Why/why not. PRS w/soapbar pups

[Andrew Paul]

I would like to get peoples opinions that have used PRS guitars with soapbar pickups. Your thoughts on tone, clean tones, dirty tones etc. How usable are they and what genre of music do you use them?

Thanks in advance

 

[RickP]

I don’t know, for certain, which pickups PRS uses on which P90 guitars, though I do know there’s more than one.

Generally, people look to the P90 when they want the edge and sparkle of a single coil, with more output and a grittier tone; think Tele bridge pickup on steroids. The sound can be very aggressive, but it also has a round, sweet clarity when dialed back; a bit like a mini-Humbucker without the polished feel.

I have a 594 Soapbar that has, to the best of my knowledge (haven’t removed them), Seymour Duncan Antiquity P90s installed from the factory. I’ve had many P90 guitars over the years but the tone has never prompted me to keep them. This guitar changed all of that! I always liked the sounds of old Les Paul Jrs and Specials and found that most recent P90s, especially the hum-cancelling varieties, sounded weak and neutered by comparison. I had a set by Lindy Fralin that were good, but were in a not-so-great guitar. In the 594, these Antiquity pickups are the real deal. Absolutely nasty when you want rock aggressiveness, yet sweet as a old jazz box when you play them nicely. As a bonus, they are wired to hum cancel when in the middle selector position, and still sound good.

On the down side, they’re single coil and noise comes with the territory. Like in any single coil guitar, you just need to account for that. My experience with hum cancelling circuits has taught me that it’s better to live with the noise... the quality of the tone is worth the minor inconvenience.

They’re really good for any musical style, but shine in classic rock and big clean tones. The 594 Limited Edition Soapbar is, hands down, the premiere example of what a P90 equipped guitar can be.

 

[dmatthews]

I don’t know, for certain, which pickups PRS uses on which P90 guitars, though I do know there’s more than one.

Generally, people look to the P90 when they want the edge and sparkle of a single coil, with more output and a grittier tone; think Tele bridge pickup on steroids. The sound can be very aggressive, but it also has a round, sweet clarity when dialed back; a bit like a mini-Humbucker without the polished feel.

I have a 594 Soapbar that has, to the best of my knowledge (haven’t removed them), Seymour Duncan Antiquity P90s installed from the factory. I’ve had many P90 guitars over the years but the tone has never prompted me to keep them. This guitar changed all of that! I always liked the sounds of old Les Paul Jrs and Specials, and most P90s, especially the hum-cancelling varieties, sounded weak and neutered by comparison. I had a set by Lindy Fralin that were good, but were in a not-so-great guitar. In the 594, these Antiquity pickups are the real deal. Absolutely nasty when you want rock aggressiveness, yet sweet as a old jazz box when you play them nicely. As a bonus, they are wired to hum cancel when in the middle selector position, and still sound good.

On the down side, they’re single coil and noise comes with the territory. Like in any single coil guitar, you just need to account for that. My experience with hum cancelling circuits has taught me that it’s better to live with the noise... the quality of the tone is worth the minor inconvenience.

They’re really good for any musical style, but shine in classic rock and big clean tones. The 594 Limited Edition Soapbar is, hands down, the premiere example of what a P90 equipped guitar can be.

^^^ What @RickP said^^^
I have a 2018 594 soapy as well, and it is a total keeper. Last few practices and gigs I took it and the Silver Sky. The soapy gets played a lot.
Cover band rock guy, the guitar is amazing.

 

[andy474x]

I have a Mira 25th, it’s a nice guitar, but I think P90’s would do best with a maple capped guitar, vs the all mahogany body like the Mira. It’s great crunchy, but can be a little too warm and midrangey played clean.

 

[BrianC]

I want to like them. Im sure I would be cooler if I did. But.....

not for me

 

[TwelfthTangent]

I don’t know, for certain, which pickups PRS uses on which P90 guitars, though I do know there’s more than one.

Generally, people look to the P90 when they want the edge and sparkle of a single coil, with more output and a grittier tone; think Tele bridge pickup on steroids. The sound can be very aggressive, but it also has a round, sweet clarity when dialed back; a bit like a mini-Humbucker without the polished feel.

I have a 594 Soapbar that has, to the best of my knowledge (haven’t removed them), Seymour Duncan Antiquity P90s installed from the factory. I’ve had many P90 guitars over the years but the tone has never prompted me to keep them. This guitar changed all of that! I always liked the sounds of old Les Paul Jrs and Specials and found that most recent P90s, especially the hum-cancelling varieties, sounded weak and neutered by comparison. I had a set by Lindy Fralin that were good, but were in a not-so-great guitar. In the 594, these Antiquity pickups are the real deal. Absolutely nasty when you want rock aggressiveness, yet sweet as a old jazz box when you play them nicely. As a bonus, they are wired to hum cancel when in the middle selector position, and still sound good.

On the down side, they’re single coil and noise comes with the territory. Like in any single coil guitar, you just need to account for that. My experience with hum cancelling circuits has taught me that it’s better to live with the noise... the quality of the tone is worth the minor inconvenience.

They’re really good for any musical style, but shine in classic rock and big clean tones. The 594 Limited Edition Soapbar is, hands down, the premiere example of what a P90 equipped guitar can be.

Completely agree with this^^^^. Great for a dirtier rock or metal tone. I don’t think they are articulate enough for modern metal, but that’s not their “thing”. Clean tones are more rounded and bell-like compared to traditional single coils. Have a Custom 22 with 3 P90s, and the in-between tones on that are great. Sure the pickups are a little noisy, but so am I, so it all just blends in.

 

[Mark Ray]

I had an original run Custom22 Soapbar. Loved that guitar! My band loved that guitar-it sat so right in the live mix. Unfortunately I had to sell it along with some others during a period of unemployment. I would get another in a heartbeat!

 

[László]

Like Mark Ray, I also had a CU22 Soapbar. Also had an original McCarty Soapbar with a rosewood neck. And currently have a 594 Soapbar.

Sooo...you wanna know the difference between a 594 with soapbar pickups and my 594 with humbuckers? Just so happens, I recorded both guitars on one of my little tunes with each guitar swapping leads through my DG30 amp. Might as well listen to the guitars in action, as opposed to me yakking about it.

I've posted this before, several times, but not in this section of the Forum.

First melodic line is taken by the Soapy. Second melodic line halfway in is taken by the Humbucker version. The rhythm part is the Soapy.

All other things in the track, from amp settings to pedal settings to mix settings are the exact same. My playing is less than stellar, but I think I did a nice job writing the tune, so I don't feel too bad about the result. Here's the head-to-head in the context of a more fully instrumented project, as opposed to some solo noodling. I'd suggest using good monitors or good headphones so you can really hear the difference well.

https://soundcloud.com/lschefman/messy-20

My comment is that the resonant frequency of the Soapy is more in the midrange, which gives it a more horn-like tone, and the resonant frequency of the Humbucker is more in the treble range, giving it a different tonal balance. The resonant frequency of the Soapy seems to have more amplitude, and the resonant frequency of the Humbucker less amplitude.

Resonant frequency is the point where the high frequency rolloff begins. Many transducers like pickups have a peak exactly at that frequency. The greater the amplitude of the peak, the greater the resonance.

 

[László]

The other observation I would make is that the Soapbar pickups that come on the 594 - Duncan Antiquities - are much more like the Soapbar pickups on my 1965 SG Special than the ones that came on my earlier PRS Soapbar models.

They're warmer and more resonant. I'll leave the value judgment about 'best ones' alone at this point, because that will vary from project to project.

The Soapies on my CU22 and McCarty Soapbar models (1998 and 2006) were brighter and more modern sounding, and with a frequency response that was less resonant and more like other single coil pickups, just hotter.

So a big question one must ask - as with humbuckers - is, "Which soapbar pickups are we actually talking about?" The answer to this question matters.

My 594 Soapbar has helped me on quite a few important gigs since I bought it. Clients love the tone. Which, you know, to me is a thing.

 

[TwelfthTangent]

Love the track! That’s a great showcase of both guitars. Both pickups sound fantastic as you have them, but there is an extra character to the soapbar, a gritty texture and a snarl when you dig in that just makes it sound even more authentic to your phrasing on that track. And really, the humbucker version sounds so good I wouldn’t have thought anything if they weren’t in the track back-to-back. Well done!

 

[László]

Love the track! That’s a great showcase of both guitars. Both pickups sound fantastic as you have them, but there is an extra character to the soapbar, a gritty texture and a snarl when you dig in that just makes it sound even more authentic to your phrasing on that track. And really, the humbucker version sounds so good I wouldn’t have thought anything if they weren’t in the track back-to-back. Well done!

Thanks! I love the things that the Soapbars do, and your description of how they sound is right on.

 

[Serious Poo]

I love soapbar equipped guitars, and currently own 3 PRS’s with them. One is a 1999 McCarty Soapbar that has turned into my primary songwriting tool. It just has that special something that causes me to come up with new ideas. My old band used to play a lot of classic rock, blues and prog and the McCarty soapbar covered those genres really well - especially through my main amp at the time, a Dr. Z Route 66.

I’ve since added two soapbar-equipped private stocks to my studio, where I play mostly a blend of shoegaze, modern metal and instrumental guitar music that combines elements from bands like Alcest, Ride, Catherine Wheel, Devin Townsend, Keith Merrow and Plini. The stock pickups in my 1999 McCarty are OEM Duncans that PRS’s used to ship with, and they run pretty hot. However, turning the guitar volume down 1/10th of a turn cleans them right up. The soapbars in my private stocks are Duncan Antiquities which I believe have a little less output but sound fat and warm. I ‘ve found that the soapbars are exceptionally good sounding with modern high gain amps - single note lines sound clear and chord have the definition that only single coil pickups can provide. That said, soapbars are inherently noisy and will hiss, rumble and feedback at higher gain levels if you haven’t developed good technique or haven’t learned how to control the sound coming out of your rig. Muting unplayed strings with both hands, rolling the volume back when you’re not playing, using a high quality noise gate, lifting your fingers off the strings when shifting positions, using string wraps to help mute open strings - those are all requirements if you want to use soapbars with higher gain levels. It’s a worthwhile trade off to me as I love the sounds they get.

To be clear, when I refer to modern high gain I’m referring to amps with extended range EQ and gain structures. I primarily use a rack system equipped with a bunch of Synergy preamps including a Morgan AC, Fryette Deliverance, Bogner Uberschall and Powerball, Engl Savage and Soldano SLO modules. My main dedicated amps these days are a 65 Amps London and a Driftwood Purple Nightmare. The higher-gain amps are capable of absolutely ludicrous levels of distortion and have a much wider EQ range than more classic amp designs like modded Marshalls and Boogies. Due to their wide sonic range, soapbars can sound exceptionally good through these amps if you take the precautions I mentioned above.

Hope that helps!

 

[El Fenix]

Some people forget the first few Black Sabbath albums were made with P90s.

 

[Andrew Paul]

I don’t know, for certain, which pickups PRS uses on which P90 guitars, though I do know there’s more than one.

Generally, people look to the P90 when they want the edge and sparkle of a single coil, with more output and a grittier tone; think Tele bridge pickup on steroids. The sound can be very aggressive, but it also has a round, sweet clarity when dialed back; a bit like a mini-Humbucker without the polished feel.

I have a 594 Soapbar that has, to the best of my knowledge (haven’t removed them), Seymour Duncan Antiquity P90s installed from the factory. I’ve had many P90 guitars over the years but the tone has never prompted me to keep them. This guitar changed all of that! I always liked the sounds of old Les Paul Jrs and Specials and found that most recent P90s, especially the hum-cancelling varieties, sounded weak and neutered by comparison. I had a set by Lindy Fralin that were good, but were in a not-so-great guitar. In the 594, these Antiquity pickups are the real deal. Absolutely nasty when you want rock aggressiveness, yet sweet as a old jazz box when you play them nicely. As a bonus, they are wired to hum cancel when in the middle selector position, and still sound good.

On the down side, they’re single coil and noise comes with the territory. Like in any single coil guitar, you just need to account for that. My experience with hum cancelling circuits has taught me that it’s better to live with the noise... the quality of the tone is worth the minor inconvenience.

They’re really good for any musical style, but shine in classic rock and big clean tones. The 594 Limited Edition Soapbar is, hands down, the premiere example of what a P90 equipped guitar can be.

Thank you so much for the write up. I’m concluding I could use a P90 PRS in my lineup.

 

[Andrew Paul]

Like Mark Ray, I also had a CU22 Soapbar. Also had an original McCarty Soapbar with a rosewood neck. And currently have a 594 Soapbar.

Sooo...you wanna know the difference between a 594 with soapbar pickups and my 594 with humbuckers? Just so happens, I recorded both guitars on one of my little tunes with each guitar swapping leads through my DG30 amp. Might as well listen to the guitars in action, as opposed to me yakking about it.

I've posted this before, several times, but not in this section of the Forum.

First melodic line is taken by the Soapy. Second melodic line halfway in is taken by the Humbucker version. The rhythm part is the Soapy.

All other things in the track, from amp settings to pedal settings to mix settings are the exact same. My playing is less than stellar, but I think I did a nice job writing the tune, so I don't feel too bad about the result. Here's the head-to-head in the context of a more fully instrumented project, as opposed to some solo noodling. I'd suggest using good monitors or good headphones so you can really hear the difference well.

https://soundcloud.com/lschefman/messy-20

My comment is that the resonant frequency of the Soapy is more in the midrange, which gives it a more horn-like tone, and the resonant frequency of the Humbucker is more in the treble range, giving it a different tonal balance. The resonant frequency of the Soapy seems to have more amplitude, and the resonant frequency of the Humbucker less amplitude.

Resonant frequency is the point where the high frequency rolloff begins. Many transducers like pickups have a peak exactly at that frequency. The greater the amplitude of the peak, the greater the resonance.

Thank you so much for your replies Les. Sound recording is very helpful and very good! I think it will not hurt to have a P90 PRS in my arsenal.

 

[Andrew Paul]

I love soapbar equipped guitars, and currently own 3 PRS’s with them. One is a 1999 McCarty Soapbar that has turned into my primary songwriting tool. It just has that special something that causes me to come up with new ideas. My old band used to play a lot of classic rock, blues and prog and the McCarty soapbar covered those genres really well - especially through my main amp at the time, a Dr. Z Route 66.

I’ve since added two soapbar-equipped private stocks to my studio, where I play mostly a blend of shoegaze, modern metal and instrumental guitar music that combines elements from bands like Alcest, Ride, Catherine Wheel, Devin Townsend, Keith Merrow and Plini. The stock pickups in my 1999 McCarty are OEM Duncans that PRS’s used to ship with, and they run pretty hot. However, turning the guitar volume down 1/10th of a turn cleans them right up. The soapbars in my private stocks are Duncan Antiquities which I believe have a little less output but sound fat and warm. I ‘ve found that the soapbars are exceptionally good sounding with modern high gain amps - single note lines sound clear and chord have the definition that only single coil pickups can provide. That said, soapbars are inherently noisy and will hiss, rumble and feedback at higher gain levels if you haven’t developed good technique or haven’t learned how to control the sound coming out of your rig. Muting unplayed strings with both hands, rolling the volume back when you’re not playing, using a high quality noise gate, lifting your fingers off the strings when shifting positions, using string wraps to help mute open strings - those are all requirements if you want to use soapbars with higher gain levels. It’s a worthwhile trade off to me as I love the sounds they get.

To be clear, when I refer to modern high gain I’m referring to amps with extended range EQ and gain structures. I primarily use a rack system equipped with a bunch of Synergy preamps including a Morgan AC, Fryette Deliverance, Bogner Uberschall and Powerball, Engl Savage and Soldano SLO modules. My main dedicated amps these days are a 65 Amps London and a Driftwood Purple Nightmare. The higher-gain amps are capable of absolutely ludicrous levels of distortion and have a much wider EQ range than more classic amp designs like modded Marshalls and Boogies. Due to their wide sonic range, soapbars can sound exceptionally good through these amps if you take the precautions I mentioned above.

Hope that helps!

Thank you so much for this reply it helps immensely. I think my mind is made up and I will be getting P90 PRS.

 

[László]

That said, soapbars are inherently noisy and will hiss, rumble and feedback at higher gain levels if you haven’t developed good technique or haven’t learned how to control the sound coming out of your rig. Muting unplayed strings with both hands, rolling the volume back when you’re not playing, using a high quality noise gate, lifting your fingers off the strings when shifting positions, using string wraps to help mute open strings - those are all requirements if you want to use soapbars with higher gain levels. It’s a worthwhile trade off to me as I love the sounds they get.

This is great info. I think it's really helpful advice to folks who play higher gain stuff with Soapbars.

Re: gates, as you know, even the very best ones on six figure recording consoles can cut off the note attack for a few milliseconds if not set very carefully, so anyone using a gate needs to really experiment with it to avoid that problem. Still, as you say, they can be very useful!

 

[László]

Thank you so much for your replies Les. Sound recording is very helpful and very good! I think it will not hurt to have a P90 PRS in my arsenal.

A clip is worth 1000 of my crazy posts!

The only drawback of P-90s is that with lighting dimmers, appliances, breaker boxes and monitors, etc., in various places in a building generating electromagnetic interference, you sometimes have to turn in a circle to find a spot that isn't noisy. That doesn't bother me, I can always find that spot, but it's good to be aware of it.

If the guitar gets noisy, just turn a few degrees to the right or left, and bingo, you're in a quiet zone.

It's good to have a guitar with Soapbars - people obsess over small differences between PRSes that are actually kind of hard to distinguish, at least to the listener, but one with Soapbar pickups is going to be that much more different than some other choices.

 

[Andrew Paul]

A clip is worth 1000 of my crazy posts!

The only drawback of P-90s is that with lighting dimmers, appliances, breaker boxes and monitors, etc., in various places in a building generating electromagnetic interference, you sometimes have to turn in a circle to find a spot that isn't noisy. That doesn't bother me, I can always find that spot, but it's good to be aware of it.

If the guitar gets noisy, just turn a few degrees to the right or left, and bingo, you're in a quiet zone.

It's good to have a guitar with Soapbars - people obsess over small differences between PRSes that are actually kind of hard to distinguish, at least to the listener, but one with Soapbar pickups is going to be that much more different than some other choices.

I am looking for an entirely different tones, my MEV covers pretty much everything. I figure P 90s is something I’ve never played after all these years and and may some new excitement to playing electric guitar for me. I don’t play very high gain stuff to begin with, just clean and creamy distortion sounds. I don’t believe noise will be much of a factor. I think it will be different enough from everything else I’ve owned or own now.

 

[swede71]

Sounds great both clean and distorted but....very noisy.There is a trick though,especially for distorted sounds,if you have a guitar with 2 P90s and individual volume knobs.You set volume for bridge pickup on 10 and and volume for neck pickup on 5.Use the middle position and you will a slightly warmer sound but still with a lot of bite plus no noise.