Combo amp questions.... H, Custom 20, Sonzera 20, etc...

[henryjurstin13]

I've got a Dr. Z Monza I'm going to try to move and turn it into another amp, at the moment - I'm thinking a combo amp. I've been considering a 2 Channel Custom 20, Sonzera 20, or maybe even a Mesa Fillmore 25 (or 50?). But, then today I saw a 2 channel H combo cheaper than I've seen before, but didn't want my amp collection to overlap too much (as I've already got an H head). But, it's a screamin' deal!

Currently playing a DGT 90% of the time, with these:

PRS H > Mojotone 2x12 Slant w/Cannabis Rex
Carr Slant 6V
Line 6 DT25 (yeah, don't laugh - it's great)
Yamaha THR (10C and the 100HD which may or may not stick around)

Which combo would you go for? Has anyone directly compared a Fillmore with an H? How does the Custom 20 compare to the H? Feels redundant to get another H, but I like it a lot & my current H has been sketchy at different times. I'm in Northwest Arkansas, and have not played (or seen) any of these amps in person to try out.

 

[GrumpyOldDba]

What about archon 25 combo?

Lots of bargains out there used. I picked one up 749 bucks from GC seems practically unplayed.

 

[RallyFanatic]

I don’t have much experience with PRS amps but I did try a Fillmore 25 combo with my Silver Sky and thought it had great cleans and mild crunch. I ended up with a deluxe reverb because I wanted those type cleans. When I tested the Fillmore someone else was playing the new Mesa Mark V:25 combo the drive sounds were excellent. Guess it depends on what you want out of it.

 

[andy474x]

I’ve played all the amps on your list, and own a Custom 50. Here’s my take:

The most “different” amp on your list is the Sonzera. It has a very different sound, can be much brighter and raspier than the others on your list. It’s a little bit of an odd amp, despite being affordable I think it’s somewhat unforgiving and you have to be a really good player to get good sounds out of it. But, if you can, I’ve heard some immense blues tones from them. Actually sounds like it has more in common with the JMOD amp than anything else.

The H and Custom are very alike, I’ve played an H and own the Custom. They sound very similar to me, with the exception of more flexibility on the Custom via the presence knob and mid shift on the lead channel. The lead channels on both are smooth, fat, bold in the mids, not extremely compressed, and certainly not fizzy - personally, I wanted a little more bite from my C50 and modded it slightly, but that’s another story.

The Fillmore reminds me very much of the H/Custom, but with more of a Fender voicing on the lead channel, with a leaner midrange, perhaps more cascaded gain and compression on the lead side, but smooth on top like the H/Custom. I actually did not care for the use of the C90 (Mesa’s version of the Classic Lead 80) on the Fillmore, as it was always a little dull sounding on top and didn’t allow the amp to get the sparkly cleans and slightly sizzling gain I would’ve liked. If you like your H’s tone as-is, it may be just right for you.

Personally, if I were in your shoes, I’d be thinking most about the Fillmore, although I would probably change out the speaker. Another member here got a Fillmore head and 2x12 with Jensen Blackbird alnicos, as come in the Mesa Cali Tweed, and it sounds righteous, the V-Type would also be on the list. Anyways, the Fillmore is a superb sounding amp and different enough sounding to be worth having.

 

[RickP]

I recently purchased a California Tweed, and it’s a killer amp for Fender tones. I mention that in this thread because it uses the Jensen Blackbird that @andy474x mentioned, and I can confirm it is a surprisingly lively and pleasing speaker, and handles 100 watts. I am going to get another to try in my Deluxe Reverb as well.

I’d also like to give a PRS a try, and will likely start with an HXDA or similar.

 

[henryjurstin13]

Sonzera is very affordable & just assumed it might have some of the same DNA as my H. Fillmore is high on the list to try, especially with two cloned channels. That’s why I bought the H - the versatility to get dirty on the clean channel, and clean(ish) on the dirty channel.

I’ve watched several videos tonight on the Carr Merc V too, super pricey..... but my Slant is an incredible build.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

The Jensen Blackbird gets a lot of love everywhere. I haven't played one but have heard samples and they were really nice tones!

 

[WEDGE]

I have both a Deluxe Reverb reissue and a 25 watt Fillmore combo. Both have excellent cleans but the Fillmore is far more versatile with the switchable mid and high gain options, along with separate reverb control for each channel. Love them both but gun to my head I keep the Fillmore.

 

[henryjurstin13]

Tried a Sonzera 20 yesterday... WOWSERS it was loud!!!! Like, I wanted a half power switch/extra master/etc... some of the tiny effects loop volume controls might help tame it a bit for home use.

Clean channel was very nice, HUGE bass response - which, I really enjoyed (especially out of such a small combo).
Reverb - nice, but maybe a touch on the subtle side? Debatable...
Lead channel - TINY sweet spots for low gain. Swapping a tube in V2 instantly came to mind, in order to help tame that gain.
Seemed a little bit noisy at first (both channels), but that seemed to go away somewhat after warming up for a few minutes.

All in all, I liked a lot about this amp - but, a few of the cons were ginormous cons to me. The volume would be very hard to tame at home. And it's waaaaay more gain that I'd need/want, but this could be chanced with a swap in V2. Kinda left me wanting a 10 watt version of this amp, or at least an attenuator to use.

 

[andy474x]

Tried a Sonzera 20 yesterday... WOWSERS it was loud!!!! Like, I wanted a half power switch/extra master/etc... some of the tiny effects loop volume controls might help tame it a bit for home use.

Clean channel was very nice, HUGE bass response - which, I really enjoyed (especially out of such a small combo).
Reverb - nice, but maybe a touch on the subtle side? Debatable...
Lead channel - TINY sweet spots for low gain. Swapping a tube in V2 instantly came to mind, in order to help tame that gain.
Seemed a little bit noisy at first (both channels), but that seemed to go away somewhat after warming up for a few minutes.

All in all, I liked a lot about this amp - but, a few of the cons were ginormous cons to me. The volume would be very hard to tame at home. And it's waaaaay more gain that I'd need/want, but this could be chanced with a swap in V2. Kinda left me wanting a 10 watt version of this amp, or at least an attenuator to use.

Agree on your observations. One thing is for sure about the current import amps from PRS, they are 100% intended for gigging and full-band use, they are not bedroom amps. Which, don’t get me wrong, is great if you are a gigging musician, that an affordable amp has the juice and sounds good at stage volume. But there are better choices for home use amps. And, yes, they have a LOT of gain, that’s been one constant observation of every PRS amp I’ve played, and I’m not really sure why they do it, but the gain comes on fast and is usually maxed out in terms of “useable gain” by about noon on the dial, after that it’s just raising the noise floor but doesn’t sound or feel much different. On the Sonzera, the part of the gain range I would want to use most, and have more adjustable range within, is the first 1/4 of the dial, maybe max out around the around the current 12:00. The EQ and breakup character are blues rock all the way, but it has the gain of a metal machine, kind of disconnected in that sense.

 

[henryjurstin13]

Agree on your observations. One thing is for sure about the current import amps from PRS, they are 100% intended for gigging and full-band use, they are not bedroom amps. Which, don’t get me wrong, is great if you are a gigging musician, that an affordable amp has the juice and sounds good at stage volume. But there are better choices for home use amps. And, yes, they have a LOT of gain, that’s been one constant observation of every PRS amp I’ve played, and I’m not really sure why they do it, but the gain comes on fast and is usually maxed out in terms of “useable gain” by about noon on the dial, after that it’s just raising the noise floor but doesn’t sound or feel much different. On the Sonzera, the part of the gain range I would want to use most, and have more adjustable range within, is the first 1/4 of the dial, maybe max out around the around the current 12:00. The EQ and breakup character are blues rock all the way, but it has the gain of a metal machine, kind of disconnected in that sense.

Exactly why a toggle switch on the gain channel could be an awesome fix for this amp... vintage or modern. Vintage could be early breakup - crunchy, modern could be crunchy - the gain that is there currently. Is this an amp that could easily be modded for something like this?

 

[scott_]

I use my Sonzera 20 every day. I mostly play blues and use the clean channel with a good compressor and slight transparent overdrive pedals in front and a JHS little black box in the loop at about 75% to tame the volume because I'm at home. A little black box effects the tone of some amps, but with the black box in the effects loop at ~60%+ the Sonzera sounds the same but quieter. I also swapped the stock Celestion V30 for a low-watt Jenson alnico. If I skip church for a few weeks in a row, I may start craving some tones straight from hell, and with a switch over the gain channel, and some minor reverb and presence adjustment, the Sonzera 20 becomes a beast master. It's a very versatile amp that does most things well. My only complaints are the V30 and the reverb. I personally cannot stand V30's because without careful compression and equalization they sound "ice picky". @andy474x noted the amp is "unforgiving". I fixed that by swapping the V30 for a softer speaker. The reverb sounds good, but as @henryjurstin13 noted, the reverb is too subtle. I like subtle reverb, but I also like the ability dial it up and get bouncy. The stock reverb tank is a odd. It's made by Ruby Tubes and coded as a "mini", but it's actually 9.25" which is a standard "small" size. It's also a "medium decay". I ordered an Accutronics 8AB3C1B, which is a 9.25" long decay reverb tank with the same I/O specs as the stock tank. I'm hoping that with that tank, I can get both subtle and bouncy.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

If I skip church for a few weeks in a row, I may start craving some tones straight from hell,

Please describe these "tones straight from hell" that you speak of.

 

[scott_]

Please describe these "tones straight from hell" that you speak of.

Tones as heard on the Slayer South of Heaven album, on the Pantera Vulgar Display of Power album, and somewhere near the halfway point of most Tool songs.

 

[László]

I'm not a high gain player, so take this with a large dose, not a grain, of salt:

If you have an H, you have that covered. Get something different.

As to the Fillmore, it's a great amp for clean, medium, and reasonable gain. It's not a fire breathing high gain amp, but isn't designed to be. But I'm not a high gain player at all.

It's worth playing through one. I have one and like it. But I also have other amps I use for different purposes.

 

[WEDGE]

I had a Fillmore and it gets real dirty, but not saturated. Big difference.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Sonzera is very affordable & just assumed it might have some of the same DNA as my H. Fillmore is high on the list to try, especially with two cloned channels. That’s why I bought the H - the versatility to get dirty on the clean channel, and clean(ish) on the dirty channel.

I’ve watched several videos tonight on the Carr Merc V too, super pricey..... but my Slant is an incredible build.

Side note: Why are you moving the Monza? I’ve seen a lot of love for those amongst users. What is your take on that amp? I almost bought one a few years ago.

 

[László]

I had a Fillmore and it gets real dirty, but not saturated. Big difference.

In audio-speak,; tubes saturate, and then become noticeably distorted and the grind becomes more noticeable. However...there are so many flavors to be had that I kinda know what you mean. I think...

I would probably say that the Fillmore compresses less before the tubes start to break up, and most other Mesas compress more noticeably. We're probably referring to the same phenomenon.

 

[scott_]

I use my Sonzera 20 every day. I mostly play blues and use the clean channel with a good compressor and slight transparent overdrive pedals in front and a JHS little black box in the loop at about 75% to tame the volume because I'm at home. A little black box effects the tone of some amps, but with the black box in the effects loop at ~60%+ the Sonzera sounds the same but quieter. I also swapped the stock Celestion V30 for a low-watt Jenson alnico. If I skip church for a few weeks in a row, I may start craving some tones straight from hell, and with a switch over the gain channel, and some minor reverb and presence adjustment, the Sonzera 20 becomes a beast master. It's a very versatile amp that does most things well. My only complaints are the V30 and the reverb. I personally cannot stand V30's because without careful compression and equalization they sound "ice picky". @andy474x noted the amp is "unforgiving". I fixed that by swapping the V30 for a softer speaker. The reverb sounds good, but as @henryjurstin13 noted, the reverb is too subtle. I like subtle reverb, but I also like the ability dial it up and get bouncy. The stock reverb tank is a odd. It's made by Ruby Tubes and coded as a "mini", but it's actually 9.25" which is a standard "small" size. It's also a "medium decay". I ordered an Accutronics 8AB3C1B, which is a 9.25" long decay reverb tank with the same I/O specs as the stock tank. I'm hoping that with that tank, I can get both subtle and bouncy.

I installed the Accutronics 8AB3C1B, Long Decay, 3-Spring reverb tank and confirmed that it's a great drop-in replacement for the OEM Ruby Tubes (RRVS3AB2C1B). As expected, the reverb is less subtle with the with the Accutronics 8AB3C1B. I was concerned that it may go too far the other way and sound like a slinky toy, but that's not the case at all. It sounds sweet, just a little more lively than the stock reverb. I was also concerned that the Ruby Tubes size code "3" indicated an unusual size or mounting requirement. Also not the case, Ruby Tubes RRVS3AB2C1B and Accutronics 8AB3C1B are exactly the same size (9.25 as the size code "8" in the Accutronics indicates). The Accutronics fits the Sonzera 20 perfectly. Since all other specs aside from the med and long decay indicators are the same, it sounds great, no noise, just a little extra reverb. Some say that the PRS Sonzera 20 sounds similar to a Fender Deluxe Reverb. My Sonzera 10 with a Jensen P12Q and Accutronics 8AB3C1B, now sounds almost identical to a Fender Deluxe Reverb.
**P.S. red and white rca jacks are backwards on the PRS amp, so connect the red-white and white-red when installing an Accutronics 8AB3C1B.

 

[László]

I installed the Accutronics 8AB3C1B, Long Decay, 3-Spring reverb tank and confirmed that it's a great drop-in replacement for the OEM Ruby Tubes (RRVS3AB2C1B). As expected, the reverb is less subtle with the with the Accutronics 8AB3C1B. I was concerned that it may go too far the other way and sound like a slinky toy, but that's not the case at all. It sounds sweet, just a little more lively than the stock reverb. I was also concerned that the Ruby Tubes size code "3" indicated an unusual size or mounting requirement. Also not the case, Ruby Tubes RRVS3AB2C1B and Accutronics 8AB3C1B are exactly the same size (9.25 as the size code "8" in the Accutronics indicates). The Accutronics fits the Sonzera 20 perfectly. Since all other specs aside from the med and long decay indicators are the same, it sounds great, no noise, just a little extra reverb. Some say that the PRS Sonzera 20 sounds similar to a Fender Deluxe Reverb. My Sonzera 10 with a Jensen P12Q and Accutronics 8AB3C1B, now sounds almost identical to a Fender Deluxe Reverb.

I think it's pretty cool that you did this experimenting. You knew what you wanted, and went for it.