Phase iii tuners or phase ii

[316ms]

I keep finding guitars with wraps around the pegs with these tuners. They are designed to be used as " string thru hole in the peg, tighten thumbnail screw ,tune" what is that makes one want to wrap around the peg? I can not make sense of it but I am not opposed to learning something either.

 

[Tone-y]

I only have experience of phase II tuners and I've never wrapped. I guess if you wanted to increase the break angle over the nut you could wrap once or twice. I can't think of any other reason to do it.

 

[316ms]

I only have experience of phase II tuners and I've never wrapped. I guess if you wanted to increase the break angle over the nut you could wrap once or twice. I can't think of any other reason to do it.

How does that increase the break angle? It's still routed exactly the same right?

 

[toothace]

How does that increase the break angle? It's still routed exactly the same right?

You'd have to do a couple wraps below the string hole before pushing the string through and locking it...

 

[Tone-y]

How does that increase the break angle? It's still routed exactly the same right?

To be honest, as I've never done it on mine, I'm having to imagine how it would work in relation to how it works on other tuners. If you wind the string around the post and feed the string downwards as it wraps around, its final position is lower on the post than it would be with no wraps at all. Therefore the break angle over the nut is increased.

Like I said, I've never done this on my phase II. But I do tend to wrap and feed down on non-locking machine heads, but this is more to do with making the string secure than increasing the break angle for me.

 

[bodia]

I just think people don't know what they're doing. I've always done straight through and lock.

 

[toothace]

I just think people don't know what they're doing. I've always done straight through and lock.

^This.

 

[Tone-y]

Yep me too, straight through, lock, and then about half a turn to put the tension on the string.

 

[Mozzi]

Maybe the person who is changing strings doesn't pull them through enough before tightening the lock screw and thus having to wind a lot of the excess around the post. What ever the reason though, they aren't utilising the 'locking' tuners at all and may as well of just had normal pegs. The whole purpose of locking tuners is to avoid all those winds and thus make it quicker and easier to change strings. There is the 'added' bonus of 'tuning' stability - although if you know how to wind strings around a regular tuner, you don't get tuning stability problems anyway....

 

[veinbuster]

Just old habits that are hard to break. It isn’t quite as offensive looking as with winged tuners though.

 

[316ms]

To be honest, as I've never done it on mine, I'm having to imagine how it would work in relation to how it works on other tuners. If you wind the string around the post and feed the string downwards as it wraps around, its final position is lower on the post than it would be with no wraps at all. Therefore the break angle over the nut is increased.

Like I said, I've never done this on my phase II. But I do tend to wrap and feed down on non-locking machine heads, but this is more to do with making the string secure than increasing the break angle for me.

The only angle that would matter would be the direction from the nut. The height being higher or lower does not change the angle. The way the string comes off the post and goes towards the nut will not change unless you move the running peg inside or outside from its original position. Which means of course * a nightmare* the angle wont change by the height , it's still being pulled in the same direction. Maybe if its lower it adds more tension because its adding distance? Still it's the same angle. I appreciate your reply and not being argumentative but it does not make sense. The string is locked then pulled into pitch tension. That's not going to changing without more length added to the distance from the nut. Glad you don't do this as I dont and maybe some explains why. So far everyone says it's pointless and most may not know how to actually use locking tuners.. peace

 

[316ms]

^This.

Agreed. I cant believe I've encountered this on 3 wood library guitars. The purpose of the string thru the hole is so you dont have to wind the damn string. If there was a benefit then I'd love to know what it is. I guess it's like hey "I've got a Ferrari but I usually ride my moped instead because I am almost smarter than my wallet but not quite.. wth

 

[316ms]

Just old habits that are hard to break. It isn’t quite as offensive looking as with winged tuners though.

Old habits? Or "inability to adapt to why something has been created to everyone's benefit" pointless. Maybe its blind people that have done this if so , my apologies

 

[toothace]

It isn’t quite as offensive looking as with winged tuners though.

Hey...watch your mouth!

 

[Tone-y]

The only angle that would matter would be the direction from the nut. The height being higher or lower does not change the angle. The way the string comes off the post and goes towards the nut will not change unless you move the running peg inside or outside from its original position. Which means of course * a nightmare* the angle wont change by the height , it's still being pulled in the same direction. Maybe if its lower it adds more tension because its adding distance? Still it's the same angle. I appreciate your reply and not being argumentative but it does not make sense. The string is locked then pulled into pitch tension. That's not going to changing without more length added to the distance from the nut. Glad you don't do this as I dont and maybe some explains why. So far everyone says it's pointless and most may not know how to actually use locking tuners.. peace

Well I did say that I was having to imagine how it would work from memory, I can't check how this would actually work on phase II tuners until I get back from work - It's 4PM where I am.

Assuming that the phase II work how every other machine head works, only with a locking screw through the winding post - If you thread the string through the hole with some slack in the string left, then clamp the locking screw to secure the string, you then have to wind the excess slack around the post. Generally, when you wind around the post, every completed turn sits below the turn before, thus reducing the height of the string in relation to the nut. Exactly how using a string tree increases the break angle of the string in relation to the nut.

I think we must be visualizing and describing different things as to me this is plainly clear that adding extra wraps around the post and winding the string down as you do it increases the break angle to the nut. Now whether that is in any way advantageous to do I can't answer, I only offered it up as a possible motivation behind the practice.

 

[Tone-y]

I happen to have a picture of my headstock. As you can just about see, no excess wraps. But if I were to have slack in the string when I locked, and wrapped the excess around the post, I would make sure they sat nearer the headstock with each turn. Nearer the headstock to me means increased break angle of the string to the nut.
Again, to reiterate, I think this is unnecessary, but it may be why some people have lots of wraps on their locking tuners

 

[316ms]

Well I did say that I was having to imagine how it would work from memory, I can't check how this would actually work on phase II tuners until I get back from work - It's 4PM where I am.

Assuming that the phase II work how every other machine head works, only with a locking screw through the winding post - If you thread the string through the hole with some slack in the string left, then clamp the locking screw to secure the string, you then have to wind the excess slack around the post. Generally, when you wind around the post, every completed turn sits below the turn before, thus reducing the height of the string in relation to the nut. Exactly how using a string tree increases the break angle of the string in relation to the nut.

I think we must be visualizing and describing different things as to me this is plainly clear that adding extra wraps around the post and winding the string down as you do it increases the break angle to the nut. Now whether that is in any way advantageous to do I can't answer, I only offered it up as a possible motivation behind the practice.

Ok, so in reference to your great explanation, I agree you have more of an angle , so is that mean increased distance to the nut and increased tension? It seems to make sense that It would add tension between the peg and the nut? Adding tension add stability to the pitch holding? These are guitars with trems so the tension will be lowered when depressing the trem arm, so would the break angle add "return to pitch " stability? Or neither does increasing the break angle add a slinkier feel to the guitar in general when playing/bending notes? Thanks again for your explanation.. I had heard mention of this and I am trying to learn if there is an advantage. If so I am all in. Seems it would increase tension in feel, but obviously I'm no physicist...

 

[Tone-y]

To be honest, I don't know all the merits and downsides of break angle at the nut, all I know is that some break angle is needed, probably to seat the strings in the nut properly. What the optimal angle is I don't know

 

[veinbuster]

To be honest, I don't know all the merits and downsides of break angle at the nut, all I know is that some break angle is needed, probably to seat the strings in the nut properly. What the optimal angle is I don't know

I’m pretty sure PRS is detail oriented enough that the angle is correct with the string pulled through the tuner where it belongs.

 

[316ms]

I’m pretty sure PRS is detail oriented enough that the angle is correct with the string pulled through the tuner where it belongs.

Definitely agree. So why would anyone wrap as the OP states? It was mentioned to change the break angle, why is the mystery. Pointless I believe, the break angle as already as it should be.