The definition of "vintage"

[shinksma]

Someone asked me the model year of my new-to-me McRosie. 1998 as it turns out.

The question (and answer) got me thinking. This is not too serious a thread, but I think it deserves some pondering:

The Gibson Les Paul was first made in 1952. By the mid-1970s, the 1950s LPs were considered "vintage" guitars, and were often the go-to instruments for guitar heroes of that era. Similar story for Strats and Teles.

So these guitars were around 20 years old, bit more or less, when they attained the cache of "vintage". Or was there a different term tossed around at the time, like "classic" or perhaps just "original design"?

My McRosie is 22 years old. Is it considered a "vintage" guitar?

Is my 1990 CE or my wife's Bass-5 (from 1989 IIRC) considered vintage?

PRS has now been making electric guitars for far longer than Gibson or Fender had been by the 1970s. (Yes, I am ignoring their long history with acoustic instruments.)

My question is:

Has the musical instrument community simply accepted that "vintage" means anything made in the first decade or two of the existence of the electric guitar? i.e. 1950s and 1960s only? Is the generally accepted decline in quality at both Gibson and Fender in the 1970s partly to blame for that attitude?

Or are there now "vintage" BC Rich models out there?

Not trying to sound like a cheerleader too much, but PRS has been making quality instruments for 35 years (as a "company"), long enough for anything made within the first five years to qualify for the "vintage" tag according to Reverb.com (I found it on the Internet, so it must be true!):

While an antique is defined as an object over 100 years old, there's no strict chronological definition of what makes something vintage. Typically, though, guitars around 30 years old or older fall into that category, and even newer instruments will often be labeled as such by sellers. In the wine world, vintage can refer to anything of a certain quality, and there are some who take the same perspective with guitars. On Reverb, we usually consider anything made prior to 1980 as being vintage.

https://reverb.com/page/vintage-guitar-faq

So, do you consider your mid-late-1980s and early-1990s era PRSi to be "vintage" instruments, or just excellent guitars that happen to be a bit older than others?

 

[veinbuster]

I think vintage for guitars is mostly marketing done years ago.

Personally, I don’t think of any PRS made in the factory to be vintage, though I might change my mind if I had a double digit serial one in my hands. Plenty of collectables though.

For electrics from the older companies, I feel anything pre 63-64 is vintage.

I mostly ignore the arguments, which get quite heated.

 

[sergiodeblanc]

I’d agree it’s mostly a marketing thing, but I guess I’d also say it’d be fair to compare it to automobiles, where it’s considered that after 20 years it’s “vintage”, and after 25 you can get special plates and insurance.

Not that the meaning really means anything to me... but I guess I throw up a little bit less in my mouth if the guitar has the old, smaller water slide decal. That’s at least better than someone calling them “pre-factory” which should be punishable by ti!tty twisters.

 

[CandidPicker]

At the risk of being part of a debate, allow me to state my viewpoint in hopes that you'll grasp the meaning of what's being said...

"Vintage," IMHO, is any guitar at least over 20 to 25 years old that has seen many hours of actual usage time, not just guitars that were collected and stored in a closet for the duration. Vintage guitars must have seen some time in use.

The grade of which vintage guitars might be considered is, 1) the originality of parts, 2) how well the guitars were maintained, 3) the condition of the case or gig bag, 4) the environment in which the guitars existed (e.g. dank basement, dry storage area, smoky room, family pets).

The above conditions help discern how vintage an older guitar might be. Compare this to people: If when we were younger we had too much sun, smoke, or "unhealthy living" conditions, we might look more like Keith Richards more quickly than we might later in life. Not to say Keef isn't well-preserved. Just saying Keef is a vintage guitarist, who likely owns vintage guitars to match his personality...

 

[Rider1260]

For cars and motorcycles 25 years is when you can get vintage plates in Illinois.
I have kind of used that as a guide 25 years + can be called vintage. It might not have vintage value.
I use two guides 10+ years on a new guitar to break even.
20+ years for the value to go up and start to be collectible.

 

[Black Plaid]

I believe "vintage" refers to anything made before I started buying guitars.

 

[]-[@n$0Ma☩!©]

For me, the ‘Vintage’ label applies through ‘91; when Sweet Switches and Brazilian fretboards phased out - along with Sigs and LE’s.

 

[shinksma]

Some interesting thoughts, so far!

"Vintage," IMHO, is any guitar at least over 20 to 25 years old that has seen many hours of actual usage time, not just guitars that were collected and stored in a closet for the duration. Vintage guitars must have seen some time in use.

The grade of which vintage guitars might be considered is, 1) the originality of parts, 2) how well the guitars were maintained, 3) the condition of the case or gig bag, 4) the environment in which the guitars existed (e.g. dank basement, dry storage area, smoky room, family pets).

and

For cars and motorcycles 25 years is when you can get vintage plates in Illinois.

So that brings up slightly competing qualifiers, in my mind. A "vintage" car tends to sell at auction for a lot more money if it is essentially mint, minimally driven (but maintained).

Does a guitar also bring more value at auction the more "mint" the condition? I would say yes, except for guitars worn down by use by a famous player - i.e. David (not Dave) Gilmour's black strat. In those cases it isn't the "vintage" quality, it is the owner/usage. I suspect a new-looking guitar also owned by Mr. Gilmour would not get the same auction price.

Personally, I don’t think of any PRS made in the factory to be vintage, though I might change my mind if I had a double digit serial one in my hands.

My wife's 1987 (corrected the year) Bass-5 was the 47th bass built by PRS. But it is a fair bit beat up. Does that make it vintage? Or just old and beat up?

Please continue discussing!

 

[dmatthews]

I am the only vintage thing in my house

 

[Steve's addiction]

It's vintage if I'm trying to sell it and just old if I'm buying it.

 

[bodia]

If it's not older than me, it's not Vintage! So, basically, if it was around in my time, I don't consider it vintage. If I were 20, and it was made in '85, then I would call that vintage.

 

[sergiodeblanc]

For me, the ‘Vintage’ label applies through ‘91; when Sweet Switches and Brazilian fretboards phased out - along with Sigs and LE’s.

I could carry that through to 1994 for CE’s and EG’s, personally. Although for everything else I guess I’d just call it “Annapolis” era.

 

[RickP]

I got an education on this when I married into a family of antique dealers. When I called something vintage an antique, class was in session.

I was told (and your opinion of this is certainly open to discussion) that vintage was something 20 or more years old. The term antique refers to something at least 100 years old. Neither of these things are to be confused with collectible, which may be nearly any age.

Over the decades since that fateful day, I have found that wisdom to be fairly universally recognized by the professionals in any particular sale of used merchandise. Admittedly, there is always some fudging on what is what, especially when a potential sale hinges on the description!

 

[Tucson Thump]

I hereby formally request to be referred to as "vintage" and not "antique".

 

[]-[@n$0Ma☩!©]

If I live to be 100, call me anything you like.

 

[bodia]

If I live to be 100, call me anything you like.

Including Hands?

 

[]-[@n$0Ma☩!©]

Including Hands?

I'll be 100. I won't hear you anyway. Or be able aim worth a damn...

 

[matonanjin]

It is really very straight forward. If someone else owns it and it is older, it is "vintage" and probably worth more. If I own it and it's older it is just old.

 

[CandidPicker]

If I live to be 100, call me anything you like.

Except late for dinner!

 

[Herr Squid]

A 50's Les Paul wasn't "vintage" in the 70's, it was just old.

It wasn't until the 80's that word really started getting around that those guitars were Something Special. Even then the rock world was going crazy for superstrats and the 50's Les Pauls were still "old," or maybe "quaint" depending on who you asked.

After the glitz 'n' glamor of 80's butt rock faded away, the guitar world started to fixate on the "vintage" thing, and we've been really really retro ever since.

Now that term is in the eye of the seller.

I still won't accept a 70's 3-bolt Strat as vintage. Nope.