Hollowbody ii tone issues

[django49]

Yowzers!! Got a link to any threads with more pics of this guitar??

Sure, why not......From the prior owner.

 

[jxe]

that color is batty! great.

Sure, why not......From the prior owner.

 

[Mark Franklin]

The presence control on a Lonestar can also make highs sound spikey, depending on the guitar. For many of my guitars, I'll set it well below 9:00 for anything other than a pure clean tone and not much more than that for clean tones. It is a great amp, but the tone controls can be very tricky and it took me a long time to get comfortable getting good tones out of it, which probably reflects more negatively on me than the amp.

 

[László]

The presence control on a Lonestar can also make highs sound spikey, depending on the guitar. For many of my guitars, I'll set it well below 9:00 for anything other than a pure clean tone and not much more than that for clean tones. It is a great amp, but the tone controls can be very tricky and it took me a long time to get comfortable getting good tones out of it, which probably reflects more negatively on me than the amp.

Yup, it can be a bright amp; of course, everything is related to personal taste! Presence controls operate on the power section of the amp. Some of that comes down to the power tubes used. So many power tubes these days are bright and brittle (come to think of it, lots of preamp tubes these days are brittle, too).

I just watched a new Pete Thorn video where he shows how he dials in a Marshall JMP and a mid 60s AC30. The thing to take away from the video is that the tone controls are set by sweeping through their entire range, 0-10, as opposed to tweaking in increments from the middle settings. That’s the only way to really understand them, grok how they interact with each other, and with the amp’s gain structure, IMHO. Start at 0, go to 10, listen, and find out exactly what each control can do, and how it operates on the tone.

It’s similar to the way to set a parametric studio EQ, where you’re looking for the frequency you want to boost or cut; turn the boost control all the way up, sweep the frequency band from 0-10, find the offending frequency, and then dial the control back.

I’m not a player who tries for a tone like Pete Thorn’s - he’s an amazing player, but I don’t use tones with that much upper midrange bite. Nonetheless, he knows how to dial in an amp to get his sounds, and that’s the point of the exercise, dialing in an amp for your own sound.

One other thing to think about is the effect of the room the amp is sitting in. I don’t know about you folks, but if I move the amp even in my own room, from, say, near a wall or a corner to the middle of the room, I need to adjust the controls. This is because room modes really affect what we hear as the sound bounces off the surfaces of the room - floor, ceiling, and walls all affect it, and the distances of the speaker from these surfaces has a large effect on the bass response, and therefore, the perceived frequency balance of the sound. Of course, nearby reflective surfaces will affect the other frequencies, but their wavelengths are shorter and therefore easier to deal with.

 

[Gonzo]

So, had a good couple of hours to try to dial things in today and it's much better. Upping the mids and dropping the bass really made a big difference. I also accidentally had the helix set to line out instead of instrument out which seemed to make a difference. Finally, I dialed back the output of the helix into the amp a bit. All of those things seemed to get me really close to what I was expecting/hoping for.

It's definitely very different than the cu22. Overall it feels kinda jazzy. The versatility of having the piezo sounds is fantastic.

I was researching pickups and happened upon a private stock hb with p90s in it, which was intriguing. Came across fralin p90's and p92's (in humbucker size) and I'm super tempted. Are there any weird issues that may arise from putting these in? Would it mess up the blend with the piezo? I'm not running out and doing it or anything, just sort of marinating on the idea.

 

[merciful-evans]

So, had a good couple of hours to try to dial things in today and it's much better. Upping the mids and dropping the bass really made a big difference. I also accidentally had the helix set to line out instead of instrument out which seemed to make a difference. Finally, I dialed back the output of the helix into the amp a bit. All of those things seemed to get me really close to what I was expecting/hoping for.

It's definitely very different than the cu22. Overall it feels kinda jazzy. The versatility of having the piezo sounds is fantastic.

I was researching pickups and happened upon a private stock hb with p90s in it, which was intriguing. Came across fralin p90's and p92's (in humbucker size) and I'm super tempted. Are there any weird issues that may arise from putting these in? Would it mess up the blend with the piezo? I'm not running out and doing it or anything, just sort of marinating on the idea.

Glad you made progress & broke the back of the problem.

Any replacement pickup with different output can sound out of (volume) balance with the remaining one.

 

[Dondante]

Here is a one dollar experiment...I love them for a fatter, mellowed out treble tone...plus, they are killer for precision picking (ask Trey & Jerry (well...))

A few months ago I Figured out my thicker picks toned down the highs I was battling.

 

[Gonzo]

Just an update; I was never really to dial in the sound I was looking for and sort of frustrated with my “almost dream guitar” so I ordered some dragon ii pickups and holy ****! It’s perfect now. In addition to sounding more full and getting rid of the “tinny” sound, I’m digging the higher output as well. It sounds so much better than the stock pickups. It also blends well with the piezo now.

By the way, even my luthier agreed that it really opened up and sounds so much better now. I guess I just don’t like those 85/15’s. Anyone wanna buy em?

 

[BWV548]

By the way, even my luthier agreed that it really opened up and sounds so much better now. I guess I just don’t like those 85/15’s. Anyone wanna buy em?

You may want to try them in a solid body first. I love them (the LTs) in my 594, and find them just ok in my HBII

 

[P90s]

Hey all. New to forum. Have owned what I believe to be is a late 90’s custom 22 (will ask for help confirming in another thresd) that is so perfect for me that I havent been able to really enjoy other guitars that I play. Been wanting a strat style and got super excited about the silver sky. Put one on order a couple months ago at the same time I purchased a mesa lonestar and line 6 helix.

Suffice it to say ive been in tone heaven playing my custom 22. What an amazing rig!

Anyway, i got tired of waiting with no answers on the silver sky. Stopped into store and played a bunch of potential alternatives. Accidentally played one out of my price range, a hollowbody ii piezo artist. It was so amazing that I couldnt settle for anything less and i bit the bullet!

The point of this all is that when i finally got to play through my rig, i’m finding some harsh highs that are hard to tame without muddying my tone. Just wondering if anyone has experienced this or has any advice.

Pics below. Not my first color choice but damn, she’s sexy.

I suggest you play with a band before do anything. I bought a HB and thought the high registers were really piercing, not in a good way. Then I played it with the band and the upper registets cut through the mix in a clear and musical way. It sounds great to me.

 

[pac90]

Just an update; I was never really to dial in the sound I was looking for and sort of frustrated with my “almost dream guitar” so I ordered some dragon ii pickups and holy ****! It’s perfect now. In addition to sounding more full and getting rid of the “tinny” sound, I’m digging the higher output as well. It sounds so much better than the stock pickups. It also blends well with the piezo now.

By the way, even my luthier agreed that it really opened up and sounds so much better now. I guess I just don’t like those 85/15’s. Anyone wanna buy em?

They are 58/15 as they are covered and are quite sought after, someone will be rushing for them

 

[Steve's addiction]

Talk about perfect timing. I am considering a HB II with 58/15's and this thread really helped me to decide. Just don't tell my wife

 

[Gonzo]

They are 58/15 as they are covered and are quite sought after, someone will be rushing for them

Is there a breakdown of the different pups and their outputs/tonal charateristics anywhere?

 

[Boogie]

I’m a huge fan of vintage pickups in the HBII. The 36th Anniversary or Antiquities do very well and would not hesitate making a swap if I wasn’t 100% satisfied. Make it yours.

 

[Gonzo]

Also, what kind of price would you guys sell the 58/15's for considering they are brand new and in perfect condition?

 

[pac90]

See ebay, but you may find it harder to move on the guitar in future without the originals. If you can afford it, worth parking them in a drawer, there value wont change much over time anyway

 

[dcm_guitar]

If you can keep the originals without any hardship, I would. If you ever sell the guitar, it will be more attractive on the used market with the original pickups.

 

[Cocorosa]

We’ve pretty much all been there.

A guitar amp is a color box. Unlike hi fi amps that run at .01% distortion or less, “clean” tube guitar amps run at 10% harmonic distortion or more. Guitar amps create harmonic overtones of their own. And the hotter the pickup, the more the amp is pushed into distortion. Even clean. That’s what makes them sound creamy, or fat, or insert adjective of choice.

When tubes distort to a certain point, you get more bass. A lower output pickup pushes an amp in a different way from a hot pickup on the low end as well as the high end. To test this, just insert a distortion plugin on any track in a DAW, and see what you get - more bottom.

On top of that, a hollow body guitar, especially one without a center block, has different resonances than a solid body guitar. If you think about a resonant peak, it’s a bump or spike in the frequency response just before the high frequencies roll off. Again, you’re pushing those tubes and speakers in a different way with this guitar. It’s not just the pickups.

So plug your new hollowbody guitar, with its different resonant peak, and its lower-output pickups, into your very same amp, and hell yes it’s going to push those overtone-creators (tubes) differently! And the speaker is going to behave differently, too.

But that is the freakin’ point! It’s supposed to sound different, not just look different.

One tip I’ve learned with some amps, the Lone Star among them, is that if you turn down the treble, turn down the bass a little, too. It will restore some clarity. With the bass predominant, the LS can turn to mud in a hurry (as you might expect, given its multiple circuits and gain stages that add layers of distortion, and therefore, bass).

Thank you, it has been an education reading your last two posts

 

[JJJ]

You will conceivably need to set your amps up differently for the hollowbody.

Also, start froms cratch with your pickup heights. Maybe use PRS' specs as a starting point, get the heights where they're noce and warm and then do the poles for string volume.

 

[JJJ]

Ah well i just saw your update. I have some dragon IIs and I really love them. Never envisioned them in a hollowbody but I bet they sound great.

The neck pickups in particular wyen you get the height right is sublime. Perfect mix of airy PAF and modern clarity