A controversial topic but would love thoughts

[Utkarsh]

So folks, of the wonderful safe space that is the PRS forum, I would love to get your thoughts.

Thoughts on whether it is greedy or just plainly prudent to keep one eye on the 'investment' value of expensive instruments.

Personally, I love guitars and the fact that they have future value is a big enabler for me to own the instruments I want. If they were pure expense, I don't think I would have any more than two guitars or three. There is the other end of the spectrum to look at instruments (or any other alternative assets) as pure investments and drive the market crazy for the real players. Luckily while this phenomenon has hit art and classic cars, the guitar market (for now) seems restricted to only players.

With this opinion in mind, these are my thoughts on five guitars in the collection, that I think could be part of a good retirement nest egg (I am thirty seven now). Three of them, as you'd expect, are PRS. Three more videos with fifteen more guitars (and several PRSi) to come

 

[Moondog Wily]

I think the highest selling point for me on guitars as an investment is they are a real object. Not some paper trail that can vanish in a flash! We all have our own investment strategies, and yours pay you dividends by surrounding you with beauty and lovely instruments of creation!!! So long and short, not greedy or wrong in any way IMO! Thanks for sharing your amazing collection with us in such detail!!!

 

[veinbuster]

It’s an interesting topic, but I really don’t think most current guitars are really investments. Some may hold their value reasonably well and a few might keep up with inflation, but real gain in value is improbable for most.

The main reason is that so many more have been made than the old guitars that have crazy values. The ones like PRS Archtop that are lower volume, are lower volume because most people didn’t care much about them. That is unlikely to change as time goes on because there are too many other options for someone who really wants that type of guitar.

There have been tons of Tremonti and Paul’s Guitars made. There is not really any perceived magic in the early ones.

With patience, you might still make money on a dragon.

 

[JasonE]

I always think of resale value when I buy a guitar. I only buy higher end USA built instruments. I am sure I could sell some of mine for more than I paid for them 15+ years ago. However, the amount I would make on them is probably significantly less than what other investments would have returned for my invested amount. You would have to predict which ones are going to be the ones to really go up in value. Some will not go up at all or very little.

I have a guitar that I bought as sort of an investment and I have had it for a good while. For some reason that model didn't seem to go up in value. It must not have been as popular as I thought it was. It is a beautiful guitar. I have another one that I did not buy as an investment but have recently been thinking of selling it because I really don't play my 24 fret guitars much. It has gone up quite a bit in value and I have had it for less than half of the time as the one that I bought as kind of an investment. It is a crapshoot.

The final killer is that there is not a lot of new music being made by young people that is guitar heavy. If something doesn't change that, the guitar itself will fall out of fashion and the market will fall hard. Kids don't want to put the time in to learn and get good anymore. They want the easy button and that doesn't exist.

 

[GGJJGG]

Other than early PRS or those Mayer Super Eagles, I haven’t seen huge investment returns on PRS guitars. I like the idea that I will get some or most of the money back if I sell, but I don’t buy thinking I am going to hit the jackpot.

 

[Maertl513]

Though I admire PRS for their outstanding production line and ongoing drive to deliver the best tone, I'm sceptic regarding potential as an high pontential investment. Even Private Stock instruments.
In my opinion there are only a limited number of instruments that could offer returns/gains in case of selling.
And these are likely only those personal instruments of Carlos Santana, Mark Tremonti, John McLaughlin, and John Mayer. And I underline personal serveral times.

From time to time I check offers of PRS 513 on reverb and ebay.
Some anticipate the first editions (2004-07) could turn out to be PRS holy grail (likewise '59 LP, 50's Tele or early Strat). I'm sceptic, because which idol played which super hit with to guitar. I could name three professional (former and time to time) players of 513: Dave Weiner (former Steve Vai Band), Donna Grantis (Prince's band), and Martin Barre (Jethro Tull).
But they don't put an impact on PRS continuing the production (although 513 had been rewarded as the only electric twice in a row as 'best electric wordwide' by an international jury until today).

For years some 513 (and even Private Stock models with Brazzy necks - US only) offers are prolonged every time with high prices.
The prices are overrated.
I don't know the ratio worldwide, I was told by the head of a custom shop of one of our national big players of music stores (maybe 2nd behind Thomann), that out of ten custom shop instruments nine are from Fender and Gibson, and one is EBMM, Ibanez, Duesenberg, Mayones, Gretsch, Anderson, and so on, and PRS.

PRS is as a brand too young to achieve the same attention by bidders as early Fenders or Gibsons.
Reason for that is - my opinion - both companies had the luck of early birth to be assessed as professional instruments at the time, electrified music appeared in public.

If the collector Joe Bonamassa changes his focus to PRS, there could be an even chance, that PRS instruments will be investment objects.

I bought my three PRS to play them, not as an investment.

 

[Greywolf]

I buy some strictly as investments for thier rarity and beauty , all of mine have increased in value since I've bought them . I enjoy each one, but there are some that are specifically assigned to be a workhorse as well . It's all good , take care of the ones you love .

 

[nac]

It’s an interesting topic, but I really don’t think most current guitars are really investments. Some may hold their value reasonably well and a few might keep up with inflation, but real gain in value is improbable for most.

The main reason is that so many more have been made than the old guitars that have crazy values. The ones like PRS Archtop that are lower volume, are lower volume because most people didn’t care much about them. That is unlikely to change as time goes on because there are too many other options for someone who really wants that type of guitar.

There have been tons of Tremonti and Paul’s Guitars made. There is not really any perceived magic in the early ones.

With patience, you might still make money on a dragon.

This, exactly this. There are better ways to invest your money than guitars.

 

[nac]

Utkarsh I believe that is your video you posted, is that right?

 

[ViperDoc]

Seeing as how vintage 59 Les Pauls have taken since 1959 to become as valuable as they are, investing in guitars is more for the joy of playing them than profiting on their sale 75 years later. Plus, only the ones that sat dormant in their cases are worth their princely sums. And then, to retain their condition, they must remain there. Kinda sad.

 

[Lewguitar]

Seeing as how vintage 59 Les Pauls have taken since 1959 to become as valuable as they are, investing in guitars is more for the joy of playing them than profiting on their sale 75 years later. Plus, only the ones that sat dormant in their cases are worth their princely sums. And then, to retain their condition, they must remain there. Kinda sad.

And how much did Kirk Hammett just pay for his pristine 59 LP?

https://imgur.com/W33RWg0

 

[ViperDoc]

And how much did Kirk Hammett just pay for his pristine 59 LP?

https://imgur.com/W33RWg0

Haha, touché. I saw the Rick Beato interview where he mentions that he turned down a go-away fee, but I don’t recall he mentioned the actual price paid. Anyone who wants to plan on making a tidy profit from a PRS resale in 70 years (think Dragon) I’m not going to stop you. Good luck!

 

[Utkarsh]

Utkarsh I believe that is your video you posted, is that right?

Yes it's my video

 

[Utkarsh]

Thanks folks for the diversity of opinions. Loved reading through all of them. I'm going to summarize my points in prose as I realize (thankfully for the sake of human attention span) a video is not everyone's cup of tea

1) Buying a regular NEW PRS (or any guitar) is not an investment. You'll probably lose 20-30% of the value like you would with a new car straight off. Very few exceptions like some of the crazy Gibson runs Greeny etc or Gibson R9s in general (The why of this is point #3)

2) That said, at a bare minimum, a USED guitar is an inflation hedge only IF you have the ability to buy and sell directly. What does this mean? This means it will rise at the rate of inflation, because as new guitar prices go typically at the rate of inflation, used guitars will follow proportionately. Look back at any used guitar you sold a few years ago. In general it will cost you more to buy it back today. This argument goes for a toss, if you buy and sell to dealers, as (rightfully) they need to make their margin.

3) Thirdly, there is nostalgia. It's something difficult to place a price on.What is true for Gibson today will be true for PRS tomorrow. The few Baby Boomers with deep pockets that drive vintage Gibson Fenders and vintage aping (like R9s) value, will be replaced by the few late Gen Xers and Millenials, for whom Gibson was simply not a thing. There hasn't been a single mass popular Gibson playing artist since Slash in the late 80s (barring Tom De Longe and we know what happens with his guitars). PRS toting artists (Linkin Park, Creed, Incubus and many more) were incredibly popular on a global mass stage and that sound of the late 90s, 00s we also know defined a generation.

4) This is not a PRS specific argument. It's more a generational argument. Look at the artists and guitars that defined the youth of anyone born after 1975. Look for scarcity. Those are the long term investments

How does this impact me? If points 2 and 3 were not true, logic would dictate I get rid of a lot of my guitar collection, indeed a lot of guitars I like. Lets face it, realistically one does not need more than one or two guitars (maybe five in my case since I also play 7 string and 8). We like having many guitars and these factors enable me to have more guitars and enjoy them.

Are there better places to put your money? of course. But are there better relatively low risk ways (going back to point 2) to put some of your money and enjoy it. For a guitarist with some knowledge about his/her subject and the ability to buy and sell directly, not too many

 

[Maxime Bousquet]

The value is in scarcity, something that is no longer in production and becomes fashionable again could be lucrative.

The guitars are in my opinion at best of equal value, or even slightly lower, the market being saturated and unfortunately less popular.
If you are buying a guitar from a famous artist or a bankrupt company and there is interest in that brand, then yes!

The things that gain the most value are often insignificant, the best example are Lego blocks, buy a box, keep it without touching it and wait 10 years you will be surprised to see the price!

the purchase of virgin land, bottles of wine... in short, personally, I buy guitars out of passion and if one day they are worth more, that will be so much the better!

 

[dmatthews]

I have been frugal.
Not in my acquisitions, but in how/why/when.
I've been a hawk on deals involving "nice" to "very nice" core+ PRS guitars.
Currently the harem could easily fetch what I paid plus a premium. What kind of a "premium"? Not a lot, but enough.
So in "the end" I will have been able to play this 10 guitar stable for years for nothing, and maybe a bit of a premium.
I'm good with that.

 

[Utkarsh]

I have been frugal.
Not in my acquisitions, but in how/why/when.
I've been a hawk on deals involving "nice" to "very nice" core+ PRS guitars.
Currently the harem could easily fetch what I paid plus a premium. What kind of a "premium"? Not a lot, but enough.
So in "the end" I will have been able to play this 10 guitar stable for years for nothing, and maybe a bit of a premium.
I'm good with that.

I love this point. I think that's the magic of guitars as a passion. You get to play them and if you are deliberate about it, either not lose money or perhaps even make some. That 'making of money' is purely paper value though, there to be tapped in an emergency. One wouldn't sell a guitar one likes just because it has gone up in value, except for exigent circumstances

 

[Rider1260]

For investment PRS you should be looking at the 80s early 90s guitars, maybe Dragons, Santana 1 would be the bigger $$$ guitars.
Guitars that should be valuable like the Multifoils list for lots of $$$ but sit unsold for along time.
New Guitars you have to hold for a decade or so , used guitars you have to just buy smart or wait for an economic downturn and have cash at the ready, and sometimes unpopular models at the time they were made that had a limited production run like the KL series , DC22 , NF3 , DC3 . You can do well if you educate yourself just like any investment.
I look at my group of guitars as a savings account I can use , when really needed it can be liquidated for a bit of positive $$$

 

[dmatthews]

I love this point. I think that's the magic of guitars as a passion. You get to play them and if you are deliberate about it, either not lose money or perhaps even make some. That 'making of money' is purely paper value though, there to be tapped in an emergency. One wouldn't sell a guitar one likes just because it has gone up in value, except for exigent circumstances

Thank you...
As an "off the cuff" example I acquired a sweet deal on a local buy for a 2001 McCarty with rosewood neck in maybe 2013.
I don't really want to post what I got it for, but today I know I could get double for it easily.
As time has progressed, and in these current times these deals are less likely to impossible. That said, it can be done.

The sexy guitar in question... and trotted out at the drop of a hat... often...

 

[Utkarsh]

I look at my group of guitars as a savings account I can use , when really needed it can be liquidated for a bit of positive $$$

Exactly