It it possible for a tuning issue to be "unfixable"?

[mranonymous]

Hello:

I purchased a 2017 PRS Custom 24 (brand new, old stock) about 6 months ago. When I got it, I had tuning issues right away, but I figured that a pro setup would take care of things.

I found a HIGHLY reputable luthier in my area and took it to him. When I got it back, the tuning issues were definitely not as bad, but still existed enough to bug me a lot.

After playing the guitar for another few weeks, the tuning issues were back and maybe worse than ever.

The G B and high E strings are the main culprits here. I can't even play one solo before at least one (or sometimes multiple) of these strings goes either mildly or considerably out of tune.

I was thinking it may be my playing style, but I also own a Music Man Majesty that pretty much never goes out of tune, playing the same exact solos.

I also used to own a 2011 PRS (best guitar I ever owned) that NEVER, and I mean never went out of tune, so it's definitely not a PRS thing (as you all know) as their reputation in this area is maybe the best.

Anyway, here are some things I can tell you:

- The luthier got the bridge seated correctly (not tilting to either side)
- The strings were stretched many times
- The issue has existed with both brand new strings and strings that were worn in
- The saddles are even (not tilting)
- The High E is the worst of the problematic strings

I am wondering - is it possible that a guitar's tuning issue can just be either unfixable, or something inherently wrong with the body/neck?

Does anyone have any other ideas as to how I can get this fixed? I spent a lot of money on this guitar and feel like I would be in love with it if not for this issue.

Thanks!

 

[RickP]

Provided it is strung correctly and there is no slippage at the tuner, the most likely culprit is the string binding at the nut. I use a product called “Big Bends Nut Sauce” whenever I run into that (mostly on new guitars). You can also just remove the string and rub some pencil lead into to slot to see if that breaks the friction problem.

Best guess without guitar-in-hand.

 

[Aahzz]

Provided it is strung correctly and there is no slippage at the tuner, the most likely culprit is the string binding at the nut. I use a product called “Big Bends Nut Sauce” whenever I run into that (mostly on new guitars). You can also just remove the string and rub some pencil lead into to slot to see if that breaks the friction problem.

Best guess without guitar-in-hand.

Yep - the one thing I didn't see in the initial post was a nut replacement/nut filing. Sounds like string binding to me from the info at hand.

 

[mranonymous]

Provided it is strung correctly and there is no slippage at the tuner, the most likely culprit is the string binding at the nut. I use a product called “Big Bends Nut Sauce” whenever I run into that (mostly on new guitars). You can also just remove the string and rub some pencil lead into to slot to see if that breaks the friction problem.

Best guess without guitar-in-hand.

Apologies, I forgot to mention that I do have some of that which I applied to the nut (and also a bit to where the strings touch the bridge/saddle area) when I did my own string change

The one thing I have not done is have the nut widened/filed. Do you know if PRS sometimes require this?

 

[goat-n-gitter]

it's possible the knife edges of the tremolo were damaged during its' long stay at the music store (if it was out on display). That could cause serious tuning issues.

 

[mranonymous]

Yep - the one thing I didn't see in the initial post was a nut replacement/nut filing. Sounds like string binding to me from the info at hand.

Thank you, yeah the nut filing or replacement is the one thing I have not yet done. I totally forgot about that before making my post. Is it something I could do myself, or best left to a professional?

 

[AaeCee]

First, IME and therefore IMO, all tuning issues are fixable other than from extremes like twisted neck problems. Second, the issue is usually, to the point of almost always, the nut.

Although I'm sure your luthier is a good one, I still suspect that something wasn't properly set up. As you bought it new, I'd consider sending it back to PRS and let the PTC make an assessment. Then you'll have it evaluated by the very best, and your only cost would be one-way postage, which will be less than another trip to the luthier.

 

[Aahzz]

Thank you, yeah the nut filing or replacement is the one thing I have not yet done. I totally forgot about that before making my post. Is it something I could do myself, or best left to a professional?

Personally, I leave nut work to a pro. I know others that do it themself, so it all depends how handy you are .

 

[mranonymous]

it's possible the knife edges of the tremolo were damaged during its' long stay at the music store (if it was out on display). That could cause serious tuning issues.

Very interesting, is there an easy way I could check for this? In other words, would the damage be something that is visible?

 

[mranonymous]

First, IME and therefore IMO, all tuning issues are fixable other than from extremes like twisted neck problems. Second, the issue is usually, to the point of almost always, the nut.

Although I'm sure your luthier is a good one, I still suspect that something wasn't properly set up. As you bought it new, I'd consider sending it back to PRS and let the PTC make an assessment. Then you'll have it evaluated by the very best, and your only cost would be one-way postage, which will be less than another trip to the luthier.

Awesome, this is great to know. As nut filing/replacement is the one thing that the luthier did not do, the odds seem really high that this may be the issue.

The only problem is that the place I bought the guitar from is not on the authorized PRS list. I did not even notice this until after the guitar arrived (still pretty unseasoned when it comes to buying guitars online). So I think I'd have to pay for it all :/

Personally, I leave nut work to a pro. I know others that do it themself, so it all depends how handy you are .

Not very handy to be honest! I'll have someone else handle it, thanks again for the info

 

[AaeCee]

Awesome, this is great to know. As nut filing/replacement is the one thing that the luthier did not do, the odds seem really high that this may be the issue.

Certainly intending no criticism towards you, but any luthier presented with a guitar exhibiting tuning problems that doesn't address the nut before anything else, is not a very good or attentive luthier. Shame on him.

 

[mranonymous]

Certainly intending no criticism towards you, but any luthier presented with a guitar exhibiting tuning problems that doesn't address the nut before anything else, is not a very good or attentive luthier. Shame on him.

Yeah good point. I'll be sure to try to find someone else to check the nut and file it if need be

 

[Broseph]

do you use the tremolo arm? I know you mentioned the bridge is seated "correctly" but that can vary wildly depending on proper floating for a PRS vs what most people decide to do with a Strat.

 

[mranonymous]

do you use the tremolo arm? I know you mentioned the bridge is seated "correctly" but that can vary wildly depending on proper floating for a PRS vs what most people decide to do with a Strat.

I don't, I believe I used it once when I first got the guitar but haven't used it at all since then

 

[HRC-E.B.]

Have you put on a set of strings that's bigger than the factory strings?

 

[Rider1260]

NO to answer your question.
I ALWAYS suggest the same thing IF you luther did not mess anything up ;/
( seen plenty of "luthiers " that have ZERO idea as to how to set up a PRS )
First Play the guitar aggressively , dive bombs , wiggles etc , then tune up to pitch ,repeat the guitar will 100% get better the PRS nut is self lubing and gets better with more use.

What this video check your set up

If that fails I would contact PRS and they can get you squared away.

 

[Broseph]

yep. I suggest checking bridge, including the claw screw positions. The nut would seem obvious if it was noticeable sitar sound during open strings, but as others said, a good luthier would have easily caught that. I have my doubts the 3 tuners are the issue but if nothing else they may be worth investigating.

 

[The Dragonator]

There are some bizarre issues that can make some Les Pauls and more SGs hard to keep in tune no matter what you do, but of all the top model guitars I have owned, I am regularly impressed with the amazing tuning stability of all the Core I have now. Assuming you properly string 'em, properly stretch out new strings, change 'em when they are getting close to totally shot. PRS Core tuning stability puts almost all other electrics to shame. Even an SE will keep great tune if you put a set of locking tuners on them.

 

[12manD]

It's also possible, but maybe not likely, that the string is slipping out of the tuner little by little. I had a CU24 that I assume somebody really cranked down on the tuners locking thumb screw and damaged the screw or the tuner.the string would slip out if I didnt tighten down extra tight. On mine the string would just flat pop out of the tuner but it could be something where it is subtly slipping.

 

[dogrocketp]

Is the trem floating parallel to the body? IF it's out of adjustment, it'll never stay in tune. The only other thing I can think of is my 2003 CE24, which had everything changed because it was a beaten road dog. It still wouldn't stay in tune. One day I noticed the trem claw had been mounted crookedly and hit the back plate. Had it remounted, and the problem was gone. Also keep in mind that very good luthiers that aren't familiar with PRS trems, usually deck them like strats and really make problems. We'll all be curious as to how you can sort this out.