aphantomvaper
Bend it to the Owl!
My entire life.
How long did it take you to become proficient at playing the guitar?
- Thread starter MikeD
- Start date
davesultra
New Member
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2015
- Messages
- 163
Still working on it. BTW- I’m not even remotely close. Oh well!
JasonE
New Member
For me it depends on the exact definition of the term proficient. I learned pretty fast when I finally got an electric guitar. I started on an acoustic and I could play chords and songs for people and even sing a little with it. Some would call that proficient.
Once I got into electric guitar I was able to start making the music I really wanted to make so I played a lot more. I started playing with other people and that led to my first bands. Some would call that proficient.
I had to put a lot of work into leaning songs and didn't have the depth of theory knowledge that I really needed to have to learn them faster and be able to improvise. I spent a couple of years taking lessons and focusing on fretboard theory and applying that to my playing and what I already knew. This opened up many doors for me. My playing improved a lot once I incorporated this knowledge into my playing. That is when I would say that I became proficient with my playing. It was and still am able to jump into a group and play songs that I don't really know and not embarrass myself. I can get called out to take a solo and handle it. This was many years after I started playing. However, I was able to do what I needed to do in all of the situations up to this point if I put in the work to make it happen.
Once I got into electric guitar I was able to start making the music I really wanted to make so I played a lot more. I started playing with other people and that led to my first bands. Some would call that proficient.
I had to put a lot of work into leaning songs and didn't have the depth of theory knowledge that I really needed to have to learn them faster and be able to improvise. I spent a couple of years taking lessons and focusing on fretboard theory and applying that to my playing and what I already knew. This opened up many doors for me. My playing improved a lot once I incorporated this knowledge into my playing. That is when I would say that I became proficient with my playing. It was and still am able to jump into a group and play songs that I don't really know and not embarrass myself. I can get called out to take a solo and handle it. This was many years after I started playing. However, I was able to do what I needed to do in all of the situations up to this point if I put in the work to make it happen.
markd21
New Member
I am an educator by profession. I deal with 10 and 11 year olds all day. My daily task is to push them toward proficiency according to State-determined criteria. A "student" is determined to be proficient when they have acquired a functional literacy level for their mental development, Throw in the factor that no two children develop at the same rate/same time (something the bureaucrats determining these things often forget then it is truly difficult to determine what true proficiency is.
Ok, douche....what does that mean in terms of the post???
I view my guitar playing proficiency in this way:
"Have I improved in areas that satisfy me as a creative musician and sound artist?"
Yes.
My proficiency on the instrument is not 100% - it NEVER will be. There will ALWAYS be somebody that brings the instrument to another level. I am not that guy. I am proficient enough on my instrument to reproduce most of the music I hear in my head. I write music. THAT was always my goal, from the first day I picked up a guitar was to create. So, in that regard I feel I am proficient. However, I am ALWAYS pushing myself and learning new styles of music and applying new and differing levels of theory and construction to the music I create.
I can not play anybody else's songs. I can not play another players solo/lead. When I DO learn a cover song, it is either to perform in a set-list for a run of gigs, or to record it. Either way, it is done MY way. I will rearrange the song to fit the band I am with - original bands - so it fits in with our sound. Once I have learned it and played it I forget all about it. If it comes back, I need to relearn it. In THAT regard I lack ANY proficiency.
So, for me it comes down to determining how I define proficiency and, am I comfortable WITH that definition. Your mileage may vary on how you determine proficiency, and that's cool. It's what makes us individuals. I am satisfied with the direction my playing has gone over the years and I am excited for the continued journey that is music. For I am a musician first and a guitarist second, if you know what I mean....
Ok, douche....what does that mean in terms of the post???
I view my guitar playing proficiency in this way:
"Have I improved in areas that satisfy me as a creative musician and sound artist?"
Yes.
My proficiency on the instrument is not 100% - it NEVER will be. There will ALWAYS be somebody that brings the instrument to another level. I am not that guy. I am proficient enough on my instrument to reproduce most of the music I hear in my head. I write music. THAT was always my goal, from the first day I picked up a guitar was to create. So, in that regard I feel I am proficient. However, I am ALWAYS pushing myself and learning new styles of music and applying new and differing levels of theory and construction to the music I create.
I can not play anybody else's songs. I can not play another players solo/lead. When I DO learn a cover song, it is either to perform in a set-list for a run of gigs, or to record it. Either way, it is done MY way. I will rearrange the song to fit the band I am with - original bands - so it fits in with our sound. Once I have learned it and played it I forget all about it. If it comes back, I need to relearn it. In THAT regard I lack ANY proficiency.
So, for me it comes down to determining how I define proficiency and, am I comfortable WITH that definition. Your mileage may vary on how you determine proficiency, and that's cool. It's what makes us individuals. I am satisfied with the direction my playing has gone over the years and I am excited for the continued journey that is music. For I am a musician first and a guitarist second, if you know what I mean....
DISTORT6
NJ Devil
Any day now, any day…
bodia
Authorities said.....best leave it.....unsolved
I still suck at playing guitar
FragileThunder
The Space Between The Notes
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2022
- Messages
- 660
Proficiency by whose standard? I mean, I'm not there by ANY standard 
- but it's kind of subjective, right? I know that I wouldn't describe my playing as proficient "enough" by my measure, because there's a place I'd like to be that I haven't reached. But I've played live gigs since the '80s, recorded in a handful of professional studios and released an album once upon a time. So I'm sure by somebody's standard, that's a level of proficiency.
When the day comes that I can literally play anything I can think, free of physical, mechanical or mental obstacle, I'll probably feel like I've reached true proficiency. But in a sense, I hope that day never comes, because I thoroughly enjoy the process of getting there (most of the time).
- but it's kind of subjective, right? I know that I wouldn't describe my playing as proficient "enough" by my measure, because there's a place I'd like to be that I haven't reached. But I've played live gigs since the '80s, recorded in a handful of professional studios and released an album once upon a time. So I'm sure by somebody's standard, that's a level of proficiency.When the day comes that I can literally play anything I can think, free of physical, mechanical or mental obstacle, I'll probably feel like I've reached true proficiency. But in a sense, I hope that day never comes, because I thoroughly enjoy the process of getting there (most of the time).
SteveGlitch
We are all one so we may as well have some fun ❤
The guitar is an unrelenting tool of unforgiveness...
You will never master it because you will never 100% learn it. You will never even 100% appreciate it. You may only think or believe you are proficient at it but in reality, even after 50 years of playing, you are still beginning.
Let's be real here
You will never master it because you will never 100% learn it. You will never even 100% appreciate it. You may only think or believe you are proficient at it but in reality, even after 50 years of playing, you are still beginning.
Let's be real here
Victor Vector
Born to Rip
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2023
- Messages
- 127
We once had an old newspaper comic clipping hanging at the shop that was of a little girl with a violin sitting in front of her music teacher looking up at him and asking "can we just skip to the part where I'm good?"
I think we all acknowledge the enormity of knowledge there is to fully appreciate the instrument we love so much.
The majority realize this is a lifelong journey , and it gets better each day.
I tried to take lessons a few times locally in the past 5 years , just to bring me up a notch .. NOBODY would teach me , because ... I'm too old
( rapidly approaching my 7th decade)
seriuously 3 places told me -- we like to save our slots for younger students ...
So I do what I've always done , continue to learn from other artists.
The majority realize this is a lifelong journey , and it gets better each day.
I tried to take lessons a few times locally in the past 5 years , just to bring me up a notch .. NOBODY would teach me , because ... I'm too old
( rapidly approaching my 7th decade)
seriuously 3 places told me -- we like to save our slots for younger students ...
So I do what I've always done , continue to learn from other artists.
JasonE
New Member
I have actually been thinking about doing this. I look at this a bit different than a lot of people and I have an executive from one of my past jobs for the way I see it. He doesn't even know that he said something that completely changed my mind on guitar lessons.I saw an interview of Mark Knopfler from a few years ago maybe where he said he was interested in taking guitar lessons.
This guy is a good golfer. He has won the local country club tournament where he lives multiple times. His wife is really good and has won the women's tournament more than once. We were talking about golf and he told me that he takes a few lessons at the beginning of each playing season just to get his swing tuned up for the season and get started off the right way. That made me think if someone as good at golf as him takes lessons each year, why am I not taking some sort of guitar lesson each year to tune things up and maybe explore an area of playing that I could use more work on or want to incorporate into my playing. Now that I have typed this, I am thinking that I need to find a good teacher and do this where I live now.
That is some BS. They should fill the slots with paying customers no matter what their age is. You need to find a teacher that teaches advanced players. They would be happy to do it. They love when someone that knows how to play comes to them. They get to go deeper into things than they get to with their typical young student. I used to like it when someone that could play came to me for lessons. I was able to raise their understanding of what they were doing and show them how to expand on it. I am rusty now but would love to get back into some sort of study on guitar. It always expands my playing. I have tried to start a self study a few times but haven't found the subject matter that interests me enough to really dig in.
SteveGlitch
We are all one so we may as well have some fun ❤
I'm sorry to hear that, hopefully they're not creepers trying to groom teens (I've seen this in the past as I live in a music city).
I've taught guitar to quite a few people and found that I'd much rather teach older students than younger ones. The younger ones can be impatient, had one that wanted to learn how to play "Canon in C" in his third week of playing. Of course he disappeared not after long. I feel like older students understand more as far as knowing that it's going to take time to get decent.
Juan Luis Vidal
Not so new member
The more I play the more frustrated I get, skill-wise. I mean, I feel that the more I learn the more I am aware of what I do not know and sometimes, only sometimes, I get frustrated. Specially when I realize I have been playing guitar since I was 16 or 17 (and now I'm 47).
I'm aware it's mostly my fault. I have always been a song-centric player…I always had a blast whenever I learned a new song, a new riff from someone or wrote my own. But I always found extremely boring putting too much time into fretboard gymnastics, you know...playing scales up and down, practicing sweep pickings, tappings and whatnot...and I guess it shows. Obviously I'm good enough to play in a band, write our own songs and play covers but as an individual guitarist I'm nowhere near as good as I thought I could be given enough time.
I'm aware it's mostly my fault. I have always been a song-centric player…I always had a blast whenever I learned a new song, a new riff from someone or wrote my own. But I always found extremely boring putting too much time into fretboard gymnastics, you know...playing scales up and down, practicing sweep pickings, tappings and whatnot...and I guess it shows. Obviously I'm good enough to play in a band, write our own songs and play covers but as an individual guitarist I'm nowhere near as good as I thought I could be given enough time.
JasonE
New Member
As long as you are still able to play, it is never too late to learn more. There comes a point in the learning process where you really start to understand and hear a difference in what you are doing. This is when it gets exciting and you have some tools to start making your music a little more interesting.
Big Owl
Tone is everything
Hey. Well somehow I made it to being an old guy.
I know that we all experience reaching a plateau and feeling like we aren't improving.
I have mostly worked as a singer and percussionist, but have always loved the guitar.
I went through a serious time in the doldrums, after my wife passed away. After a year or so, I bought a new PRS McCarty 594. This guitar actually reminds me of the wonderful (McCarty) woman I lost. Now I am playing a lot more. And discovering new licks and even wrote a new song. So, having an excellent guitar has helped me along. As is sometimes said, "I never knew it could be like this". And that certainly applies to my HB II. So, find motivation where you can, but wow I am digging this new guitar.
I know that we all experience reaching a plateau and feeling like we aren't improving.
I have mostly worked as a singer and percussionist, but have always loved the guitar.
I went through a serious time in the doldrums, after my wife passed away. After a year or so, I bought a new PRS McCarty 594. This guitar actually reminds me of the wonderful (McCarty) woman I lost. Now I am playing a lot more. And discovering new licks and even wrote a new song. So, having an excellent guitar has helped me along. As is sometimes said, "I never knew it could be like this". And that certainly applies to my HB II. So, find motivation where you can, but wow I am digging this new guitar.
Tedder
Unprofessional
I started my musical journey with drums in the marching band at a public school for 2 years, maybe at the age of 13. But I was a problem kid and my family decided I needed to be in a religious private school. That school has a jazz band that moonlighted once a year as the marching band. I signed up to play the drum kit, as did one other kid. Both of us were at about the same level, and there was a need for a bass player. I had some money from a summer job so I bought a bass. I learned how to sight read and could play walking bass lines pretty much on the fly with sheet music. I felt somewhat proficient then.
But I got kicked out of that school for doing what I did best, not conforming. I wanted to play guitar and started to learn open chords, but I ended up dropping out of school, going to juvi and then being homeless for many years. I still found myself playing the guitar here and there as I ran into them, but I was never good at it.
Eventually I found myself with a guitar of my own and would play for money with the case open at a walking mall, but I still couldn't just play whatever I wanted. But I did feel like I could say that I played guitar. By now, I'm in my mid 20's. But I had to focus on getting off of the streets. (Playing my first PRS planted the seed to do so). The sheer amount of work that went into getting off of the streets, getting better and better jobs etc... left me with little time to practice and not a lot of money to put into music. I sort of drifted away from it. Life got in the way.
Fast forward many years, I found myself going through a divorce. By now I was able to jam with my friends in an improv style for simple arrangements where one could hang out in a minor pent key and not play wrong notes. Is this "Proficient"? I was improving, but still always amazed with the local guitar players when I went to a show. The divorce gave me time to myself again and I wanted to be in a gigging band. I found some folks to write music with, and we practiced 3 times a week for 7-8 months coming up with 45-60 minutes of original music. We played one show, before the rhythm section moved away and or stopped showing up. That was my first gig as an adult. It was awesome and terrifying. I was shown all of the things I didn't know about live sound, playing while nervous, forgetting that you were being watched and getting into the moment etc... but I was at my best. This was 2013 and I was 39.
10 years later, and with no real dedication to practicing on my own, I found myself hosting a music night at my house. We now have about 11 covers and one original, and talk of gigging out once in a while. I'm feeling more and more like I can play the guitar OK, BUT I keep only thinking about where I am not yet, and not how far I've come. It takes compliments from other people to remind me that I have come further than most. But every time I go out and see a band, I can't help but think that I'm not there yet.
I honestly would not consider myself anything more than an OK guitarist. I don't write easily, I can't play fast technical solo's and I don't know a lot about theory. But I am thinking about taking lessons for the first time.... just not sure how I would find the time to do it. In the meantime, I love to play and will keep doing it until my hands or my mind starts failing.
But I got kicked out of that school for doing what I did best, not conforming. I wanted to play guitar and started to learn open chords, but I ended up dropping out of school, going to juvi and then being homeless for many years. I still found myself playing the guitar here and there as I ran into them, but I was never good at it.
Eventually I found myself with a guitar of my own and would play for money with the case open at a walking mall, but I still couldn't just play whatever I wanted. But I did feel like I could say that I played guitar. By now, I'm in my mid 20's. But I had to focus on getting off of the streets. (Playing my first PRS planted the seed to do so). The sheer amount of work that went into getting off of the streets, getting better and better jobs etc... left me with little time to practice and not a lot of money to put into music. I sort of drifted away from it. Life got in the way.
Fast forward many years, I found myself going through a divorce. By now I was able to jam with my friends in an improv style for simple arrangements where one could hang out in a minor pent key and not play wrong notes. Is this "Proficient"? I was improving, but still always amazed with the local guitar players when I went to a show. The divorce gave me time to myself again and I wanted to be in a gigging band. I found some folks to write music with, and we practiced 3 times a week for 7-8 months coming up with 45-60 minutes of original music. We played one show, before the rhythm section moved away and or stopped showing up. That was my first gig as an adult. It was awesome and terrifying. I was shown all of the things I didn't know about live sound, playing while nervous, forgetting that you were being watched and getting into the moment etc... but I was at my best. This was 2013 and I was 39.
10 years later, and with no real dedication to practicing on my own, I found myself hosting a music night at my house. We now have about 11 covers and one original, and talk of gigging out once in a while. I'm feeling more and more like I can play the guitar OK, BUT I keep only thinking about where I am not yet, and not how far I've come. It takes compliments from other people to remind me that I have come further than most. But every time I go out and see a band, I can't help but think that I'm not there yet.
I honestly would not consider myself anything more than an OK guitarist. I don't write easily, I can't play fast technical solo's and I don't know a lot about theory. But I am thinking about taking lessons for the first time.... just not sure how I would find the time to do it. In the meantime, I love to play and will keep doing it until my hands or my mind starts failing.
Awhile back I was at a gig with a local artist who was trying out one of my instruments . He loved it , so I told him I trade him for lessons....
he turned me down .. go figure.. in truth I probably could have shown him a few things , but there is always some new approach to learn.
I'm fortunate to work with artists 3 nights a week , so when somebody comes through , being the sound guy we talk shop and I soak up every trick I can . I love the old blues guys " play with absolute conviction to every note, you don't have to play a lot of them"
It's quite a hoot when we havve he open jams, people see that I play a lot better than they knew , then of course they want me to do it more .. all they while ,,I'm just a sideman in heaven
he turned me down .. go figure.. in truth I probably could have shown him a few things , but there is always some new approach to learn.
I'm fortunate to work with artists 3 nights a week , so when somebody comes through , being the sound guy we talk shop and I soak up every trick I can . I love the old blues guys " play with absolute conviction to every note, you don't have to play a lot of them"
It's quite a hoot when we havve he open jams, people see that I play a lot better than they knew , then of course they want me to do it more .. all they while ,,I'm just a sideman in heaven
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Daryl Jones
non-practicing pacifist
Proficiency isn't a word I readily identify with. If I've learned anything in the last 25 years or so it's that I measure myself the only way I can to judge where things have come to and from. Hearing my own recordings whether I make them or somebody sends me something I've played live. I know I don't run with anyone in the professional world of guitar playing. I waited far too late in life to start playing seriously to go there.
But as I teach my martial arts students, don't try to be better than anyone lese, just be better than you were yesterday. Take it one day at a time and keep watching the progression on your own terms.
I remember trying to make sense out of the pentatonic scale about 25 years ago. And I thought to myself WTF is this weird stuff all about anyway? I just want to play something I recognize. I kept trying to relate guitar to piano and wind instruments. Then I met a guitar guru that eventually became my mentor. The first thing he taught me was a two part question: "How do you make a piano player stop playing?" and "How do you make a guitar player start playing?" I was dumfounded, I didn't get it, at all. Then he told me: "Same answer to both questions...take the sheet music away."
Took a while, but I did finally get it. I had to put away the standard form of music I knew from years of sheet music and sight reading and learn/ understand tabulature and different forms of written music. I still to this day struggle with percussion tabs and sheets of band music for drums. It's an alien world to me in many ways. I still have the natural feel for rhythm in music, that is universal. But relating it to actually playing guitar was much harder. Learning the percussive side to a stringed instrument was very difficult for me for whatever reason. Possibly the fact that there is a hard and fast set of rules and absolutes to playing keys and guitar doesn't really follow that premise. Pianos do not bend notes, nor do they slide into notes and progressions the same way. Again, very difficult for me to grasp.
Add into that the ravages of time and age and it was another stumbling block to overcome. But certainly worth the effort. I will never be a Jeff Beck (few of us will I suppose) or a David Gilmour. But at least I can understand and appreciate the genius in their musical abilities in a way I never could before. But proficient? Meh, not hardly. But there is understanding and to a greater degree, dare I say it: skill. At least to some degree of recognizable form. If I can keep that curve going, I will have succeeded.
But as I teach my martial arts students, don't try to be better than anyone lese, just be better than you were yesterday. Take it one day at a time and keep watching the progression on your own terms.
I remember trying to make sense out of the pentatonic scale about 25 years ago. And I thought to myself WTF is this weird stuff all about anyway? I just want to play something I recognize. I kept trying to relate guitar to piano and wind instruments. Then I met a guitar guru that eventually became my mentor. The first thing he taught me was a two part question: "How do you make a piano player stop playing?" and "How do you make a guitar player start playing?" I was dumfounded, I didn't get it, at all. Then he told me: "Same answer to both questions...take the sheet music away."
Took a while, but I did finally get it. I had to put away the standard form of music I knew from years of sheet music and sight reading and learn/ understand tabulature and different forms of written music. I still to this day struggle with percussion tabs and sheets of band music for drums. It's an alien world to me in many ways. I still have the natural feel for rhythm in music, that is universal. But relating it to actually playing guitar was much harder. Learning the percussive side to a stringed instrument was very difficult for me for whatever reason. Possibly the fact that there is a hard and fast set of rules and absolutes to playing keys and guitar doesn't really follow that premise. Pianos do not bend notes, nor do they slide into notes and progressions the same way. Again, very difficult for me to grasp.
Add into that the ravages of time and age and it was another stumbling block to overcome. But certainly worth the effort. I will never be a Jeff Beck (few of us will I suppose) or a David Gilmour. But at least I can understand and appreciate the genius in their musical abilities in a way I never could before. But proficient? Meh, not hardly. But there is understanding and to a greater degree, dare I say it: skill. At least to some degree of recognizable form. If I can keep that curve going, I will have succeeded.
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