Alike Yet So Different...

[Moondog Wily]

… blindfold yourself and have a rep put 4 identical models in front of you.

In 2020 I was looking for a nice acoustic ($5k range). I only have one guitar store within many miles, and they carry only Taylors in that price range. I went in and told the owner I wanted to play every US made Taylor he had in stock. They ranged in price from $3k to $9k. I put on a blind fold and tried about a dozen guitars. I did not like a single one of them tone wise. I had blind folded myself so that I would not fall in love with the woods and let it influence my perception. Ended up buying a Martin J-40 online and it sounded exactly like what I wanted to hear.

BTW Ed Gardella, love your avatar. If you have not seen it, Chanan Hanspal did a great interview with Andy Partridge recently. It is 4 parts and about 3 hours in total, but some great insight on XTC songs and the development thereof. Here is a link to part 1

 

[Ed Gardella]

In 2020 I was looking for a nice acoustic ($5k range). I only have one guitar store within many miles, and they carry only Taylors in that price range. I went in and told the owner I wanted to play every US made Taylor he had in stock. They ranged in price from $3k to $9k. I put on a blind fold and tried about a dozen guitars. I did not like a single one of them tone wise. I had blind folded myself so that I would not fall in love with the woods and let it influence my perception. Ended up buying a Martin J-40 online and it sounded exactly like what I wanted to hear.

BTW Ed Gardella, love your avatar. If you have not seen it, Chanan Hanspal did a great interview with Andy Partridge recently. It is 4 parts and about 3 hours in total, but some great insight on XTC songs and the development thereof. Here is a link to part 1

Yup .. I’m a big XTC fan and was fortunate enough to see them in 1982 on the Black Sea tour. Thanks for sharing.

 

[László]

In 2020 I was looking for a nice acoustic ($5k range). I only have one guitar store within many miles, and they carry only Taylors in that price range. I went in and told the owner I wanted to play every US made Taylor he had in stock. They ranged in price from $3k to $9k. I put on a blind fold and tried about a dozen guitars. I did not like a single one of them tone wise. I had blind folded myself so that I would not fall in love with the woods and let it influence my perception. Ended up buying a Martin J-40 online and it sounded exactly like what I wanted to hear.

You could have just as easily disliked all the Taylors without the blindfold. It didn't serve much of a purpose.

 

[Moondog Wily]

You could have just as easily disliked all the Taylors without the blindfold. It didn't serve much of a purpose.

What it served was me not falling in love with the wood/aesthetics of any one guitar! I could easily have ignored things I did not like just because it looked so damn good (yes, I love beautiful things and visuals in humans as you know is our primary sensory input unlike the rest of the animal kingdom), my mind would try and make excuses to forgive the shortcomings I heard or felt. So I feel it did serve a purpose FOR ME, YMMV!

 

[László]

What it served was me not falling in love with the wood/aesthetics of any one guitar! I could easily have ignored things I did not like just because it looked so damn good (yes, I love beautiful things and visuals in humans as you know is our primary sensory input unlike the rest of the animal kingdom), my mind would try and make excuses to forgive the shortcomings I heard or felt. So I feel it did serve a purpose FOR ME, YMMV!

Hmmm. I was a convinced Martin player for a long time, and had some nice ones. I still love the tone of Martins, and prefer the tone over Taylors.

However, for a few years Taylors appealed to me - doing a session with clients present with a very easy-to-play guitar gave me extra confidence.

I bought nice ones, but ease of play was my main motivation. So my purpose was a little different.

For the material that I was doing for clients at the time, the mixes were pretty dense and all I needed was the top end sparkle and cut that Taylors were very good at. After a while the work I was doing changed in style a bit, and I switched to Collings, and eventually to PRS' USA models in 2011.

But no blindfolds. I guess I'm an ear person more than an eyeball person. Whatever works for you, works. I'm just a little surprised by the blindfold thing, since you wound up buying a Martin online, where I would think you didn't have a blindfold!

 

[Rod/]

I can't help noticing that a dog will hump just about anything. Other dogs, anyone's leg, a tree, whatever.

There must be a connection.

Woof.

Woof Woof

 

[Moondog Wily]

Hmmm. I was a convinced Martin player for a long time, and had some nice ones. I still love the tone of Martins, and prefer the tone over Taylors.

However, for a few years Taylors appealed to me - doing a session with clients present with a very easy-to-play guitar gave me extra confidence.

I bought nice ones, but ease of play was my main motivation. So my purpose was a little different.

For the material that I was doing for clients at the time, the mixes were pretty dense and all I needed was the top end sparkle and cut that Taylors were very good at. After a while the work I was doing changed in style a bit, and I switched to Collings, and eventually to PRS' USA models in 2011.

But no blindfolds. I guess I'm an ear person more than an eyeball person. Whatever works for you, works. I'm just a little surprised by the blindfold thing, since you wound up buying a Martin online, where I would think you didn't have a blindfold!

I was actually blindfolded in some senses (could not see anything but pix, could not feel the guitar, etc.), and deaf in that purchase. But buying a Martin 40 series is like buying a PRS core IMO, so I was not too worried about whether or not I would like what I got ;~)) Thanks for the feedback, looking forward to trying a Collings and a PRS PS Angelus/Tonare someday (did not like the SE's I played in Aug '22, tone or feel)! Would not buy those without playing though as I don't have the experience like I do with Martin.

 

[Rod/]

I was actually blindfolded in some senses (could not see anything but pix, could not feel the guitar, etc.), and deaf in that purchase. But buying a Martin 40 series is like buying a PRS core IMO, so I was not too worried about whether or not I would like what I got ;~)) Thanks for the feedback, looking forward to trying a Collings and a PRS PS Angelus/Tonare someday (did not like the SE's I played in Aug '22, tone or feel)! Would not buy those without playing though as I don't have the experience like I do with Martin.

My experience with acoustics is that I can trust Martin, Bourgeois and Eastman to deliver the tones I want very consistently… Gibson & Taylor, not so much… (I’m being kind). Martin’s J40 is a great guitar!

 

[László]

I was actually blindfolded in some senses (could not see anything but pix, could not feel the guitar, etc.), and deaf in that purchase. But buying a Martin 40 series is like buying a PRS core IMO, so I was not too worried about whether or not I would like what I got ;~)) Thanks for the feedback, looking forward to trying a Collings and a PRS PS Angelus/Tonare someday (did not like the SE's I played in Aug '22, tone or feel)! Would not buy those without playing though as I don't have the experience like I do with Martin.

The Collings guitars are excellent. They're different from Martins, as you'd expect, but equally good. I loved the two SJs I had.

Clearly one shouldn't expect as much from an SE acoustic as one would expect from a $4000-5000 acoustic like the J40, which is a fantastic guitar anyone who appreciates the Martin sound ought to be thrilled to own.

The Tonare PS is roughly the size of an SJ, but with tone in the same league as the far more expensive Olson I recently played - though it's also different, as one might expect. Mine's a cannon.

Preference for one or the other would be entirely subjective. You heard a recording of the one I have, and I think you commented on it. It's 10 years old now, has aged beautifully, and is a joy to work with.

Caveat: Opinions of these guitars will naturally vary from player to player.

 

[Lewguitar]

The Collings guitars are excellent. They're different from Martins, as you'd expect, but equally good. I loved the two SJs I had.

Clearly one shouldn't expect as much from an SE acoustic as one would expect from a $4000-5000 acoustic like the J40, which is a fantastic guitar anyone who appreciates the Martin sound ought to be thrilled to own.

The Tonare PS is roughly the size of an SJ, but with tone in the same league as the far more expensive Olson I recently played - though it's also different, as one might expect. Mine's a cannon.

Preference for one or the other would be entirely subjective. You heard a recording of the one I have, and I think you commented on it. It's 10 years old now, has aged beautifully, and is a joy to work with.

Caveat: Opinions of these guitars will naturally vary from player to player.

I've never played a USA made PRS acoustic. Just don't see them around here. The SE's impressed me tho.

Best sounding Martin I ever had was my OM28 and a D-35. Three piece back. But the D35 belonged to a friend who loaned it to me to sell it for her, and boy did I have a hard time not buying it myself.

The funny thing is, she preferred her Seagull S6. Which is a really nice, inexpensive solid cedar top guitar with laminated cherry back and sides. But they do sound good. When she passed her husband gave me that Seagull and it's my favorite acoustic for slide. I put a Sunrise soundhole pickup in it.

I had been playing the Martin OM28 but got infatuated with a Collings OM. The Collings was gorgeous and very loud. Sold my Martin and bought it, but ultimately it was too bright and forward for me. Had kind of a deep, loud, crisp sound that was super impressive at first but which I got tired of. Shouldn't have sold the Martin but they're both gone now.

I played Taylors for a while. Had a 512, 814C, and a Brazilian 710B and a Brazilian 810B. The 810B is the guitar on the acoustic recordings you heard of me Les. Killer tone but a dreadnaught is too big for me now. Hurts my shoulder and I've already had shoulder surgery.

But then I discovered the new Breedloves made in Oregon. Everything about them is more comfortable for me. And I love the tone.

We had a friend over for dinner and I played my Breedlove Concerto for her. She said it sounded like a Matisse painting.

 

[László]

Best sounding Martin I ever had was my OM28 and a D-35. Three piece back. But the D35 belonged to a friend who loaned it to me to sell it for her, and boy did I have a hard time not buying it myself.

I've always liked the D-35. My college best friend had one that sounded really nice, and I played it a lot. My favorite Martin was an M-38. It was a very lovely sounding guitar, and trimmed out with 45 series inlays.

I traded it in for my first synthesizer. That was stupid. I don't have that any more, either!

I had been playing the Martin OM28 but got infatuated with a Collings OM. The Collings was gorgeous and very loud. Sold my Martin and bought it, but ultimately it was too bright and forward for me. Had kind of a deep, loud, crisp sound that was super impressive at first but which I got tired of. Shouldn't have sold the Martin but they're both gone now.

I liked the forward tones of the Collings guitars I had. Made them cut nicely in a mix.

I played Taylors for a while. Had a 512, 814C, and a Brazilian 710B and a Brazilian 810B. The 810B is the guitar on the acoustic recordings you heard of me Les. Killer tone but a dreadnaught is too big for me now. Hurts my shoulder and I've already had shoulder surgery.

The deeper body styles are a bit of a stretch at this point for me too, but I love the way they sound. I suffer for my art!

But then I discovered the new Breedloves made in Oregon. Everything about them is more comfortable for me. And I love the tone.

It's awfully hard to find an acoustic that lights it up like the PS Tonare.

I have played a few US Breedlove guitars, but I'm too spoiled by the Tonare to be objective about anything else.

 

[DreamTheaterRules]

I put on a blind fold and tried about a dozen guitars. I did not like a single one of them tone wise. I had blind folded myself so that I would not fall in love with the woods and let it influence my perception. Ended up buying a Martin J-40 online and it sounded exactly like what I wanted to hear.

Did you have someone else play the guitars while you listened?

 

[DreamTheaterRules]

That was not a joke. It took me a minute to figure out how you thought it could have been. now I get it. But that’s not what I meant. I always want feel and playability first, but if I’m serious above an acoustic, I have someone else play it so that I can really hear what it sounds like. Think about it, the playing position is one of the worst spots to hear the real tone of a good acoustic. Even if you lean out over the front, you barely get in the “tone zone.”

 

[Moondog Wily]

That was not a joke. It took me a minute to figure out how you thought it could have been. now I get it. But that’s not what I meant. I always want feel and playability first, but if I’m serious above an acoustic, I have someone else play it so that I can really hear what it sounds like. Think about it, the playing position is one of the worst spots to hear the real tone of a good acoustic. Even if you lean out over the front, you barely get in the “tone zone.”

I thought you may have been serious, but I went with the ha ha! I get what you are saying. And no I did not have anyone else play them for me while blindfolded or otherwise. I am the one who is generally listening to it anyway, so how it sounds to me when I am playing it is what counts most for me. I played a McManus in 2022 in Vegas and it had the sound hole pointing up at player, so I definitely get what you are saying, had a totally different sound field for me than any other acoustic I ever played due to that (and of course other factors, but that really stood out to me).

 

[DreamTheaterRules]

I thought you may have been serious, but I went with the ha ha! I get what you are saying. And no I did not have anyone else play them for me while blindfolded or otherwise. I am the one who is generally listening to it anyway, so how it sounds to me when I am playing it is what counts most for me. I played a McManus in 2022 in Vegas and it had the sound hole pointing up at player, so I definitely get what you are saying, had a totally different sound field for me than any other acoustic I ever played due to that (and of course other factors, but that really stood out to me).

Yes, I was serious. This time. Don't get used to it.

I've always felt that auditioning the tone of an acoustic form the playing position was like auditioning a stereo speaker for purchase, by standing behind the speaker. And yes, I get that someone else will not sound exactly the same as you do while playing it, but once I'm in the "I may want this" mode, I always get someone else to play it so I can hear it from out front to see what it really sounds like. Just a good method to check what the guitar is really putting out. I've also laid them across my legs while sitting, so it was pointing straight up and just strummed some open strings just to get a feel for it, if there was nobody else around to strum it for me.

 

[JasonE]

On one of my acoustic purchases I asked the sales guy in the shop to play the two for me that I had narrowed it down to. When playing them myself they were really close. One was a Taylor and the other was a Martin. As soon as I heard the first chord strummed on the second guitar it was clear to me which one was the one I was taking home. It was amazing how much different the two sounded when standing in front of the person playing them.

 

[Bogner]

On one of my acoustic purchases I asked the sales guy in the shop to play the two for me that I had narrowed it down to. When playing them myself they were really close. One was a Taylor and the other was a Martin. As soon as I heard the first chord strummed on the second guitar it was clear to me which one was the one I was taking home. It was amazing how much different the two sounded when standing in front of the person playing them.

Very True! The Acoustic Guitar World Is Vastly Different Isn't It? I Have On More Than One Occasion Funneled My Choices Down By Having Strummed All Strings Open And Let It Ring While Hanging On The Wall. It Is Amazing To Hear The Difference As You Go Down The Line. I Can Immediately Tell If A Particular Guitar Is Worth Further Investigating By That Alone. They Either Have That "Thing" We Gravitate Towards About Them Or They Don't. I Have Also Had Others Play Them For Me To Hear The Difference. If You Can Hear The Differences While Playing Them, You Can Really Hear The Differences Being Out In Front Of Them. This Is Making Me Want To Play More Acoustic As It Has Been A Bit Since I Broke Mine Out And Played Them.

 

[László]

Yes, I was serious. This time. Don't get used to it.

I've always felt that auditioning the tone of an acoustic form the playing position was like auditioning a stereo speaker for purchase, by standing behind the speaker. And yes, I get that someone else will not sound exactly the same as you do while playing it, but once I'm in the "I may want this" mode, I always get someone else to play it so I can hear it from out front to see what it really sounds like. Just a good method to check what the guitar is really putting out. I've also laid them across my legs while sitting, so it was pointing straight up and just strummed some open strings just to get a feel for it, if there was nobody else around to strum it for me.

Excellent post and very true.

But other people play differently than I do, so I still don't know for sure how things will sound when I'm at the controls.

It helps if I get a 24 hour approval period. I want to hear how it sounds when I play it, in the context of how I work, so I record myself with it. Ultimately, however, I'm going to hear the guitar 99% of the time only from the player's position. So that's the #1 criteria: Do I want to listen to myself playing this thing?

 

[László]

It's also best to have someone else play an accordion when you're shopping for one.

The only problem is that no one wants to, or can.

 

[Bogner]

It's also best to have someone else play an accordion when you're shopping for one.

The only problem is that no one wants to, or can.

That Would Be An Expensive Day Because The Accordion Would Make All The Guitars Sound Great And You Would End Up Buying More.