Amps are addictive... I am an addict, and I need help...

RickP

RickP

Established 1960, Still Not Dead
Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Messages
6,299
Location
Gulf Coast of Texas
finding more.

Years ago (2011, to be exact) I bought an Axe FX Ultra, was astounded by its capability and depth, and began gigging, for the first time ever, on a digital "amp." For a while, I didn't buy any amps at all, and actually sold a few of them off. To this day, I still gig an Axe FX, now the III. Unless you play arenas, or have a roadie to lug around and set up your gear, it's hard to beat. And, to my ear, no one does it better than Fractal Audio Systems.

But amps, and more specifically classic tube amps, just have a sound and feel that belongs to them alone. While digital is convenient, controllable, and sounds great, something about pleasantly glowing tubes screaming their Siren song always gets my attention. And, unlike some digital gear, they never lack the amp-in-the-room sound! It is truly addictive. And, by the way, do you know what injectable medicine comes in? Ampules. An ampule is defined as "a hermetically sealed small bulbous glass vessel that is used to hold a solution for hypodermic injection." Eerily similar to a vacuum tube, no? Coincidence? I think not!

Over the years, I have acquired a few of the quintessential ones from my personal guitar history... an old Super Reverb, a blackface Deluxe, a Mesa Road King II to cover all things Petaluma. At the end of last year, I was finally able to add a Carol Ann Tucana 3, a KT88 3-channel beast of a lovely amplifier I have long used as a main Axe FX model. You'd think I'd be happy... but noooooooooo.

Just this year, I have added several more... and this in a year I was "downsizing." First came a Mesa Boogie California Tweed that is astoundingly great sounding, flexible, and covers so much Fender ground that I might sell all but the Super Reverb one of these days. Then came my discovery of the PRS HX/DA, which I have spoken about at length in this very forum. I first played it through a 2x12 Carvin cab that had UK-made greenbacks in it. Incredible, and still my favorite combination. Then a 2x12 PRS stealth cab came available, which (of course) was purchased, and added a more modern and tighter sound to the HX/DA. Marshall tone box: checked!

Now, naturally (for me) this having found the long-searched-for authentic early Marshall sound lead to the "what else don't I have" thinking pattern, and I was fairly happy to say I only had one other hole in my personal amp list. A Vox AC30TB. Love the sound, and I have literally never played through one, ever. 40 something years. Have to address that. I did find a good deal on a Morgan 2x12 cabinet that had some Alnico Blues in it, and thought seriously about getting an AC20 Deluxe, after having heard some nice demoes. Then I found that it was discontinued, and replaced by the Morgan Dual 20 (an AC20 and Abbey in one box). Nearly bought one, but ran into a 1990 AC30TB anniversary model in great shape. Surely there is no suspense at this point... it's on the way. So what do I do with the Morgan cab? Surprise! The Deluxe Reverb sounds spectacular through it, clearly the best it has ever sounded. And, of course, I am sure it'll see time with the Vox. Oh yeah... did I mention that I acquired a second HX/DA somewhere during all of this?

Covid-19. Everyone else is blaming everything else on the virus. I'm jumping on the wagon. This is obviously Covid-related, and will clear up in 2021.

So, while this seems to be the last of the Holy Grail amps for me, I hold out little hope that there won't be more "necessary" additions at some point. And there could even be a few subtractions, as unlikely as that seems.

Am I alone up on this chair, or do others suffer from this amp(ule) addiction to glowing glass?
 
Last edited:
I really don't understand the term "amp in the room" as to using my Headrush and a couple of FRFR speakers. I run it stereo and I love the tones that I can get from it.
What does amp in the room give you over digital? I have a MT15 and a DV Mark cab and while I like them I don't really play them much as I don't really have many pedals and I don't use my HR with my MT15. Maybe I'm not cracking it loud enough, I don't know. Can you get an amp in the room sound from a 1-12 combo amp or does it have more to do with large cabinets? Maybe I need a 4-10 cab?
 
The whole amp in the room thing is a perception, and you can indeed get it with digital gear. The biggest takeaway, before I say anything else, is that if you like what you’re hearing and it works in your environment, it’s good! Don’t let anyone (me included) convince you that a tone you’re inspired by lacks anything.

Amplifiers, traditional tube powered preamp/power amp/speaker combinations, inherently sound a certain way. They aren’t full range, and focus on guitar-centric frequencies because they simply can’t do full range with their components. Cranked up, it’s moving air in a way you experience physically, that also interacts sonically with you and the guitar itself. It is “in the room” or in physical proximity to you. That feels a certain way.

I often equate the difference to listening to my amp live, and then listening to my finished, recorded guitar through a modeler. Face it, even having your 4x12 blazing and mic’ed up in an iso room isn’t amp in the room and doesn’t feel the same. You’re listening back through the mics, DAW, and studio monitors... but, done right, it’s still inspiring. Just different from sitting in front of the amp and getting all the amp/guitar/speaker/room interaction.

There is an entire generation of guitarists now who may never have played on a “real” amp, and that’s a shame. To me, it’s like only having known a video of someone, but never meeting them in person. Kind of a 2D version of a 3D thing. All recordings are this, so it’s not a bad thing, just not the complete picture, if you see what I’m getting at. Models aren’t the real thing, but they are great fun in and of themselves. I like that Fractal Audio, for instance, has many “FAS” amp models; amps that don’t exist except in model form. That’s one cool direction that modeling can take amplification forward.

The beauty (and frequently used selling point) of modelers is the chance to play through “amps, speakers, effects, and microphones” you might never get a chance to use otherwise. They’re incredibly powerful and convenient, and allow you to do crazy things you can’t do in the real world. Crank a Marshall Major into a 1x12 Alnico Blue cab? A quick waste of a $300 speaker in the real world, but you can do it all day long in a modeler. Vox tone stack in a Matchless, then with a stomp box between the amp amp speaker cab? Not happening, except in a modeler! So there is a unique nature to modelers too.

I’d simply say this... I’d seen professional quality photos of Van Gogh’s Starry Night, Dali’s Persistence of Memory, and the Grand Canyon. Seeing each of them in person, however, altered my appreciation for what the “real thing” actually was. Modelers are great fun, great tools, and great tech. But do yourself the favor of hearing the real amp on the other end of your guitar cord at some point. In the room. It’s self explanatory.

I’ll close this more-than-you-asked-for monologue by saying that I fully expect many who’ve never heard the original to actually prefer the controllability, flexibility, and predictable/repeatable nature of their modeler and it’s sound. And there isn’t a single thing wrong with that, either!
 
RickP said:
The whole amp in the room thing is a perception, and you can indeed get it with digital gear. The biggest takeaway, before I say anything else, is that if you like what you’re hearing and it works in your environment, it’s good! Don’t let anyone (me included) convince you that a tone you’re inspired by lacks anything.

Amplifiers, traditional tube powered preamp/power amp/speaker combinations, inherently sound a certain way. They aren’t full range, and focus on guitar-centric frequencies because they simply can’t do full range with their components. Cranked up, it’s moving air in a way you experience physically, that also interacts sonically with you and the guitar itself. It is “in the room” or in physical proximity to you. That feels a certain way.

I often equate the difference to listening to my amp live, and then listening to my finished, recorded guitar through a modeler. Face it, even having your 4x12 blazing and mic’ed up in an iso room isn’t amp in the room and doesn’t feel the same. You’re listening back through the mics, DAW, and studio monitors... but, done right, it’s still inspiring. Just different from sitting in front of the amp and getting all the amp/guitar/speaker/room interaction.

There is an entire generation of guitarists now who may never have played on a “real” amp, and that’s a shame. To me, it’s like only having known a video of someone, but never meeting them in person. Kind of a 2D version of a 3D thing. All recordings are this, so it’s not a bad thing, just not the complete picture, if you see what I’m getting at. Models aren’t the real thing, but they are great fun in and of themselves. I like that Fractal Audio, for instance, has many “FAS” amp models; amps that don’t exist except in model form. That’s one cool direction that modeling can take amplification forward.

The beauty (and frequently used selling point) of modelers is the chance to play through “amps, speakers, effects, and microphones” you might never get a chance to use otherwise. They’re incredibly powerful and convenient, and allow you to do crazy things you can’t do in the real world. Crank a Marshall Major into a 1x12 Alnico Blue cab? A quick waste of a $300 speaker in the real world, but you can do it all day long in a modeler. Vox tone stack in a Matchless, then with a stomp box between the amp amp speaker cab? Not happening, except in a modeler! So there is a unique nature to modelers too.

I’d simply say this... I’d seen professional quality photos of Van Gogh’s Starry Night, Dali’s Persistence of Memory, and the Grand Canyon. Seeing each of them in person, however, altered my appreciation for what the “real thing” actually was. Modelers are great fun, great tools, and great tech. But do yourself the favor of hearing the real amp on the other end of your guitar cord at some point. In the room. It’s self explanatory.

I’ll close this more-than-you-asked-for monologue by saying that I fully expect many who’ve never heard the original to actually prefer the controllability, flexibility, and predictable/repeatable nature of their modeler and it’s sound. And there isn’t a single thing wrong with that, either!
Click to expand...
Well said!
 
I'm with @RickP
I will only add that with the Kemper I've been enjoying the tones and sound with a Yamaha DXR10, and Bose L1 MII. They sound great and fill a small to medium size (300 people) room with ease. But... on stage there's no AITR "feeling".
Recently I got a Kemper Kabinet, and along with the associated cabinet imprints the AITR is back baby!
Good old fashioned pant flapping and natural feedback.
Love it!
 
Ah, Rick, once again we are in agreement!

First, the hole in my amp area is...yeah, an AC30 style amp (whether vintage AC30 or some modern re-creation, which IMHO is clearly harder to make on-point than it at first appears, since there are so few great ones on the market currently (there are lots of pretty good copies, but the real ones really are magical).

Second, I've been a dyed-in-the-wool tube amp fanatic ever since, well, 1966 when I got my first amp, an Ampeg Reverberocket II, that I traded in on a black panel Fender Bassman head and cab in '68, and since then...well, lots of tube amps!

I've tried a ton of modelers, and have found only two that sounded decent enough that I'd use them on an ad track without feeling shameful: Universal Audio's UAD '57 Deluxe, and their UAD Ampeg B-15 Portaflex. They offer lots of other models (and I have tried.a bunch of them) but those two are the only keepers. PRS' recent Waves models are good, but I'd rather record my real PRS amps.

The hardware modelers are also very good for live use, and I'd certainly use something like the Axe FX or Kemper if I had to drag a bunch of gear around to a club gig, something I stopped doing years and years ago, but that's only because my back is just too freaking broken from aging to handle dragging 100 pounds of tube amp gear into a club. However, I will (and have often done) drag a head to an outside studio session if there's a good cabinet available. I'm not dragging in a cabinet. That's over the line. Hey, 'maturity' does impose a few limitations! ;)
 
@RickP the same generation that know only digital amps, don’t even know what vinyl and CD’s sound like. Well most of them.

A tube amp is like a classic sports car, yes it can be a bumpy ride at times, the steering might not be so accurate, the suspension a little loose, the seats smell strange, but when you hit that accelerator (gas pedal) and you hear that engine note for the first time it’s addictive.

Maybe it takes time to dial in a sound that you want, but most of us here come from generations that have a little patience and are willing to give things time.

The present generation expect “instant gratification”. My 12 year old son is a prime example. It seems to me that if something doesn’t happen instantly for a lot of youngsters that they lose interest and their head goes back into social media!

Says the guy that visits this Forum multiple times a day. But hey you guys are fun to hang out with, even if it’s a virtual hang out.
 
dmatthews said:
I'm with @RickP
Recently I got a Kemper Kabinet, and along with the associated cabinet imprints the AITR is back baby!
Good old fashioned pant flapping and natural feedback.
Love it!
Click to expand...
I'm going to have to try a Kemper one day. I started with digital on several bad versions from Scholz (though it was cool at the time), ART, and POD... all less than useful for me. The Eleven Rack was the first modeler that I eventually actually gigged with, and wasn't embarrassed at the sound. Research at the time lead me to Fractal and Kemper, with more live musicians using the Fractal, so I went that way and have been very happy with the performance and, especially, the support. Cliff Chase comes out with updates at a steady rate, always adding value to the package. From what I have learned over the last 9 years gigging FAS gear, it is the real deal in digital. The only other one I hear about in the same conversation is Kemper!

LSchefman said:
Ah, Rick, once again we are in agreement!
First, the hole in my amp area is...yeah, an AC30 style amp (whether vintage AC30 or some modern re-creation, which IMHO is clearly harder to make on-point than it at first appears, since there are so few great ones on the market currently (there are lots of pretty good copies, but the real ones really are magical).
Second, I've been a dyed-in-the-wool tube amp fanatic ever since, well, 1966 when I got my first amp, an Ampeg Reverberocket II, that I traded in on a black panel Fender Bassman head and cab in '68, and since then...well, lots of tube amps!
I've tried a ton of modelers, and have found only two that sounded decent enough that I'd use them on an ad track without feeling shameful: Universal Audio's UAD '57 Deluxe, and their UAD Ampeg B-15 Portaflex. They offer lots of other models (and I have tried.a bunch of them) but those two are the only keepers. PRS' recent Waves models are good, but I'd rather record my real PRS amps.
The hardware modelers are also very good for live use, and I'd certainly use something like the Axe FX or Kemper if I had to drag a bunch of gear around to a club gig, something I stopped doing years and years ago, but that's only because my back is just too freaking broken from aging to handle dragging 100 pounds of tube amp gear into a club. However, I will (and have often done) drag a head to an outside studio session if there's a good cabinet available. I'm not dragging in a cabinet. That's over the line. Hey, 'maturity' does impose a few limitations! ;)
Click to expand...
I think our experiences in life have been pretty similar... tubes being the first thing we knew, and spending the vast majority of our career actually working with the equipment in places where the quality of sound and road-worthy nature of the gear mattered. That can tend to form some pretty hard line preferences, and so it should be! People, like you, who actually work with their gear on a regular basis are the people whose opinions interest me when I'm gear researching. It's that "proven in the fire" sort of thing that many, likely most, internet forums lack. Sometimes it seems the more inexperienced or incorrect a forumite is, the more snarky and abusive they are about it. And that's one of the reasons I like the folks here. Everyone from the bedroom player to the touring pro just shares what they know, and I find that refreshing these days.

As hard as it is to imagine, I never played through an AC30, or Vox of any kind. As big of a Beatles, Queen, and Petty fan as I've been, that's an odd hole in the experience roster. I have used the AC15 model, and liked it, along with the Morgan AC20 Deluxe model, so I do think it's a sound particular to the circuit that they're all based on, and something I'll find useful and inspiring. I'll be fixing that next Thursday, if FedEx holds up their end of the bargain. I couldn't quite swing an early-mid 60s version, which I would love to have done, but did find one of the 1990 30th Anniversary ones. From what I can tell from gigging folks, the early 90s Rose Morris ones and the mid to late 90s Korg units are the most authentic sounding of "the rest." If it turns out to be something I like, I may add a Beatles invasion era version to my bucket list projects.

Alnus Rubra said:
@RickP the same generation that know only digital amps, don’t even know what vinyl and CD’s sound like. Well most of them.

A tube amp is like a classic sports car, yes it can be a bumpy ride at times, the steering might not be so accurate, the suspension a little loose, the seats smell strange, but when you hit that accelerator (gas pedal) and you hear that engine note for the first time it’s addictive.

Maybe it takes time to dial in a sound that you want, but most of us here come from generations that have a little patience and are willing to give things time.

The present generation expect “instant gratification”. My 12 year old son is a prime example. It seems to me that if something doesn’t happen instantly for a lot of youngsters that they lose interest and their head goes back into social media!

Says the guy that visits this Forum multiple times a day. But hey you guys are fun to hang out with, even if it’s a virtual hang out.
Click to expand...
Yes, firmly in the "you have to try it to understand it" family of life experiences! I love the new tech as much as anyone, and I use it where it works, but I am so grateful to have grown up in a more foundational era. Most of the most elite digital gear is attempting to emulate the amps, effects, and processors of the 60 and 70s, and reissue gear is forever being put out there. I think that says a lot about the quality of the sounds created then, and the creativity of people at the time. The music, musicians, and gear have stood the test of time. I fear there won't be much left to be emulated in the future from this generation, but sparks of hope do fly up from time to time. I'm sure some thought the same of my era too!
 
RickP said:
I couldn't quite swing an early-mid 60s version, which I would love to have done, but did find one of the 1990 30th Anniversary ones. From what I can tell from gigging folks, the early 90s Rose Morris ones and the mid to late 90s Korg units are the most authentic sounding of "the rest." If it turns out to be something I like, I may add a Beatles invasion era version to my bucket list projects.
Click to expand...

I played through the originals when they were new amps from around 1965 on. They had an inspiring, magical sound. I think of it as "kerannngggg". I still know it when I hear it; the tone sits in a mental sweet spot, though I can't quite find words to describe it. I guess it's one of those "know it when you hear it" things. The last time I heard an early one, though, was in Nashville about 15 years ago, and again, I was floored. I looked halfheartedly for one when I got back, but didn't find 'the one' and bought a Bad Cat, but the model I had didn't have the EF86 preamp tube. Still, it did a lot of AC things well.

Recently, the bug has bitten again from time to time. I got sidetracked by a project the last time I bought an amp, and went for a Fillmore, which I don't regret, I've used it on ads and made money with it. Still, an AC30 would be pretty darn nice! I've thought about a Matchless, a Morgan, one of the reproduction AC30s from JMI (the videos sound very, very authentic), Vox's handwired model, etc.

I also have a lot of recent experience with the 1990 30th Anniversary model AC30 - one of my closest studio composer pals has one. His has Greenbacks, but for a more authentic sound it clearly needs Blues. The Greenbacks make it impossible to compare fairly with the originals, but that's how he likes his amp set up, so I haven't given him a 'WTF were you thinking' rant. ;)
 
LSchefman said:
I also have a lot of recent experience with the 1990 30th Anniversary model AC30 - one of my closest studio composer pals has one. His has Greenbacks, but for a more authentic sound it clearly needs Blues. The Greenbacks make it impossible to compare fairly with the originals, but that's how he likes his amp set up, so I haven't given him a 'WTF were you thinking' rant. ;)
Click to expand...

Yes, this one has the original Vox-Celestion green backs in it, which I read had something to do with controversial sources of Alnico at the time, or something along those lines. I have a cab with 2 Blues in it, so I’ll be able to do the comparison. I’ve also never used those Blues, but love the way my Fender sounded through that cab, so I’m thinking I’ll be swapping out some speakers in the future. Always good to have a couple more greenbacks around for the HXDAs!
 
RickP said:
Yes, this one has the original Vox-Celestion green backs in it, which I read had something to do with controversial sources of Alnico at the time, or something along those lines. I have a cab with 2 Blues in it, so I’ll be able to do the comparison. I’ve also never used those Blues, but love the way my Fender sounded through that cab, so I’m thinking I’ll be swapping out some speakers in the future. Always good to have a couple more greenbacks around for the HXDAs!
Click to expand...

I think with the Blues, you will love the amp. It sounds very good with Greenies, though. I just like the way an AC30 works with Blues.
 
I love amps, and I think if I had the space and means, I'd probably still own a few tube amps, but unfortunately my situation doesn't allow me to.
I really like my Fractal gear, because it at least fills in the sonic gap with lots of sounds to choose from, and I really only get to play later at night, so it works well.
But, man would I love to have a bunch of 4x12s in a row with some of the heads I used to own sitting on them. They definitely made me happy while they were here.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

nussbajh
Pedals and Amps
2 3
Replies
43
Views
1K
László
László
László
Amps On The Radar Screen?
2 3
Replies
43
Views
732
GGJJGG
G
Steve's addiction
Little Walter amps
Replies
3
Views
120
László
László
BGood
Peavey Classic 20MH
Replies
9
Views
151
SinSir
SinSir
JasonE
Ever have a day when you just hate the sound coming out of your amp?
2 3
Replies
50
Views
719
bodia
bodia
Back
Top