Are build you own PRS kits legal?

Wakester said:
A co worker of mine bought one from a common web vendor that sounds like alley Baba O' Riley. He got totally screwed. PR Body with a Gibby Neck. He said the paint job and top coat finish were horrible. Pickups were noisy, frets not even close, and the neck/body joint was full of filler. The list will probably go on. Definitely not worth the time or aggravation he'll have to put into it to make it playable.
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We should snap them all up and sell the to the Silver Sky haters at TGP! :p
 
Jmartin said:
But if it's a DIY Prs kit, you have to know that it's a fake. Right??
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Just for the record, I'm not interested in purchasing this kit. I stumbled upon a kit with the bird inlays. Knowing it was not PRS, it seemed like blatant theft of a proprietary design.
 
alantig said:
If you hang around here, sure. But Martin sells DIY kits, so it's not a great leap to think if one company does it, another might.
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I had no idea Martin sells DIY kits. Go figure. Learn something new everyday.
 
Wakester said:
No, I'm saying we need to burn their factories to the ground and put up WalMart full of cheap foreign made junk. Oh, wait, I may have to rethink that last part..
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Yeah ix-nay on the urn-ba all-ya. We dont want Clarice Starling to suddenly get an interest in the PRS forum. Not that we can’t do it, we just can’t talk about it. o_O
 
There’s a guy in the UK (China guitar sceptic) that is trying to educate people in this sort of thing.

He’s actually encouraged an overseas instrument factory to make their own branded guitars, rather than fakes.

There are always going to be people that want a branded product that doesn’t cost the normal price. Hence the “fake” market place. It’s about educating people in the work that goes into an instrument.

We’ve probably all seen “unboxing” videos of guitars that are copies and annoyingly they all seem to have been watched 100’s of 1000’s of times! When you’ve got videos of some very talented musician who only has a few hundred views!

It shows what “gear hounds” most people are!

What isn’t fair, is the young lad/lass who, in good faith, buys one on these kits, thinking that they can just glue a neck in and do a bit of home finishing (oil/lacquer) and string it up, without a thought to neck angle, alignment etc. Without these two key elements of the build, the guitar is effectively unplayable!
 
Alnus Rubra said:
There’s a guy in the UK (China guitar sceptic) that is trying to educate people in this sort of thing.

He’s actually encouraged an overseas instrument factory to make their own branded guitars, rather than fakes.

There are always going to be people that want a branded product that doesn’t cost the normal price. Hence the “fake” market place. It’s about educating people in the work that goes into an instrument.

We’ve probably all seen “unboxing” videos of guitars that are copies and annoyingly they all seem to have been watched 100’s of 1000’s of times! When you’ve got videos of some very talented musician who only has a few hundred views!

It shows what “gear hounds” most people are!

What isn’t fair, is the young lad/lass who, in good faith, buys one on these kits, thinking that they can just glue a neck in and do a bit of home finishing (oil/lacquer) and string it up, without a thought to neck angle, alignment etc. Without these two key elements of the build, the guitar is effectively unplayable!
Click to expand...

I was going to bring this guy up. He is very informative and interesting to watch. Although to his advantage, he always custom orders his guitars, so he generally gets what he asks for. The average buyer will not be as fortunate, and get whatever comes off the line, regardless of quality.
 
Morally it’s wrong for a maker to produce a forgery!

A kit guitar in the style of a certain make or model is a difficult subject. It’s not being produced to be a copy, probably no logo etc.
It allows someone with a certain level of ability to build an instrument for themselves.

It’s being creative, which is good and so long as it’s not sold to imitate the original, it’s not a bad thing.

Does it hurt guitar sales?

Would the person doing this necessarily have gone out and bought another “off the shelf” guitar (who knows)?
 
Fakes, especially those intended to con buyers, is always going to be wrong.

chinaguitarsceptic is doing some good work.
I did see (cant recall the make) last year on a the back of a guitar headstock 'Proudly made in PR China'. That's what I want to see on a Chinese guitar. Too often the country of origin is absent on the instrument, so we all assume its Chinese and expect the worst.

China needs a company such as Korea's Peerless to demonstrate commitment to quality and to change our preconceptions. And yes, it needs to use its own name of course.
 
I'll start with this. Forgery in the name of profit or gain in anyway shape or form is completely detestable and indefensible. However here's my thoughts on building one of these kits for whatever they're worth.

Some day I want to build my own guitar. I'm constantly modding guitars as it is. I've just now gotten into "remodeling" them. I've refinished an old strat copy that was my first guitar, and now have completely refinished a PRS SE EG. It's not done, but when it is I'll post pics. I don't plan to sell it, and if I ever do, I will make it absolutely clear that the work was done by me and not PRS/PTC. I do plan on putting the PRS SE logo back on the headstock along with the serial number. Those things belong to that guitar. Much like my Ford Mustang I recently owned. I did some work to it. Nothing extravagant, but it was definitely not stock when I sold it. However it was still a Ford and the VIN was still the same.

So what does this have to do with a guitar kit? I work at a Harley shop. I've built several "customs". They're based on Harley Davidson motorcycles. You could/can use many stock parts from HD on these motorcycles. Although most we built were obviously far from a true HD, we had a few customers that wanted what looked like a stock bike but with a big inch motor. So we've done those also. Their titles did NOT say HD nor were their VINs an HD VIN. I'm not a lawyer and don't know how the bird inlays work. I have no doubt putting PRS or their logo on a kit guitar is illegal. It's also my understanding that the headstock shape is the part that can be trademarked. So them using the PRS headstock is probably very illegal also.

I say that to say, I've almost purchased one of those kits. If/when I do buy and build one, I would never attempt in anyway to pass it off as a real PRS. However I do think the bird inlays are the best looking inlay on any guitar out there. So I want one that has those, even if they are obviously PRS. IMO it would be more like an homage than trying to rip them off. There's a good chance I would modify the headstock to make it more symetrical and "M" shaped. My name s Matt so I even have an idea or two about using a veneer to make the M shape more obvious. And my biggest reason for doing this, would be that I want a 305 style guitar with a figured maple top. I haven't found too many, and the ones I have found are out of my price range. So I'm also not just copying one of the more common model but recreating a tribute to one that is no longer made. And it would be something to check off my bucket list. Make my own guitar. The biggest thing holding me back is making sure they correctly route the body for the pickups. I've considered asking them just to do the neck pocket and control cavity. But then I would have to do those things and get them right. It's mostly a matter of who I trust more to get them correct. Haha. Although even after building one of these, the next step would be to make one from just planks of wood. Much like Paul did with his first guitars. Which I believe are quite similar to another big guitar makers guitars.

All that said who knew Martin made kits??!?!?!? That's awesome. Just looked them up and they're even reasonably priced IMO. If PRS would sell me a kit I would be all over it. I mean all over it. Like here's my credit card number 1234123412341234 and my address is ......

Anyway if that could somehow happen, man would that be awesome!!! Maybe change the birds and the headstock shape so people couldn't try to pass it off as genuine. At least not without so much work it wouldn't be worth doing. Maybe swap the location of a couple of birds and use the reverse headstock of the silver sky but keep the symmetrical tuner location. Seriously is there a phone number or something I can call to talk someone into this??????

p.s. once I found out that employees get guitars after certain years of service, I considered moving to Maryland from Oklahoma. However I have a family and that won't happen. At least not until my youngest is out of the house. He turns 2 this July, so it will be a while. But if I can make the move happen, get a job there, and then be able to get my employee guitar, the one caveat would be, if possible, I would want to do as much work on it as possible myself. Obviously let the CNC's do their part. But let me sand and shape and glue together as much as possible. I would even want to do the stain, but would probably let the top coat be done by those who know what they're doing. I struggle with spray paint.

Off I go to what for an email or PM about how I can make this guitar kit thing a reality. Seriously I want this to happen. That would be a great way to fight the imposters. Why buy a cheap kit from china, when for 50% more you can buy a kit made on the same machines as a real PRS. They could even come from the SE plant IMO. And would probably be the best idea. Okay I digress.
 
Matte82 said:
I'll start with this. Forgery in the name of profit or gain in anyway shape or form is completely detestable and indefensible. However here's my thoughts on building one of these kits for whatever they're worth.

Some day I want to build my own guitar. I'm constantly modding guitars as it is. I've just now gotten into "remodeling" them. I've refinished an old strat copy that was my first guitar, and now have completely refinished a PRS SE EG. It's not done, but when it is I'll post pics. I don't plan to sell it, and if I ever do, I will make it absolutely clear that the work was done by me and not PRS/PTC. I do plan on putting the PRS SE logo back on the headstock along with the serial number. Those things belong to that guitar. Much like my Ford Mustang I recently owned. I did some work to it. Nothing extravagant, but it was definitely not stock when I sold it. However it was still a Ford and the VIN was still the same.

So what does this have to do with a guitar kit? I work at a Harley shop. I've built several "customs". They're based on Harley Davidson motorcycles. You could/can use many stock parts from HD on these motorcycles. Although most we built were obviously far from a true HD, we had a few customers that wanted what looked like a stock bike but with a big inch motor. So we've done those also. Their titles did NOT say HD nor were their VINs an HD VIN. I'm not a lawyer and don't know how the bird inlays work. I have no doubt putting PRS or their logo on a kit guitar is illegal. It's also my understanding that the headstock shape is the part that can be trademarked. So them using the PRS headstock is probably very illegal also.

I say that to say, I've almost purchased one of those kits. If/when I do buy and build one, I would never attempt in anyway to pass it off as a real PRS. However I do think the bird inlays are the best looking inlay on any guitar out there. So I want one that has those, even if they are obviously PRS. IMO it would be more like an homage than trying to rip them off. There's a good chance I would modify the headstock to make it more symetrical and "M" shaped. My name s Matt so I even have an idea or two about using a veneer to make the M shape more obvious. And my biggest reason for doing this, would be that I want a 305 style guitar with a figured maple top. I haven't found too many, and the ones I have found are out of my price range. So I'm also not just copying one of the more common model but recreating a tribute to one that is no longer made. And it would be something to check off my bucket list. Make my own guitar. The biggest thing holding me back is making sure they correctly route the body for the pickups. I've considered asking them just to do the neck pocket and control cavity. But then I would have to do those things and get them right. It's mostly a matter of who I trust more to get them correct. Haha. Although even after building one of these, the next step would be to make one from just planks of wood. Much like Paul did with his first guitars. Which I believe are quite similar to another big guitar makers guitars.

All that said who knew Martin made kits??!?!?!? That's awesome. Just looked them up and they're even reasonably priced IMO. If PRS would sell me a kit I would be all over it. I mean all over it. Like here's my credit card number 1234123412341234 and my address is ......

Anyway if that could somehow happen, man would that be awesome!!! Maybe change the birds and the headstock shape so people couldn't try to pass it off as genuine. At least not without so much work it wouldn't be worth doing. Maybe swap the location of a couple of birds and use the reverse headstock of the silver sky but keep the symmetrical tuner location. Seriously is there a phone number or something I can call to talk someone into this??????

p.s. once I found out that employees get guitars after certain years of service, I considered moving to Maryland from Oklahoma. However I have a family and that won't happen. At least not until my youngest is out of the house. He turns 2 this July, so it will be a while. But if I can make the move happen, get a job there, and then be able to get my employee guitar, the one caveat would be, if possible, I would want to do as much work on it as possible myself. Obviously let the CNC's do their part. But let me sand and shape and glue together as much as possible. I would even want to do the stain, but would probably let the top coat be done by those who know what they're doing. I struggle with spray paint.

Off I go to what for an email or PM about how I can make this guitar kit thing a reality. Seriously I want this to happen. That would be a great way to fight the imposters. Why buy a cheap kit from china, when for 50% more you can buy a kit made on the same machines as a real PRS. They could even come from the SE plant IMO. And would probably be the best idea. Okay I digress.
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You make some decent points, but I know I am far better at working on My Ford Mustang, than building and finishing wood projects. (I nearly failed wood shop once) I wouldn't mind helping build a few, I could either do the electronic side or final set up but woodworking is definitely out.
 
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