HB I vs HB II - Tone Test Difference

[CVS]

OK - I just purchased a charcoal burst 2015 HB II with 57/08 pickups (pics already posted in a previous thread). I already have a 2008 HB I with Archtop pickups. Both guitars have Rosewood fretboards. The HB II has a maple top and back while the HB I has a mahogany top and back. The HB II has 11 gauge strings while the HB I has 10 gauge strings (I know - to do the test, it would have been better if both guitars had the same string gauges). I purchased the HB II because it has a piezo and I want to eliminate the need to bring an extra guitar to gigs and band practices. My thinking was that the electric guitar sounds produced by both these guitars would be close to the same. I was also thinking that I might sell the HB I to partially fund my next PRS purchase. So I decided to run a "controlled" test. I ran 2 tests.

I used a Fender Blues Junior (tube amp) to do the testing with clean setting with reverb set to about 4

Test 1 - Neck pickup, Volume and Tone set to 10, clean
Test 2 - Bridge pickup, Volume & Tone set to 10 - Use pedal with moderate amount of distortion (gain & fat)

My conclusions -

1. The tones produced by the HB I were somewhat brighter than the tones produced by the HB II in both settings (Could this be due to string gauge difference? Wood difference? Pick up difference? Combination of all 3?)
2. The tone produced by the HB II was somewhat more more "rounded" than the HB I tone (especially noticeable when played on clean setting)

I then brought in an expert - my wife :biggrin:, who I had listen to the 2 guitars in another room so that she would not know which one was being played and she "validated" my findings.

Now I have decided that I will not sell my HB I - So time to go back to "work" to fund my next PRS (a 513)!

Comments & opinions welcome. Is there any other test that I should perform? Am I tone deaf???

 

[Whitecat]

String gauge difference aside, were the strings the same type/age (ideally fresh on each?)

 

[CVS]

The strings on the brand new HB II were fresh. The strings on the HB I have been on the guitar for at least 3 months (and the guitar has been played a lot during that time). I am lazy when it come to changing guitar strings.....

 

[Whitecat]

Could mean then the difference would be even more pronounced than you think now. Probably worth trying with a fresh set.

 

[CVS]

Could mean then the difference would be even more pronounced than you think now. Probably worth trying with a fresh set.

I think you are correct about fresh string making the difference more pronounced. I have to take the HB I in for a fret dressing soon, so I will change strings then. While I have a number of guitars, the HB I has been one of my primary "go to" guitars over the past 5 years. I don't think I can let it go, especially now that I hear a difference in the tone (which I was not expecting).

 

[Dancing Frog]

I have a HB I with a piezo that came with Archtops which I replaced with 57/08's. That change was very dramatic, and it really rounded out the guitar. So, I think the difference is mainly the pick ups. Len, who did the change, called me on my cell and said three words, "made in heaven." It was the first HB to get 57/08's.

 

[BALIstic]

Pics please......If I can't hear the difference I want to try and visualise it

I just want to see pretty pice of some HB's.

 

[Egads]

I think the pups and string guages are most of what you are hearing in the difference. I would think the maple back would help brighten the guitar a little, meaning the other influences are even stronger.

Not an apples to apples comparison, but both my SC HB Standard (all hog) and SC HB II have 57/98s. The standard is not as complex, with a very balanced tone. There's more midrange presence without it being dominant. The II is...smoky. It sounds more scooped on the upper mids, but fuller on the low mids--kinda throaty. I was expecting a little more brightness when I ordered the II. I'm not disappointed that it turned out the way it did.

 

[vchizzle]

Interesting! I would've guessed the exact opposite results. String gauge can make a huge difference though. It's one reason I have a hard time trying out guitars and guessing how they compare to what I already own. Most PRS come with 10's on these days. For my band stuff, I'm tuned down to drop C and my strings are 11 14 18 36 52 60. So my guitars are rather mammothly sounding. It's a tough comparison. I'd get the same strings on each and see what the result is. I'm not familiar with Archtop pickups at all, so I really have no reference point there.

 

[Huggy Love]

I think you are correct about fresh string making the difference more pronounced. I have to take the HB I in for a fret dressing soon, so I will change strings then. While I have a number of guitars, the HB I has been one of my primary "go to" guitars over the past 5 years. I don't think I can let it go, especially now that I hear a difference in the tone (which I was not expecting).

Yes, please do a re-test when the guitars are on the "same playing field". I must admit that my findings were the exact opposite, I compared my HBII w/archtop pups next to one with 57/08s and found the one with 57/08s to be crisper sounding, with more articulate highs, so I'm a little puzzled by your findings. Granted my HB II doesn't do a real thick jazz box tone but I can get close. The 57/08s took a little tweaking of amp settings to darken up the tone. Maybe it could be the HB I vs HB II construction or materials difference, could be.

That being said, not only does the newness of strings play a factor but so does the setup and pickup height, so if you re-test check out those factors too.

Congrats on the new axe but, we need pics baby!!

 

[László]

Why not record some clips when you do the next test, and post them to Soundcloud? I'll bet that would be interesting.

 

[CVS]

Here are pics

 

[CVS]

Interesting! I would've guessed the exact opposite results. String gauge can make a huge difference though. It's one reason I have a hard time trying out guitars and guessing how they compare to what I already own. Most PRS come with 10's on these days. For my band stuff, I'm tuned down to drop C and my strings are 11 14 18 36 52 60. So my guitars are rather mammothly sounding. It's a tough comparison. I'd get the same strings on each and see what the result is. I'm not familiar with Archtop pickups at all, so I really have no reference point there.

I agree & think string gauge is a factor. My guess is that PRS uses 11 gauge strings (with a wound G string - which I will replace ASAP. ) on the HB II is because of the piezo and the desire to get a better acoustic sound (I would like to know if my assumption is true or not). I would prefer to have 10 gauge on both guitars (I do I lot of whole bend string stretches), but I plan to make no changes for a while.

The good news is that I really like the tone that both guitars have at the moment.

 

[shinksma]

From your first post:

The HB II has a maple top and back while the HB I has a mahogany top and back.

This surprised me when I first read it, but didn't get a chance to respond. From the photo you posted, it looks like you have a Spruce HB - the top is Spruce (vs maple), and the rest is hog (like a McCarty solid body, except, well, hollowed out).

I have a Spruce HB (with piezo), looks very similar to yours.

As to your tone report: I am surprised the (Spruce) HB came back brighter than the HB II - the pups should have made the HB II brighter, the maple cap and back should have made the HB II brighter, and the newer strings should have made the HB II brighter.

Could it be the difference in stop tails, and the presence of the piezo saddles on the HB II?

Hmm, interesting...

 

[CVS]

Sorry for the error - The HB I does have a Spruce top (and not mahogany) as I indicated above.

As for what my ears heard,, I am with you on what they should have heard, but I can only report what I did hear.

I will run the test again after I have had new strings put on the HB I and fret dressing completed. Probably 2-4 weeks time

Appreciate your's and everybody's input.

 

[CVS]

Why not record some clips when you do the next test, and post them to Soundcloud? I'll bet that would be interesting.

Les,

I like the idea, but unfortunately the only equipment that I have for recording is my iPhone. Wish you studio was closer to Southern Cal.

Carl

 

[solacematt]

My HB1 is a spruce top as well and I gotta agree with you, the McCarty Archtop pickups just have a little something more. There's just an earthiness I feel like you don't get out of the mahogony. AB'ing my Spruce with my AP one I hear the difference immediately.

 

[László]

Les,

Wish you studio was closer to Southern Cal.

Carl

So do I!

 

[shinksma]

Regarding string gauge on HBs with piezo:

I have 10s on both my P24 (stock) and Spruce HB w/ piezo (because i wanted to see what it was like) - I used 11s for the longest time though. While is is a bit easier to bend using the 10s, I didn't have too much worries with 11s and a wound-G on the HB. YMMV, though - I also play acoustic, with 12s (I think), and do some bending on that too, so my hand/finger strength is pretty good, I guess.

I think I'm gonna go back to stock 11s/woundG on the HB, just to compare and get a different tone, maybe.

 

[CVS]

I think I'm gonna go back to stock 11s/woundG on the HB, just to compare and get a different tone, maybe.[/QUOTE]

I plan to change out the wound G string that came on my HB II this week. I don't really have any problems with whole step bends on the E and B strings, but I cannot for the life of me do a whole step bend on the wound G string (and I use middle finger and index finger to support string bends)