2019 guitars release date

[shinksma]

I like Sweetwater, and have bought studio gear from them since the only thing they sold was sounds for Kurzweil synths in the 80s, but I sure wish they hadn’t come up with this artificial term, “sales engineer”, when “salesperson” describes the job perfectly.

I guess they think “salesperson” isn’t impressive enough, the way “janitor” isn’t impressive enough, and janitors are now “custodial engineers”.

So much for degrees in engineering! What will we call real engineers, if jobs that don’t even require a high school degree are now engineering jobs?

Not trying to pile on, but I agree with Les.

In some jurisdictions, it is illegal to refer to yourself as an "engineer" unless you have been officially recognized by the local Professional Engineering Society. Even folks with the degree cannot call themselves an engineer in a professional sense until they pass the Society exam and get a "license/licence". They can say they work in Engineering, and they have an Engineering degree, but cannot call themselves an "engineer". Ontario and North Carolina come to mind immediately, but there are other areas I am sure.

For example, from the Professional Engineers of Ontario website FAQ:

http://www.peo.on.ca/index.php?ci_id=2075&la_id=1#aftergrad

After graduation, can I call myself an engineer?
No. Legally speaking, you are an engineering graduate, not an engineer. Only holders of a P.Eng. license are legally permitted to use the title “P.Eng.” or the term “engineer” in their job title, or to use any other term, title or description that may lead to the belief that they are authorized to practice professional engineering. An engineering education is the first step to earning your license and eventually having the right to call yourself an engineer, but you may only use the term “engineer” in your job title once you have P.Eng. licence.

 

[DougUSMC]

After graduation, can I call myself an engineer?
No. Legally speaking, you are an engineering graduate, not an engineer. Only holders of a P.Eng. license are legally permitted to use the title “P.Eng.” or the term “engineer” in their job title, or to use any other term, title or description that may lead to the belief that they are authorized to practice professional engineering. An engineering education is the first step to earning your license and eventually having the right to call yourself an engineer, but you may only use the term “engineer” in your job title once you have P.Eng. licence.

Wow, that's totally different up there in Canada. Down here in the US we have this thing called "Free Speech", where people can call themselves whatever they want.

Seriously tho: I *am* an engineer, and tell people that they can change my business cards and call me whatever they want, as long as the check clears every payday!

 

[goat-n-gitter]

Wow, that's totally different up there in Canada. Down here in the US we have this thing called "Free Speech", where people can call themselves whatever they want.

Seriously tho: I *am* an engineer, and tell people that they can change my business cards and call me whatever they want, as long as the check clears every payday!

Yep, serious speech repression up in the great white north!

My Job title has been "Senior Engineer" for nearly 10 years now, despite not having finished my degree. Meanwhile, I have watched several Master's degree holders get marched out the door from my department because they couldn't "Engineer" their way out of a wet paper bag. I then somehow managed to pick up their slack.
I was also made "Chief Engineer" of the 16 track studio my band's management company ran in the early '90s, despite having taught myself with a Tascam 4-track cassette, and my clients kept coming back.

I have no problem with the Sweetwater guys calling themselves "Sales Engineers". Every one of them who has been assigned to me has been very knowledgeable and helpful.

 

[pauloqs]

Sorry to contribute to the tangent, but the work position is not called an Engineer , but a Sales Engineer. I think these two things should be considered differently. It's like in mathematics, equi-continuity vs continuity. The qualifier "equi" makes a huuuuuuge difference. Or, for instance in my field an Applied Econometrician and an Econometrician are two different beasts. Economists who use econometrics/statistics on a regular basis like to label themselves as Applied Econometricians. To be an Econometrician without the Applied qualifier, is drastically different. I'd also like to add that you can check the bio of your Sweetwater sales engineer. Mine has a degree in music and is an experienced gigging musician, apart from that he has other certificates and experience with studio and recording. All I'm saying is, I get why they do it. These are people with at leas a bachelor's degree in Music and vast music experience. They want to differentiate their "sales rep" from other businesses that not require the same background that Sweetwater does. Sure it's overkill, but overkill is underrated. When I'm torn between two pieces of gear, I trust my guy when he suggests something. When he says, "based on what you're telling me, I think you might like A even more than B," I know he's probably right, because he often is. I'm all for them to try to differentiate their personnel positions as they seem to have higher requirements. Maybe a different wording would better, however, I don't think anybody thinks they have an actual engineering degree.

Edit: Also, job title and personal title are two very different things. For instance, some firms have a job title called Economist, however they are not a University that grant Economics PhD's. You have a Ph.D. in Economics, you're an economist regardless if your job tittle says Economist or Associate or something different.

 

[drdoom8793]

Back on topic, I've got the same model pre-ordered at Sweetwater and last i heard, they were expected in April or May. However, it's obviously going to depend on when you put in your order, what color you picked, etc. Like everyone else has said, I'd call or email your Sales Engineer to see if they have any more information.

 

[László]

Wow, that's totally different up there in Canada. Down here in the US we have this thing called "Free Speech", where people can call themselves whatever they want.

In point of fact, that’s not true. Freedom of speech is not absolute; for example, misrepresentation isn’t legal. Using certain brand names isn’t legal, even though it’s speech. A conspiracy isn’t legal speech. There are lots of examples of restrictions on speech in the US, I’ve only named a few.

Fact is, most states in the US have laws against calling yourself, for example, a lawyer or physician, even if you have the degree but don’t yet hold your license!

An example: In many, if not most states, unlicensed law school graduates are prohibited from identifying themselves by such terms as attorney or lawyer. The same is true of physicians, and other state-licensed professions, such as dentists and nurses.

I don’t know if engineers are required to hold a license in most states - I’ve never looked that up in my former life as a lawyer (before getting into the music business, and yes, I still hold a license so I can use the term legitimately).

Whether a state would clamp down on the idea of “sales engineer” being illegal is highly doubtful, but there are prohibitions against calling yourself certain things when you’re not.

I’m not accusing Sweetwater of using the term, “sales engineer” as being in anything but bad taste. It’s just silly and pretentious as hell to me, as though there’s something wrong with simply calling yourself a salesperson.

In the automotive field, for example, the term is sales representative, and they’re a very knowledgeable group, required to provide a great deal of technical information. Product knowledge doesn’t make someone an engineer. What’s wrong with Sweetwater using a term like sales representative? Not fancy enough?

Edit: You guys know I tend to rant when I think something’s annoying. The sweetwater sales engineer thing is merely annoying, and a little creepy. But I really don’t care ALL that much.

 

[bodia]

In point of fact, that’s not true. Freedom of speech is not absolute; for example, misrepresentation isn’t legal. Using certain brand names isn’t legal, even though it’s speech. A conspiracy isn’t legal speech. There are lots of examples of restrictions on speech in the US, I’ve only named a few.

Fact is, most states in the US have laws against calling yourself, for example, a lawyer or physician, even if you have the degree but don’t yet hold your license!

An example: In many, if not most states, unlicensed law school graduates are prohibited from identifying themselves by such terms as attorney or lawyer. The same is true of physicians, and other state-licensed professions, such as dentists and nurses.

I don’t know if engineers are required to hold a license in most states - I’ve never looked that up in my former life as a lawyer (before getting into the music business, and yes, I still hold a license so I can use the term legitimately).

Whether a state would clamp down on the idea of “sales engineer” being illegal is highly doubtful, but there are prohibitions against calling yourself certain things when you’re not.

I’m not accusing Sweetwater of using the term, “sales engineer” as being in anything but bad taste. It’s just silly and pretentious as hell to me, as though there’s something wrong with simply calling yourself a salesperson.

In the automotive field, for example, the term is sales representative, and they’re a very knowledgeable group, required to provide a great deal of technical information. Product knowledge doesn’t make someone an engineer. What’s wrong with Sweetwater using a term like sales representative? Not fancy enough?

In simple terms, it doesn't grant any one the right to say anything. It prohibits the Government from placing restrictions on speech. However, it does not prevent private individuals, or companies, from placing limitations on speech.

 

[alantig]

“Build Bridges all your life m, no one calls you an engineer. But suck one...” You know how that one goes.

 

[Black Plaid]

I had always thought a "sales engineer" was actually someone who sold something technical, and had a deep understanding of it.

So the regular sales guys do all the schmoozing and oily sales routine, but when the clients needed to actually know something, or their staff did rather, they'd contact the 'sales engineer', who was really an engineer who could talk to clients.

But yeah, I think LSchefman has it right in this case, Sweetwater is just handing out the title to all their sales people.

 

[DougUSMC]

I understand where you're coming from Les, and don't disagree with the intent. If Sweetwater is misrepresenting the level of education and quals someone has when they call them a Sales Engineer, that's not right. I realize that I can't just call myself a lawyer and take clients, just as I couldn't sign off as the architect of a skyscraper.

I just think in this case it's a sales force. Everyone knows it's a sales position. I'd bet an informal poll would show that 90%+ of the forum knows what "caveat emptor" means.

Heck, on a daily basis I mess with the software developers around here, b/c they like to call themselves Software Engineers. I'm always saying "You guys write code w/o even mockups, you're like the anti-engineers!!"

 

[László]

I understand where you're coming from Les, and don't disagree with the intent. If Sweetwater is misrepresenting the level of education and quals someone has when they call them a Sales Engineer, that's not right. I realize that I can't just call myself a lawyer and take clients, just as I couldn't sign off as the architect of a skyscraper.

I just think in this case it's a sales force. Everyone knows it's a sales position. I'd bet an informal poll would show that 90%+ of the forum knows what "caveat emptor" means.

Heck, on a daily basis I mess with the software developers around here, b/c they like to call themselves Software Engineers. I'm always saying "You guys write code w/o even mockups, you're like the anti-engineers!!"

You’re right on all counts. And of course I made too much of a fuss in my rant - it’s what I do!

I spend way too much time alone in my craptastic studio.

 

[DougUSMC]

You’re right on all counts. And of course I made too much of a fuss in my rant - it’s what I do!

I spend way too much time alone in my craptastic studio.

Thanks, but I think at this point we're vehemently agreeing!!

 

[andy474x]

I like Sweetwater, and have bought studio gear from them since the only thing they sold was sounds for Kurzweil synths in the 80s, but I sure wish they hadn’t come up with this artificial term, “sales engineer”, when “salesperson” describes the job perfectly.

I guess they think “salesperson” isn’t impressive enough, the way “janitor” isn’t impressive enough, and janitors are now “custodial engineers”.

So much for degrees in engineering! What will we call real engineers, if jobs that don’t even require a high school degree are now engineering jobs?

And what happens when people see through the hype and being a “sales engineer” stops being fancy enough?

“Hi, this is Joe, your Doctor of Sales, how can I help you?”

“A doctor? If you went to medical school, why are you working for Sweetwater?”

“Oh, I’m not a medical doctor,”

“PhD?”

“No.”

“Dentist?”

“No.”

“Podiatrist? Juris Doctor?”

“No, I just sell gear. I’m a doctor of selling.”

“I see. Well, I’m the Mystical Great God of Music, Emperor of Debit Cards, King of Tone, and Holy Commander Doctor Engineer Jedi Knight In Charge of the Universe. I need a microphone, but first, Doctor, I’m getting a pain in the derrière from thinking about your magnified title.”

Dude, if I can get a prescription for gear, I’m in.

 

[DougUSMC]

Dude, if I can get a prescription for gear, I’m in.

In stead of the Doc sending it directly to the pharmacy, can one of you fine gents have it sent directly to my wife?

 

[andy474x]

In stead of the Doc sending it directly to the pharmacy, can one of you fine gents have it sent directly to my wife?

Sure. If you intend to use it on stage, we can call it “performance enhancing.” Would that help?

 

[DougUSMC]

Sure. If you intend to use it on stage, we can call it “performance enhancing.” Would that help?

#legit

 

[László]

Thanks, but I think at this point we're vehemently agreeing!!

It’s great to have that, right?

 

[Ovibos]

In point of fact, that’s not true. Freedom of speech is not absolute; for example, misrepresentation isn’t legal. Using certain brand names isn’t legal, even though it’s speech. A conspiracy isn’t legal speech. There are lots of examples of restrictions on speech in the US, I’ve only named a few.

Fact is, most states in the US have laws against calling yourself, for example, a lawyer or physician, even if you have the degree but don’t yet hold your license!

An example: In many, if not most states, unlicensed law school graduates are prohibited from identifying themselves by such terms as attorney or lawyer. The same is true of physicians, and other state-licensed professions, such as dentists and nurses.

I don’t know if engineers are required to hold a license in most states - I’ve never looked that up in my former life as a lawyer (before getting into the music business, and yes, I still hold a license so I can use the term legitimately).

Whether a state would clamp down on the idea of “sales engineer” being illegal is highly doubtful, but there are prohibitions against calling yourself certain things when you’re not.

I’m not accusing Sweetwater of using the term, “sales engineer” as being in anything but bad taste. It’s just silly and pretentious as hell to me, as though there’s something wrong with simply calling yourself a salesperson.

In the automotive field, for example, the term is sales representative, and they’re a very knowledgeable group, required to provide a great deal of technical information. Product knowledge doesn’t make someone an engineer. What’s wrong with Sweetwater using a term like sales representative? Not fancy enough?

Edit: You guys know I tend to rant when I think something’s annoying. The sweetwater sales engineer thing is merely annoying, and a little creepy. But I really don’t care ALL that much.

<pulls pin>

And this is how chiropractors get away with calling themselves 'doctors'...

<runs away>

 

[DougUSMC]

<pulls pin>

And this is how chiropractors get away with calling themselves 'doctors'...

<runs away>

<jumps on grenade>

And Psychologists and Sociologists!!