Further Research Shows Gibson LP 2015 issues, buying PRS After all

Macmutt

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Been doing some research on the new 2015 Les Paul's, primarily the new brass nut and Geforce tuning system is where the problems are occurring

Turns out Gibson is using a soft brass for that zero fret nut, so when the Geforce tuner is being used it's creating such friction that its wearing grooves into the brass nut and leaving metal dust residue on the fretboard.

Plus some people have been having issues with recharging the Geforce battery.

So knowing these latest issues, I can't risk spending that kind of money...So looks like it's a PRS for me after all.
 
Thanks for the information. Nothing against Gibson, but I wasn't going to buy gimmicks at those prices anyway.
 
I don't hate gibson but I feel like they are killing themselves. I miss my L.P. but if Iwas playing it at a gig I would curse it.
 
Been doing some research on the new 2015 Les Paul's, primarily the new brass nut and Geforce tuning system is where the problems are occurring

Turns out Gibson is using a soft brass for that zero fret nut, so when the Geforce tuner is being used it's creating such friction that its wearing grooves into the brass nut and leaving metal dust residue on the fretboard.

Plus some people have been having issues with recharging the Geforce battery..

Here's the problem that they have with that system: First, if there's too much friction in the nut, the tuning system won't work at all. So the nut has to have a groove cut lengthwise in the middle and the zero fret to minimize the contact between the string and the nut.

Since the plated steel on most of their strings is harder than the brass nut, and since the nut's actual contact points are quite narrow, you have a recipe for wear issues.

I suppose a trem system poses a recipe for friction, too, but after many years of making guitars with trems, most of those issues have been solved already by various makers.

I don't know what that big trench in the nut does to affect the tone, but it probably isn't the same thing as having the string contact the nut the way it does on a traditional nut, regardless of what it's made of.

The second issue I have with the tuning system is that as with any electronic device, after a certain period of time it isn't likely to be supported by the manufacturer. This wouldn't be as big a deal if it was an old computer, or an old cell phone, or even an old car, but with a musical instrument that can last for generations, it might prove to be a very big deal indeed.

I hate tuning, but I hate string changes. more I think if the system changed strings for me, I'd buy it despite the drawbacks!

This of course has nothing to do with the weight, the ability of the tuning mechanisms to last for many years, etc. I'm talking about the ability to work at ALL once better technology becomes available.

I do applaud Gibson for trying something new. Whether it should be optional instead of standard is another matter entirely. Whether a big plastic thingamajig hanging off the headstock is or isn't a good thing aesthetically, I leave to others to decide.

But if I was young enough to look forward to 20 or 30 years with my guitar, I really wouldn't want to depend on that machinery for anywhere near that long.
 
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Grats Macmutt!

The important thing is that you are buying the guitar that your heart is telling you to. Others opinions (including mine) are valuable only insomuch as they validate the choice your heart is driving you to.

I'm keenly interested in your decision as, like I mentioned, I was literally in your exact same boat about 2 months ago. I have the cash for one primo guitar (Until my kids clear college) and that guitar was, for the past 3 years, to be a new Les Paul. Gibson's massive changes for 2015 altered my choice and I feel fate stepped in and steered me to PRS. I literally just came upstairs from jamming on my MC58 and can honestly tell you I could not be happier with my decision. The 57/08's are ridiculously expressive pickups IMHO.

Used PRS guitars in great shape are out there if you are willing to look for them. I found a lightly used/pristine MC58 signed by Paul himself for under $2K. A new Les Paul would have set me back north of $3K. So I took the extra $1K I would have spent on the LP and I bought myself a Mesa Rectoverb25 head and will get a cabinet to go with it in the next few weeks. So for just over the price of a LP I will have an entire new setup to enjoy for a long, long time!

Keep us posted on what guitar catches your eye (whether it's a PRS, Gibby or Strat) and enjoy the hunt! it truly is half the fun!

Steve
 
The second issue I have with the tuning system is that as with any electronic device, after a certain period of time it isn't likely to be supported by the manufacturer. This wouldn't be as big a deal if it was an old computer, or an old cell phone, or even an old car, but with a musical instrument that can last for generations, it might prove to be a very big deal indeed.

That is a great point! As a matter of fact, I happen to know that the earlier generation of tuners (robot tuners) are already obsolete and no longer supported. It is perfectly reasonable to guess that these new generation of tuners will have a substantially shorted life span than traditional tuners. I'm glad I bought my 2014 Les Paul Traditional when I had the opportunity to do so. (I just wanted ONE good Les Paul in my collection.)

PRS is a great choice!
 
I don't hate gibson but I feel like they are killing themselves. I miss my L.P. but if Iwas playing it at a gig I would curse it.
I have to agree.
My 2012 Gibson '61 Reissue SG that I got when I got back into playing again after thirty years of not playing is flawless with the exception of going flat/sharp due to a wet neck I suspect.

I would not touch any of the new ones coming with the Mini Tune G Force system, and especially with the price increase.
I think PRS are a better value and better guitar, at least for me.
My 408 stays consistently in tune each weekend when I get it out of the case and hang it on the wall to play during the weekend.
Practically never goes flat/sharp.

Macmutt congrats, and let us know how you like it when you get it.
 
Been doing some research on the new 2015 Les Paul's, primarily the new brass nut and Geforce tuning system is where the problems are occurring

Turns out Gibson is using a soft brass for that zero fret nut, so when the Geforce tuner is being used it's creating such friction that its wearing grooves into the brass nut and leaving metal dust residue on the fretboard.

Plus some people have been having issues with recharging the Geforce battery.

So knowing these latest issues, I can't risk spending that kind of money...So looks like it's a PRS for me after all.

I'm calling BS on this whole post.

There have been ZERO reports I know of that involve wear on the nut. Please cite your sources. I'm betting you don't have any. Gibson doesn't just throw this stuff together. This stuff is tested to the tune of thousands of wear cycles for each prototype. Electronic tuners put the exact same force on the nut that your hand does when you turn them manually. Regardless of brass grade, and there aren't many that can be used for this function, brass is many times stronger than your standard tusq or graphite nut. I've never seen a nut wear out due to repeated tunings. Brass nuts are also nothing new to guitars. The Fender Malmsteen model has had a brass nut for as long as I can remember and there have been ZERO issues with that as far as I know.
 
I'm calling BS on this whole post.

There have been ZERO reports I know of that involve wear on the nut. Please cite your sources. I'm betting you don't have any. Gibson doesn't just throw this stuff together. This stuff is tested to the tune of thousands of wear cycles for each prototype. Electronic tuners put the exact same force on the nut that your hand does when you turn them manually. Regardless of brass grade, and there aren't many that can be used for this function, brass is many times stronger than your standard tusq or graphite nut. I've never seen a nut wear out due to repeated tunings. Brass nuts are also nothing new to guitars. The Fender Malmsteen model has had a brass nut for as long as I can remember and there have been ZERO issues with that as far as I know.

http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/forum/151-g-force-and-other-gibson-tech-guitars/

http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/118805-2015-gibson-les-paul-zero-fret-nut-metal-dust/
 
Was gonna post in the other thread, but you seemed to have made a decision before I got there. Anyhow, I think it would be at least worth your time to try to play a McCarty before you buy. I know you're looking for a slim neck, but the pattern or wide fat doesn't feel like a monster neck to me at least. I don't have massive huge hands either. Just give one a shot. I think it might suit your taste slightly better. If not, the custom 22 is a great guitar as well. It was my first PRS as well...still have it, great guitar.
 

You linked to one actual post that had 4 replies at the time I read it. This isn't "research"....and the soft brass was an uneducated opinion and one that can't be substantiated. Maybe they had a defective lot. This happens all the time in manufacturing. Maybe the flaking was the wound strings and NOT the brass. There is no info to support anything and its irresponsible to post things like this in this manner.
 
Kids won't know how to tune their guitars because of More electronics . Just like how they forgot how to pay outside...just sayin
 
You linked to one actual post that had 4 replies at the time I read it. This isn't "research"....and the soft brass was an uneducated opinion and one that can't be substantiated. Maybe they had a defective lot. This happens all the time in manufacturing. Maybe the flaking was the wound strings and NOT the brass. There is no info to support anything and its irresponsible to post things like this in this manner.

Look i'm a Gibson fan too, in fact I was just looking at some 2014 Les Paul's, but the single cut away, narrower neck, and chambered weight relieved bodies are also things that really bothered me, long before these issues with brass nut, and Geforce tuner occurred.

So it's a variety of issues both old and new....no need to take it personally.
 
I am thoroughly disenchanted with them last few years
I sold my Trad Pro, although it was awesome, needed cash

I'd only be interested in the low end models <$1000, without all that unnecessary tuning crap
My SE custom stays in tune no problem, after the new nut was properly cut.
Other tuning ? I have other designated guitars for that
 
Kids won't know how to tune their guitars because of More electronics . Just like how they forgot how to pay outside...just sayin


RIGHT ON BROTHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I took our nook away from my 11 year old son because it turned him into a jerk. That was a year ago and I can't remember where I hid it!
 
RIGHT ON BROTHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I took our nook away from my 11 year old son because it turned him into a jerk. That was a year ago and I can't remember where I hid it!

I hate to say this, but 11 year old boys are starting to reach that pre-teen age where they start to act, well, just a little crazy anyway.
 
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