Hollowbody ii tone issues

I guess I need to save up some money and make the switch. Was also considering the same for my '01 McCarty solidbody (original Pick-ups are McCarty's).
 
Hopefully, you are not expecting your beautiful HB II to sound like your custom 22? - IMHO - It just won't happen. I have 57-08's in my HB II with piezo - very warm sound that I like a lot - but quite different from the CU24 that I used to own.
Good luck. One other option that may work - roll your volume control down to about 7.5 and see if you like it. Then I would try all of the other "nothing to lose" options presented in this thread before I change out pick ups.

PS - Wish my HB II guitar was the same color as yours (which is just stunning)
 
django49 said:
Had an original (1999) with Archtop pickups. Some people love them, but I never did. Finally got tired of never playing it and replaced with Wolfetone Dr. Vintage. That really warmed it up. But my later version, with 57/08s is even better.....
But them I dig the color too......

Click to expand...
Unholy carp, that's beautiful!
 
With a new guitar I usually construct a new tone patch from the ground up on my signal processor. I think if you did this using your Helix, you would end this problem. Spend an hour or two trying out all the options in combinations. Or, for a quicker fix, just concentrate on the EQ with the Helix.
 
merciful-evans said:
With a new guitar I usually construct a new tone patch from the ground up on my signal processor. I think if you did this using your Helix, you would end this problem. Spend an hour or two trying out all the options in combinations. Or, for a quicker fix, just concentrate on the EQ with the Helix.
Click to expand...
I have to agree with this. When I had a HB1 w/piezo It sounded totally different than my custom24’s. I will say though you get more out of it when you totally rebuild a new pre-set specifically for that guitar. At the time I was using fractal axe ultra. I don’t have the guitar anymore only because I prefer 24 frets.
 
Appreciate all of the great advice. I'll start from scratch on the helix just for this guitar and try the eq there. I think I'll also take it to the local shop to adjust the pickups. I'm nervous to do any of that myself though I just ordered some ebony pickup rings so maybe I'll play with the pickup height when swapping. I did indeed notice that the neck pickup is much lower than the bridge and it's really the neck pickup that's the most egregious.

If all of this fails, I'll swap pickups. Any suggestions knowing that I love the dragon 2's? I've heard great things about Lindy Fralins.
 
Gonzo said:
Appreciate all of the great advice. I'll start from scratch on the helix just for this guitar and try the eq there. I think I'll also take it to the local shop to adjust the pickups. I'm nervous to do any of that myself though I just ordered some ebony pickup rings so maybe I'll play with the pickup height when swapping. I did indeed notice that the neck pickup is much lower than the bridge and it's really the neck pickup that's the most egregious.

If all of this fails, I'll swap pickups. Any suggestions knowing that I love the dragon 2's? I've heard great things about Lindy Fralins.
Click to expand...

If you go the pickup swap route, I'd toss out a vote for 57/08s. My 2014 HB II has them. Sounds awesome!
 
Here is a one dollar experiment...I love them for a fatter, mellowed out treble tone...plus, they are killer for precision picking (ask Trey & Jerry (well...))
dunlop-gator-2.0mm_m.jpg
 
A couple of observations...

Patience is a virtue. A day is way too short a time to evaluate pickups.

Perhaps you know this stuff already, but I’ll cover it in case you haven’t, I’ll start with the obvious:

The 58/15s are lower output pickups by design; they are intended to sound like, and have the clarity of, vintage pickups; I believe the magnets are alnico, and the ones in your CU22 from the 90s are probably ceramic. These things affect both clarity and output level, but they also affect the perceived brightness.

I love the 58/15s, but they require a different approach to setting up your amp. The Lone Star series from Mesa are pretty bright amps (I have a Lone Star 100), especially with the stock Chinese preamp tubes, so that’s part of what needs to be worked on. The most powerful control on the Lone Star is (my opinion) the midrange control. Mesa usually demos the amp with the mids around 9:00, and the treble around 12:00, but they set the bass very low as well. More bass on that amp = more mud.

I’d mess with that relationship a little.

Try setting your amp up on each channel with the guitar volume around 6-7, and dial in a tone you like, starting from scratch. You will hear less extreme high end, and you’ll be able to control your highs with your guitar’s volume control and tone control because you’ll have somewhere to go when you want brightness, and when you don’t.

If you set up an amp with the guitar volume on 10, and you lower the volume, sure it gets a bit dark. Set the amp up with the guitar volume lower, and you’ll have more control in both directions.

Since you liked the guitar with the amp you tried in the store, try making your amp sound similar to that amp. It can easily be done with an EQ pedal, though the amp’s tone and gain controls can do it, too. I love what a good EQ pedal can do to shape the tone, and oddly enough, the very best EQ pedals on the market are cheaper than a set of pickups, and will be useful with all of your guitars and amps, not just one instrument!

Seems to me that a very good reason for having more than one guitar is having guitars that sound different, and that do different things. If you’re patient, you’ll find that the 58/15s are wonderful pickups. Just plan on spending a little time working with the guitar/amp relationship, and you should be fine.

Finally, I found my Lone Star sounded a lot smoother, a lot less ringy in the high frequencies, when I swapped the stock preamp tubes for new-old-stock GE preamp tubes from the 60s - 70s. The amp went from “Hmmm, I dunno” to “Hey, that sounds pretty good!”

Anyway, there’s a lot to play around with and think about. I wouldn’t give up on those pickups at all.

I’ll end with this: I’m a firm believer in matching amps to guitars and vice-versa, so I have a few amps. But similar color choices can be had with good analog pedals.
 
Reflecting on Les' comments.......I have been guilty of that.....That is, buying a new guitar because I wanted "something different". Then, plugging it in to the same amp I used last, with my favorite (older) guitar, and not changing any settings. "OMG, it does not sound as good! What can I do to make the new and different NEW guitar sound EXACTLY like the OLD guitar?"

Which leads to the question. "Why did I just spend x thousand dollars for a new guitar when the old one was perfect?"

You know, the old one is so perfect because it has been my number one for SIX YEARS and I have learned what makes it tick. (Well, sometimes, I think IT has just learned how to make ME sound good). To tell the truth, I am going to have to force myself to go back and follow Les' prescription for a couple of guitars. Not least that pink one I posted above which, as much as I like it, has not really moved up to the top tier. Which has lately made me seriously pondering cutting it loose. It would be a shame to do that prematurely.
 
django49 said:
Reflecting on Les' comments.......I have been guilty of that.....That is, buying a new guitar because I wanted "something different". Then, plugging it in to the same amp I used last, with my favorite (older) guitar, and not changing any settings. "OMG, it does not sound as good! What can I do to make the new and different NEW guitar sound EXACTLY like the OLD guitar?"

Which leads to the question. "Why did I just spend x thousand dollars for a new guitar when the old one was perfect?"

You know, the old one is so perfect because it has been my number one for SIX YEARS and I have learned what makes it tick. (Well, sometimes, I think IT has just learned how to make ME sound good). To tell the truth, I am going to have to force myself to go back and follow Les' prescription for a couple of guitars. Not least that pink one I posted above which, as much as I like it, has not really moved up to the top tier. Which has lately made me seriously pondering cutting it loose. It would be a shame to do that prematurely.
Click to expand...

We’ve pretty much all been there.

A guitar amp is a color box. Unlike hi fi amps that run at .01% distortion or less, “clean” tube guitar amps run at 10% harmonic distortion or more. Guitar amps create harmonic overtones of their own. And the hotter the pickup, the more the amp is pushed into distortion. Even clean. That’s what makes them sound creamy, or fat, or insert adjective of choice.

When tubes distort to a certain point, you get more bass. A lower output pickup pushes an amp in a different way from a hot pickup on the low end as well as the high end. To test this, just insert a distortion plugin on any track in a DAW, and see what you get - more bottom.

On top of that, a hollow body guitar, especially one without a center block, has different resonances than a solid body guitar. If you think about a resonant peak, it’s a bump or spike in the frequency response just before the high frequencies roll off. Again, you’re pushing those tubes and speakers in a different way with this guitar. It’s not just the pickups.

So plug your new hollowbody guitar, with its different resonant peak, and its lower-output pickups, into your very same amp, and hell yes it’s going to push those overtone-creators (tubes) differently! And the speaker is going to behave differently, too.

But that is the freakin’ point! It’s supposed to sound different, not just look different.

One tip I’ve learned with some amps, the Lone Star among them, is that if you turn down the treble, turn down the bass a little, too. It will restore some clarity. With the bass predominant, the LS can turn to mud in a hurry (as you might expect, given its multiple circuits and gain stages that add layers of distortion, and therefore, bass).
 
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I'm an old archtop guy. Try nickel strings first, along with pickup adjustments. Stay away from the brighter sounding strings that you may use on your 22. Consider having the treble bleed removed from the volume control. All my solid body electrics are PRS, all my archtops are not. They are not supposed to sound the same, and hopefully never will.
 
django49 said:
Had an original (1999) with Archtop pickups. Some people love them, but I never did. Finally got tired of never playing it and replaced with Wolfetone Dr. Vintage. That really warmed it up. But my later version, with 57/08s is even better.....
But them I dig the color too......

Click to expand...
Yowzers!! Got a link to any threads with more pics of this guitar?? :)
 
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