Might Try Some EL34s In The Lone Star.

[JasonE]

I love that the Lonestar has a preset bias switch for the EL34 option on the back. I love El34 cleans, I really like the sparkle and grind you get when you lean into it. They definitely purr hotter when driven, too, so it's great to hear you noticed a lead channel difference. Whether it was an improvement, only you could say. Got any clips?

The Mesa Roadster has a switch on the back to flip the fixed bias between 6L6 and EL34 too. The EL34s definitely change the sound and character of the Roadster too. Like the cleans and light broken sounds better with the EL34s. They are tighter. The 6L6s break up sooner and to my ear get mushy as they break up more. I usually like the EL34s better in most amps. As I say that, the funny thing is the three amps I have in my room right now all have 6L6 tubes in them. I like the tones the Twin Sister gets with 6L6 tubes in it. My Marsh has a nice warm clean tone with the 6L6s in it. That is what sold me on that amp.

 

[Bogner]

For Me It Depends On The Amplifier. Some I Like 34's, Some I Like 6L6's And I Am Always A Fan Of Big Glass When It Can Be Used.

 

[László]

I love that the Lonestar has a preset bias switch for the EL34 option on the back. I love El34 cleans, I really like the sparkle and grind you get when you lean into it. They definitely purr hotter when driven, too, so it's great to hear you noticed a lead channel difference. Whether it was an improvement, only you could say. Got any clips?

I haven't recorded it yet, but I will once I decide whether I want to replace the V2 Brimar tube with the unusually low output. I like what's happening with a spanky-clean tone, but it makes getting 'edge of breakup' a little tricky when using the guitar's volume control, which I was doing on the clean channel before I installed the EL-34s.

Thing is, now that I can actually use the lead channel, that may not be very important. So the jury's out.

I have a couple of NOS tubes I can install in that spot if need be. But I figure I'll work with the amp for a while before making another change.

 

[László]

The Mesa Roadster has a switch on the back to flip the fixed bias between 6L6 and EL34 too.

My early-production Tremoverb (1992?) had the switch, too. It's interesting that Mesa has kept that option going for quite some time.

The EL34s definitely change the sound and character of the Roadster too. Like the cleans and light broken sounds better with the EL34s. They are tighter. The 6L6s break up sooner and to my ear get mushy as they break up more. I usually like the EL34s better in most amps. As I say that, the funny thing is the three amps I have in my room right now all have 6L6 tubes in them. I like the tones the Twin Sister gets with 6L6 tubes in it. My Marsh has a nice warm clean tone with the 6L6s in it. That is what sold me on that amp.

I can relate - I've always been into 6L6s with a Mesa amp for some reason; same with my Two-Rocks. Yet I love an EL34 sound, and my current favorite amps have a British flavor (HXDA, DG30).

One thing that sparked me to try the EL34s is that I love the Mesa Fillmore 50 I have, and it's purely a 6L6 amp. I actually prefer the Fillmore in several ways, and since getting it have used the Lone Star a lot less. So I figured I'd take advantage of the tube choice to make the Lone Star sound a little further away from the tone of the Fillmore.

The Lone Star owner's manual suggests that since most EL34s made today are less reliable than 6L6s, it's worthwhile running the amp on its 'Tweed' power switch setting, which is actually a variac that sets the amp to run at 90 volts internally instead of 117. That way the tubes are, in the manual's description, "coasting." Yeah, I actually read the manuals that come with my gear.

However, the Siemens tubes are NOS, and are probably made a little better. Still, I'll probably run the amp on the Tweed setting most of the time, since it also sounds good.

 

[ViperDoc]

The Mesa Roadster has a switch on the back to flip the fixed bias between 6L6 and EL34 too. The EL34s definitely change the sound and character of the Roadster too. Like the cleans and light broken sounds better with the EL34s. They are tighter. The 6L6s break up sooner and to my ear get mushy as they break up more. I usually like the EL34s better in most amps. As I say that, the funny thing is the three amps I have in my room right now all have 6L6 tubes in them. I like the tones the Twin Sister gets with 6L6 tubes in it. My Marsh has a nice warm clean tone with the 6L6s in it. That is what sold me on that amp.

I thought the Twin Sister shipped with 5881s. Did you make that switch yourself or was yours shipped with 6L6s?I know the 5881 are basically a shorter 6L6, but they definitely have their own character. Not quite the same, maybe a bit darker. I built an HP Tweed Twin last year with quad 5881s and it is LOUD. OMG.

EDIT: Here's a gutshot of my Tweed Twin build.

 

[JasonE]

My early-production Tremoverb (1992?) had the switch, too. It's interesting that Mesa has kept that option going for quite some time.


I can relate - I've always been into 6L6s with a Mesa amp for some reason; same with my Two-Rocks. Yet I love an EL34 sound, and my current favorite amps have a British flavor (HXDA, DG30).

One thing that sparked me to try the EL34s is that I love the Mesa Fillmore 50 I have, and it's purely a 6L6 amp. I actually prefer the Fillmore in several ways, and since getting it have used the Lone Star a lot less. So I figured I'd take advantage of the tube choice to make the Lone Star sound a little further away from the tone of the Fillmore.

The Lone Star owner's manual suggests that since most EL34s made today are less reliable than 6L6s, it's worthwhile running the amp on its 'Tweed' power switch setting, which is actually a variac that sets the amp to run at 90 volts internally instead of 117. That way the tubes are, in the manual's description, "coasting." Yeah, I actually read the manuals that come with my gear.

However, the Siemens tubes are NOS, and are probably made a little better. Still, I'll probably run the amp on the Tweed setting most of the time, since it also sounds good.

I am not sure if they still put the option on their amps to switch the bias for the different tube types. My Roadster is far from newer. I think I bought min in 2008 maybe.

With a Mesa amp, you have to read the manual. The way the controls all feed off of one another is not like other amps. You can drive yourself nuts if you don't know that part of the amp.

I thought the Twin Sister shipped with 5881s. Did you make that swithc yourself or was your shipped with 6L6s?I know the 5881 are basically a shorter 6L6, but they definitely have their own character. Not quite the same, maybe a bit darker. I built an HP Tweed Twin last year with quad 5881s and it is LOUD. OMG.

You are correct. I don't know why I was thinking they were 6L6 tubes. They are 5881 tubes.

 

[Prina]

Here's a gutshot.

Nice work. Nice guts.

 

[László]

I thought the Twin Sister shipped with 5881s. Did you make that switch yourself or was yours shipped with 6L6s?I know the 5881 are basically a shorter 6L6, but they definitely have their own character. Not quite the same, maybe a bit darker. I built an HP Tweed Twin last year with quad 5881s and it is LOUD. OMG.

EDIT: Here's a gutshot.

A thing of joy and merriment, no doubt! Lovely!

 

[JasonE]

I thought the Twin Sister shipped with 5881s. Did you make that switch yourself or was yours shipped with 6L6s?I know the 5881 are basically a shorter 6L6, but they definitely have their own character. Not quite the same, maybe a bit darker. I built an HP Tweed Twin last year with quad 5881s and it is LOUD. OMG.

EDIT: Here's a gutshot.

Cool to see what's inside. I have never opened mine up. I really like this amp a lot. I was really liking what I was seeing about the Dirty Shirley and when this one came out, I had to have it. Having the second channel is exactly what I thought the DS was missing so this one was exactly what I wanted the DS to be.

I got kind of lucky when I bought mine. They were out of stock everywhere for a long time. I saw one pop on to reverb and bought it. This was right after a $100 price increase. The seller reached out to me and told me that if I went to their website and bought it they would cancel the sale on reverb and sell it to me at the pre-price increase amount. It was from a reputable dealer so I had no issue doing this and saving the money.

Getting a DS cabinet was another whole adventure. I ordered one from Sweetwater. It took almost a year to get it. In that time, they started collecting tax for my state and the price went up $50. Since my order was in before those things happened, I got it at the old price and no tax. It has gone up another $50 since I got it. They also now put a Redback speaker in the cabinet instead of the Creamback 65 that is in mine. I never run mine loud enough to worry about blowing the Creamback speaker. In the time I was waiting for the cabinet, I bought a Creamback 75 and put it in a sealed Fender 1x12 cabinet I have for my Hotrod Deluxe. I was using that while waiting on the Friedman cabinet. Now I can run both and get a really full spectrum of tone from the amp.

 

[László]

I am not sure if they still put the option on their amps to switch the bias for the different tube types. My Roadster is far from newer. I think I bought min in 2008 maybe.

I know for sure they have it on the Mark VII, Badlander, Rectifier and Triple Crown, so it seems to be on their more 'modern' style amps. I haven't looked at the rear panels of their other recent amps except the Fillmore, that doesn't have the switch.

 

[ViperDoc]

Cool to see what's inside. I have never opened mine up. I really like this amp a lot. I was really liking what I was seeing about the Dirty Shirley and when this one came out, I had to have it. Having the second channel is exactly what I thought the DS was missing so this one was exactly what I wanted the DS to be.

I got kind of lucky when I bought mine. They were out of stock everywhere for a long time. I saw one pop on to reverb and bought it. This was right after a $100 price increase. The seller reached out to me and told me that if I went to their website and bought it they would cancel the sale on reverb and sell it to me at the pre-price increase amount. It was from a reputable dealer so I had no issue doing this and saving the money.

Getting a DS cabinet was another whole adventure. I ordered one from Sweetwater. It took almost a year to get it. In that time, they started collecting tax for my state and the price went up $50. Since my order was in before those things happened, I got it at the old price and no tax. It has gone up another $50 since I got it. They also now put a Redback speaker in the cabinet instead of the Creamback 65 that is in mine. I never run mine loud enough to worry about blowing the Creamback speaker. In the time I was waiting for the cabinet, I bought a Creamback 75 and put it in a sealed Fender 1x12 cabinet I have for my Hotrod Deluxe. I was using that while waiting on the Friedman cabinet. Now I can run both and get a really full spectrum of tone from the amp.

That's a gut shot of my own Tweed HB Twin I built in my garage. The parallel was the 5881 tube. Note the vintage chassis. Shoehorning all that newfangled stuff in there taint easy!

 

[László]

I decided to swap another NOS GE into v2 and replace the lower output Brimar. The amp sounds better pushed a little harder.

I had a pretty long play today with the DGT; sounds great with the Lone Star. While I do prefer the 6L6s with the amp set clean, the EL34s really set the lead channel up nicely. In fact, I now like the lead channel as much if not more than the crunch mode on the Fillmore. That's saying a lot, since that amp really works for me. So now I have two good options when I'm in the mood for a crunchier Mesa sound.

Despite the tube swaps, the PRS CAD amps are still my 'Mac Daddy' amps. However, it's great to have these options.

 

[László]

And...

I just shared my big "discovery" with my son, who tours with Lone Stars. I figured I had a real scoop! Nope. He's been using EL34s in his amps on tour lately because he likes the juicier top end on the gain channel when he's playing with bands that use a bit higher gain.

Like son, like father I guess!

 

[Alnus Rubra]

And...

I just shared my big "discovery" with my son, who tours with Lone Stars. I figured I had a real scoop!

Nope. He's been using EL34s in his amps on tour because he likes the juicier top end on the gain channel. Like son, like father I guess!

“I believe the children are our future….”

 

[László]

With EL34s, I've discovered that I prefer the Lone Star through my cabs with V-30s instead of the Black Shadow 90s that came in my LS 2x12 combo, or the 4x10 Mesa cab with Celestion Creams.

I seem to get a juicier, squishier tone with the V30s when running EL34s.

This is the opposite of how I feel with 6L6s, which I think is interesting!

 

[László]

Because of what @JasonE said about v1 in a Lone Star. I put an NOS JAN GE 12AX7 military-spec tube in v1.

Sounds very much like the RCA I had in that spot before (I haven't tried the recently-acquired RCA 7025 yet but I doubt I'll put it in the Lone Star, since to have the most effect on the sound, it should be in V1, and they're pretty rare birds.

I'll install the RCA in v2. Should be a good combination.

 

[László]

Sounds like hell to me. I used to love doing all this stuff... modding, experimentation, umpteen tube swaps... these days, I just want stuff to work. I just want it to sound great without effort- that's why I purchased it!! This goes for guitars as well as amps... maybe it's just been too many years, but I'm tired of tinkering, I'd rather just PLAY!

It is indeed a bit hellish to do all the work and contortions involved in dicking around with this tube stuff.

I'm spending time on this amp for a couple of reasons. I actually bought it so my son would have something to play through that he's used to; he uses Lone Stars on tour, sounds great through them, and I figured he might have fun if I put one in my studio.

I liked the amp but wasn't crazy about it until I installed NOS tubes. Now I really love it. On the other hand, there's a characteristic Mesa similarity between the Lone Star and Fillmore, and since I have both, I wanted them to sound even more different from one another. So I'm tweaking things for now. I'll leave it alone once the train pulls into the station and I get to my happy place.

I stopped screwing around with my guitars a long time ago. But I just don't like the tubes that come with modern amps, so...I fiddle about here in hell!

 

[László]

One additional bit to add: Playing clean through the Lone Star with EL34s, I need to dial in more reverb than I do with 6L6s. The EL34s sound a bit more upfront in the midrange, and less 'bouncy' than with 6L6s.

You can tell the amp was voiced for 6L6s, but heck, whatever works, works.

 

[László]

In the most recent meaningful installment of As The Tubes Roll, I had installed the NOS Siemens EL34s into my Mesa Lone Star 100, and put an NOS Brimar CV4004 (ECC83 military version) in V2, which handles the second and third gain stages of the amp.

I liked the EL34s, especially in Channel Two, but wasn't sure I liked the Brimar - this particular tube's output was kinda low. Channel One didn't have its usual 3D tone and chime, though Channel Two sounded better than with 6L6s. As a result of V2 being a bit weak, I had to turn the volume and gain knobs way up and still couldn't quite make it to the promised land.

Today was the one-week anniversary of having my second eye's cataract surgery, and I was finally permitted to resume normal activities, meaning most apropos of the day, I could finish the tube rolling in my Mesa Lone Star combo (at 85 pounds, it's a beast to lift and turn over to install tubes, and my restriction was 10-20 pounds).

Thus today was Eyeball Emancipation Day.

I removed the Brimar, and installed an NOS JAN GE 12AX7WA in V2 (handles second and third gain stages).

Having a pair of these JAN GEs in V1 and V2, in combination with the Siemens EL34s proved to be the ticket.

The amp sounds better to me than it ever has, and the Siemens EL34s are everything I'd hoped for in this amp - no trade off in the clean channel now, it's awesome. In fact, I no longer want to add more reverb than usual.

BTW, V3 and V4 are Siemens E83CCs, a low noise 12AX7 variant meant for medical equipment. V5 I wanted to try a Mesa SPAX7 (JJ special purpose that I thought might be fine in the PI position).

Now the EL34s shine like the Great Gods Of NOS Tubes intended.

The tube train has at last rolled into the station! The amp is DONE. I'm a very happy camper. Beers all around!

"You're the only one around. Your wife is sleeping, and she doesn't drink beer, your kids are elsewhere in the US, and most of your friends are as old as you and won't stop by this late."

"OK, beers for me then!"

"You're too freaking old for beers this late."

"Maybe a graham cracker?"

"Sure. One graham cracker. Have yourself a party."

 

[Bogner]

And Now The Sonic Circle Is Complete...Good For You!