opinions solely on the older models…and I need to give S2s more of a chance as well - I just really didn’t like them the one time I had a chance to play a few together.

 

[DreamTheaterRules]

I tried to let this thread die because I was asked to do so…as well as mocked by some people.

I think when “newer” people come in a little too hot, it’s too easy to think “troll” and react accordingly. I may have been guilty of thinking that at first. We all know they aren’t “the same as” and we all get the concept of diminishing returns. I know one far more esteemed member here than I, who does not feel that PRS SE are “real PRS guitars.” I respect his opinion completely. But I differ in how I view the various product lines from one “company” which is why I used my friend who has money and has a Vette, and monster Chevy truck, and has one of those little Sparks that he drives to work since it’s over 30 miles each way.

I’ve NEVER played an SE that was a nice as my cores. I can always feel it immediately. However, one person pointed out when I mentioned an immediate ability to recognize the neck feel that they don’t roll the edges the same on the SE’s and I could just be immediately feeling that. I’ve never put that theory to the test, but it would be easy to take an SE you loved and have it done.

That said, I still haven’t found THE SE that I fell in love with. I’ve come close a couple times with older ones, back when they were CHEAP (like half what they are now). There are several newer models (SE Santana and Pauls, Bernie, and maybe some other single cut models ) that I’d love to try but haven’t, and now this new Swamp Ash Special looks REALLY good so that one I’ll make an effort to get one in hand as soon as possible. But, I don’t expect it to be as silky smooth perfection as my Custom 24 or Custom 22 or NF3. Diminishing returns, yes, but I DO expect my cores to be better than an SE,

 

[( . )( . )]

I think when “newer” people come in a little too hot, it’s too easy to think “troll” and react accordingly. I may have been guilty of thinking that at first. We all know they aren’t “the same as” and we all get the concept of diminishing returns. I know one far more esteemed member here than I, who does not feel that PRS SE are “real PRS guitars.” I respect his opinion completely. But I differ in how I view the various product lines from one “company” which is why I used my friend who has money and has a Vette, and monster Chevy truck, and has one of those little Sparks that he drives to work since it’s over 30 miles each way.

I’ve NEVER played an SE that was a nice as my cores. I can always feel it immediately. However, one person pointed out when I mentioned an immediate ability to recognize the neck feel that they don’t roll the edges the same on the SE’s and I could just be immediately feeling that. I’ve never put that theory to the test, but it would be easy to take an SE you loved and have it done.

That said, I still haven’t found THE SE that I fell in love with. I’ve come close a couple times with older ones, back when they were CHEAP (like half what they are now). There are several newer models (SE Santana and Pauls, Bernie, and maybe some other single cut models ) that I’d love to try but haven’t, and now this new Swamp Ash Special looks REALLY good so that one I’ll make an effort to get one in hand as soon as possible. But, I don’t expect it to be as silky smooth perfection as my Custom 24 or Custom 22 or NF3. Diminishing returns, yes, but I DO expect my cores to be better than an SE,

I completely understand that when someone new comes into a conversation with opinions that aren’t what the majority believes, that that person should be ready to face the repercussions.

For the most part, everyone has been fine here, and I have absolutely no problem with anyone disagreeing with me. I welcome open discussion and debate, and I’m happy to change my opinion on something if convinced. But I don’t think it’s appropriate to call someone names or belittle them because they disagree. A few people have done that here, and I understand why…but it makes things uncomfortable all around IMO.

Enough of that though…

Yeah, the attention to detail on the necks between the Cores and SEs is very obvious. I’m sure if someone took the time to dress a fretboard and roll the neck in an SE like a Core,
It would make a significant difference.

Again, I need to get my hands on some of the new SEs before I continue to compare or judge them. My guess is that I’ll find them to be better than the older examples.

But I still want to try to figure out what’s going on with these Core models that makes them have this exceptionally special “thing” that so many of them seem to have.

 

[DreamTheaterRules]

Enough of that though…

No, it’s not. Calling names and belittling is not acceptable here… until you’ve been around long enough to be one of the guys, and then it’s all fair game.


But until then, it’s not cool. Again, I’m guessing some comments were made in response to a perceived troll. Now that you’ve discussed it enough to prove that was not your intent, I’m sure there are responses that need to be amended. I better go check mine now….

 

[DreamTheaterRules]

I better go check mine now….

Yeah, I'm safe. I didn't even post until Page 9 and didn't insult anyone or call anyone names. And yes, I'm aware that the fact that I had to check does indicate at least a remote possibility of those infractions.

 

[aknow11]

Got my 1st Core in '97, a McCarty, my 1st $2k guitar. Since, I've had about 15 Cores, 3 SE's, and 1 Baritone. The best has been a '97 HB II.....My 1st SE was a HBII piezo, which I think is fantastic. I've never felt playing an SE was any compromise. Growing up with Gibson, the most challenging thing about PRS was accepting the sounds of the different pickups. The one I regret selling was a '96 SAS in Whale Blue. So I just ordered an SE SAS in blue. Even got a discount thanks to TGP. Once I got my 1st PRS, I was in a completely different world. I think Paul is an inspiration to businessmen everywhere!

 

[Rod/]

Okay - I get it now. It seems like this paragraph from my initial post is the issue:

“But…(and this is where I’m likely to upset people), they’re not actually PRS guitars. They are made by Cor-Tek in Korea, Indonesia, or China, then shipped to the PRS plant for final inspection and setup.”

I believe that there is a bit of misunderstanding here. I wasn’t attempting to belittle SE guitars…I went on to say that Gibson (as an example) makes a very clear distinction between Gibson and Epiphone. PRS used to do the same by making sure the instruments showed distinct differences on the headstocks, but they’ve chosen to blend the two variants more in recent years.

I mean, isn’t it a fact, rather than an opinion that Cor-Tek makes these guitars? It’s not a “bad” thing, but it’s surely a different company. I don’t know why it upsets people to acknowledge this distinction, except for confirmation bias.

Again, I will not say anything negative about SEs, as I don’t feel there is anything negative to say about them. I just have yet to play one that does that “thing” like some of the Core examples that I’ve played and owned do.

I really feel like a broken record here…

Yes Cor-Tek builds PRS but did you know that they have their own facility in the factory that that is exclusive to building PRS SE’s? That’s all they build in that facility with all the same craftspeople…It’s very much like having a PRS factory in Indonesia…..
Very different than World Music in S. Korea that’s building Schecters and Reverends and some off brand on the same assembly line.

 

[Veetwin]

And yet when they do blindfold tests they struggle to tell them apart.

 

[Rod/]

I re-read your original post and I think it's more reasonable now.

Yes, there's definitely something special you get with a core that you don't get with an SE. That last 20% is important to me too, which is why I own a core.

No, I don't think SEs would be meaningfully closer if prs started a factory in China. Well, they could, but the price would go way up. Attention to little details takes time, which means it costs money. The SE line is the best Paul can make at that price.

Cores made in China would cost less than cores made in USA, of course. That's kind of close to what the S2 line is. They're notably more expensive than the SE line because they take more time and money to make than an SE.

PRS is also using much finer woods on all their US guitars than the woods that are used in the SE line with their 3 piece bodies with veneer laminated flame maple tops , 3 piece scarfed necks and the species of mahogany used on their bodies and necks…
It’s all about the wood……

 

[tdroid]

Got my 1st Core in '97, a McCarty, my 1st $2k guitar. Since, I've had about 15 Cores, 3 SE's, and 1 Baritone. The best has been a '97 HB II.....My 1st SE was a HBII piezo, which I think is fantastic. I've never felt playing an SE was any compromise. Growing up with Gibson, the most challenging thing about PRS was accepting the sounds of the different pickups. The one I regret selling was a '96 SAS in Whale Blue. So I just ordered an SE SAS in blue. Even got a discount thanks to TGP. Once I got my 1st PRS, I was in a completely different world. I think Paul is an inspiration to businessmen everywhere!

Yes, but is there an argument that a MIM Fender is not a real Fender? Do people claim that an Epiphone Les Paul is not a real Les Paul? The instruments may not be the same level of craftsmanship as their more expensive counterparts, but they are still official PRS instruments and official PRS models. George Lucas may not have had anything to do with The Force Awakens, but it's still part of the Star Wars Universe...

 

[dogrocketp]

Small tidbit from my luthier buddy about MIM/US F guitars. It seems that pollution laws in California were changed at some point, so that Fender had to change their paint formulas. The solution? Make the components in California, and then ship them to Mexico and paint and assemble them there. The end result being that frequently, they are basically the same. I don’t know if and when this changed, but there you have the similarities. Can anyone corroborate this?
Next tidbit. I have a Korean made roasted maple neck SE custom 24 with locking tuners and 24/08 wiring Installed by my luthier. This guitar has “it”, and is the first guitar I reach for when it’s above 90 degrees, or below 64 degrees. The neck has never needed adjustment. I also have a couple other SE guitars that I consider magic, but not quite as magic as my triple soapy, custom 22 stoptail, or S2 custom 24. The magic can be there at any price level, it’s just harder for me to find on lower priced guitars.

 

[Black Dog]

 

[madmarcus1960]

I love SE's as mod-bods. I also own 2 S2 Custom 22's, one solid, the other a hollow body.

My SE's collection is as follows:
Mid Gen Santana
Singlecut Soapbar
Singlecut HB
Zach Meyers
Custom 22 hollow body
245

All were purchase used at a great price. All have electronics (pots, Pickups) and tuner(Hipshot lockers) upgrades. Mostly Fralin, Lollar, or BKP pickups.

 

[RickP]

 

[Draconomics]

Whud I miss....let's have a peek...*looks at thread history*...

. goddam.

Nobody better every give me **** when I rant about Star Trek from now on.

I'll settle this simply with a math demonstration: Is an SE as good as a core out of the box? Nope. Can you get it there? Yup. It'll take time and money, and and we can quantify the value using the famous formula:

Tπ/mi= P(f) , where T is time, π is pie...like actual pie, m is money, i is the root of -1, which multiplied by m means money is imaginary, P is problem, f is for **** because, every problem has one.

Now we can see the amount of P is proportional to T over m, thus a larger problem requires more T and m. Pie is a constant. Just remember, if m=0, you will obliterate the universe.

 

[RickP]

Whud I miss....let's have a peek...*looks at thread history*...

. goddam.

Nobody better every give me **** when I rant about Star Trek from now on.

I'll settle this simply with a math demonstration: Is an SE as good as a core out of the box? Nope. Can you get it there? Yup. It'll take time and money, and and we can quantify the value using the famous formula:

Tπ/mi= P(f) , where T is time, π is pie...like actual pie, m is money, i is the root of -1, which multiplied by m means money is imaginary, P is problem, f is for **** because, every problem has one.

Now we can see the amount of P is proportional to T over m, thus a larger problem requires more T and m. Pie is a constant. Just remember, if m=0, you will obliterate the universe.

T & A solves anything. Musician mathematics 101…


Tone and articulation, ya slobs.