Are 58/15 "S" pickups considered high-output?

[SinSir]

Here's an update since I know everyone was falling off the front of their seats waiting for it I moved the pickups down (way down; the neck pup is just barely above the pickup surround) and now it sounds waaaaay better! The neck pickup in particular is very clear and lovely sounding.

Excellent! That's where it should be to my ear as well

 

[IRG]

I have a CE 24 with the 85/15 pickups and a S2 Custom 24 with the 85/15 S pickups, very little difference to me, the CE being a bit brighter more likely to the maple neck, than the difference in the pickups. Great pickups for me.

I’d like to know how the TCI S pickups compare, spec wise and compared to the other offerings. They are in my SE Santana Singlecut. Seem to have more midrange than the 85/15 and maybe more output?

 

[SinSir]

I have a CE 24 with the 85/15 pickups and a S2 Custom 24 with the 85/15 S pickups, very little difference to me, the CE being a bit brighter more likely to the maple neck, than the difference in the pickups. Great pickups for me.

I’d like to know how the TCI S pickups compare, spec wise and compared to the other offerings. They are in my SE Santana Singlecut. Seem to have more midrange than the 85/15 and maybe more output?

PRS not showing the specs is beyond annoying. It seems like something they'd supply instead of treating them like a family recipe. And the new thing of just saying TCI is even worse.

 

[chummybum]

Re: not showing specs for pickups, I just saw this thread on TGP about this guy's amazing PRS collection:

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/a-prs-obsession.1687962/

In it he says something I've also heard elsewhere: PRS is in the business of selling new guitars, not new pickups. If that's true, then at least it kinda-sorta explains why they don't spend a bunch of time talking individually about the pickups...

 

[SinSir]

Re: not showing specs for pickups, I just saw this thread on TGP about this guy's amazing PRS collection:

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/a-prs-obsession.1687962/

In it he says something I've also heard elsewhere: PRS is in the business of selling new guitars, not new pickups. If that's true, then at least it kinda-sorta explains why they don't spend a bunch of time talking individually about the pickups...

I've beard that before too. The thing is they do sell pickups, guitars, and have a service center. I get the main model is selling guitars, but I'd like to know pickup specs when shopping online. At least I'm lucky to have multiple shops near me that sell PRS to demo about everything they offer past and present but a lot of the country or world isn't so fortunate. Even the charts where they don't give full specs but show a chart for bass, treble, and output would be helpful.

 

[IRG]

I've beard that before too. The thing is they do sell pickups, guitars, and have a service center. I get the main model is selling guitars, but I'd like to know pickup specs when shopping online. At least I'm lucky to have multiple shops near me that sell PRS to demo about everything they offer past and present but a lot of the country or world isn't so fortunate. Even the charts where they don't give full specs but show a chart for bass, treble, and output would be helpful.

Agree, if you sell pickups separate from your guitars, you are in the pickup business. It might not be your main focus for sure, same is true of Gibson and Fender as well. But since the PRS pickup offerings over the last few years have gotten quite good, it seems like this is a growth area for them, even if it is a small % of their business.

I'd still like to know more about the TCI S pickups I have. Are they created specifically for this Santana model, or are these pickups made to fit any of their SE lineup? Because I don't see many other models (any?) with them in it.

 

[Mozzi]

I really don't think it matters too much about the 'specs' of the Pickup. Most only give you an 'output' that doesn't tell you how it will sound in your guitar. Its much more important to actually listen to the instrument, play around with the settings of your gear to find the sound you want. Does it matter if the high end is a 'bit' bright when you can EQ that down with the Amp?

Of course, understanding what the Pickup specs are helps IF you intend to change them. If you know they are lacking some mids that you can't EQ in fot example, then looking for alternatives with more mid presence makes sense. You can however have 2 Pickups that have identical output, using exactly the same wire, magnets etc and sound very different because of the pattern of the winds so it doesn't really tell you how it will sound....

To me, output tends to matter a bit more for 'cleans' into a Valve amp - High Output maybe not giving you those crystal cleans you want without the amp breaking up. At least with 'lower' output Pickups, you can boost them to break up like a high output pickup does if that's what you want.

I'd still like to know more about the TCI S pickups I have. Are they created specifically for this Santana model, or are these pickups made to fit any of their SE lineup? Because I don't see many other models (any?) with them in it.

They were created for the SE Paul's Guitar. Santana heard them and wanted them in his SE Singlecut - without the Coil splitting option - and now they are in the SE Custom 24-08 too. I don't think they are in other models (yet)

 

[IRG]

I think the "type" of pickup does matter. I like how Seymour Duncan breaks theirs down into PAF/historical output, medium gain and high gain options, lists the type of construction/magnet type, what the output measures for bridge/neck. You're right in that doesn't tell you what it is going to sound like, exactly, because of the variety of winds, etc. But it does give you a ballpark idea. Plus they show you where the emphasis is on bass/mids/treble. I know what a SD JB in the bridge basically is going to sound like because of it's description and specs, but they might have 4-5 other similar type of pickups. But at least I know I'm not getting a PAF, and that is helpful in my decision.

I remember now that the TCI S were for the Paul's guitar, and that Santana wanted them in this Singlecut too, thanks for jogging my memory. I'd still be curious to know a bit more. It's too bad the Santana model I have didn't use the split coil option, I love the sound of the neck pickup in single pickup mode, or even the middle position with both in single mode. Makes the guitar a lot more versatile imo.

 

[Ovibos]

You don't think there has been some audio enhancements done in the PRS demo videos ?!

Maybe?

But the amp, speaker, mic placement, and recording method are going to be totally different from what you have (add in the YouTube compression) - which is why gear demo videos aren’t very useful. I prefer reviews where someone tells me how it sounds to them in the room.

 

[chummybum]

the amp, speaker, mic placement, and recording method

This is actually part of the thinking for why I like to keep my tube amp at the same settings for every guitar, as I mentioned in my original post It's a way for me to kinda benchmark the sound of each guitar relative to the others, before I start mucking around in Helix.

 

[gavinashun]

I will say I have been having exactly the same question about my 58/15 MT pickups. These are the stock in the PRS Special 22 Semi-Hollow models (MT = multi-tap). I can't say I've found the specific specs of the MT vs. the chart that was already posted that just lists them as "58/15."

But I am currently not super happy with the pickups as I find them too high output for my taste, and perhaps too much upper mids. I have been thinking about replacing them (possibly ThroBak SLE-101s) for that reason.

But sounds like a good first step would be to lower the height.

 

[zerolight]

Glad you got it sorted. A good starting guide for pickup heights is the PRS setup guide on their site.

Humbucker/Soapbar Pickup Height Specifications
With the high and low E strings depressed at the last fret. Measurement is taken from the bottom of the string, to the top of the pickup bobbin or cover. 5/64” on the treble side of both pickups Approximately 3/32” on the bass side of both pickups. You may season to taste if you wish.​

 

[zerolight]

I have demoed the 58/15s multiple times and do like those. I tried the 58/15 once and didn't care for them at all. I don't recall if they were LT or not. Its funny when I played the 58/15 I was nervous to because I loved the look of the guitar but was in the market for a less expensive guitar at the time. I've never been so relieved to dislike a guitars sound.

There’s no guarantee it was the pickups you didn’t like rather than the guitar. I’ve played a Custom 24 that sounded fat and amazing and another in a different colour in the same store that sounded bright and thin. Setup was identical, as was the model. Sometimes it’s just the woods in a particular guitar that aren’t as good. But it could have been a killer guitar with horrible pickups. Impossible to say unless you play a few more with those pickups.

 

[SinSir]

This is actually part of the thinking for why I like to keep my tube amp at the same settings for every guitar, as I mentioned in my original post It's a way for me to kinda benchmark the sound of each guitar relative to the others, before I start mucking around in Helix.

I'll admit I don't like to jack with my amp setting either. I have it dialed in where I think it sounds best as a base line. W

There’s no guarantee it was the pickups you didn’t like rather than the guitar. I’ve played a Custom 24 that sounded fat and amazing and another in a different colour in the same store that sounded bright and thin. Setup was identical, as was the model. Sometimes it’s just the woods in a particular guitar that aren’t as good. But it could have been a killer guitar with horrible pickups. Impossible to say unless you play a few more with those pickups.

Possible, I was surprised as I have yet to find a Core 24 or a set of US 85/15 in any guitar I disliked but that one was a no go. I always use the same one or two amps I know well to demo. This particular time it was my favorite amp in a private room. It could have been the guitar, but I lean towards the convers on 58/15 cuts out something my ears typically like from 85/15. Either way I haven't wrote off the pickups at all until I try more but that was my single experience with the 58/15.

In your scenario and mine something that could be a factor in both is the pickup height more than the guitars or pickups too. It's something I often overlook to glance at in the store when just checking out guitars.

 

[zerolight]

In your scenario and mine something that could be a factor in both is the pickup height more than the guitars or pickups too. It's something I often overlook to glance at in the store when just checking out guitars.

Could be. I did have both CU24s home with me too though to use in my own gear for the weekend. The second one replaced the first which was killer but had a dead spot that I couldn’t live with. The second one just wasn’t for me - too bright. I did have time to play with the setup and use it through my own rig.

I’ve only had a short time with the 58/15 on my Santana. It’s packed away for now. They sounded good. I may swap them anyway as I fancy some zebras, but I think the pickups tone won’t be the reason.

 

[SinSir]

I'll admit I don't like to jack with my amp setting either. I have it dialed in where I think it sounds best as a base line.

This reply came from one I was working on earlier. Didn't know it posted. I tried to edit it but get the server error.

Anyhow.. That's why I have pedals and guitar controls. Lately I've been addicted to shaping my sound through the effects loop with the EQ pedal and a boost. Between the boards and the controls on the guitars it's so much easier to the sound I want jumping from a PRS to Strat or whatever vs the amp every time, click click, rotate, slide and in business.

 

[Serious Poo]

Weird, all of the 85/15 and 58/15 pickups seem to have the same resistance values... Is this an error?

Also, FWIW I have 58/15 LT's in one of a new guitar I got a few days ago, and to my ears they sound just ridiculously good through modern high gain amps. I'll post more in a NGD thread over the weekend. So far, I'm digging 'em.

 

[The Guitar Hunter]

I will say I have been having exactly the same question about my 58/15 MT pickups. These are the stock in the PRS Special 22 Semi-Hollow models (MT = multi-tap). I can't say I've found the specific specs of the MT vs. the chart that was already posted that just lists them as "58/15."

But I am currently not super happy with the pickups as I find them too high output for my taste, and perhaps too much upper mids. I have been thinking about replacing them (possibly ThroBak SLE-101s) for that reason.

But sounds like a good first step would be to lower the height.

If you're considering ThroBaks, also take a look at Tyson Tone. I have those in my R9 and they are fantastic for that PAF thing

 

[SinSir]

Weird, all of the 85/15 and 58/15 pickups seem to have the same resistance values... Is this an error?

Also, FWIW I have 58/15 LT's in one of a new guitar I got a few days ago, and to my ears they sound just ridiculously good through modern high gain amps. I'll post more in a NGD thread over the weekend. So far, I'm digging 'em.

85/15 and 58/15 are the same besides covered and uncovered

 

[Serious Poo]

85/15 and 58/15 are the same besides covered and uncovered

Even the LT’s? That’s what struck me that something isn’t quite right with those numbers...