Made a couple changes to the Wet/Dry Rig:

[Longneck Tenon]

I decided to run the wet amp without any overdrive pedals and rely only on amp breakup with the master volume after watching David Grissom on his rig setup. This also made me decide to move the modulation, delay and reverb pedals out of the effects loop and place them in front of the wet amp. Made a huge difference in the sound from that amp. Curious if anyone else prefers this setup.

 

[László]

I decided to run the wet amp without any overdrive pedals and rely only on amp breakup with the master volume after watching David Grissom on his rig setup. This also made me decide to move the modulation, delay and reverb pedals out of the effects loop and place them in front of the wet amp. Made a huge difference in the sound from that amp. Curious if anyone else prefers this setup.

When I do wet/dry, all pedals go into the front of the wet amp, but I'll also have to admit I don't really like effects loops in any amp and don't use them.

I'm big on amp breakup instead of pedals, too.

 

[ViperDoc]

The amps chosen change things. I tend to only put space and time into the wet amp’s effects loop and keep modulation and overdrive in front with the modulation first.

 

[Longneck Tenon]

When I do wet/dry, all pedals go into the front of the wet amp, but I'll also have to admit I don't really like effects loops in any amp and don't use them.

I'm big on amp breakup instead of pedals, too.

It’s funny, I bought the amp because it had an effects loop and it was designed as a “pedal platform” amp. So I ran it fairly clean and put my modulation, delay and reverb in the loop. But when I demoed it at the store it was dialed in with a fair amount of gain and no overdrive pedals, and it sounded great. Most of my other amps didn’t have an effects loop, and it wasn’t really an issue. So I finally listened to my own ears instead of all the hype written about it.

 

[László]

It’s funny, I bought the amp because it had an effects loop and it was designed as a “pedal platform” amp. So I ran it fairly clean and put my modulation, delay and reverb in the loop. But when I demoed it at the store it was dialed in with a fair amount of gain and no overdrive pedals, and it sounded great. Most of my other amps didn’t have an effects loop, and it wasn’t really an issue. So I finally listened to my own ears instead of all the hype written about it.

I'm with ya. Modulation and Delay do tend to sound different in a loop on an overdriven amp, though things can be great either way. For me it's just a preference, maybe an acquired taste.

My wet amp is the Lone Star, and it has a loop. I tried it, but found that I like the way going into the preamp section blends the various modulation and delay elements a little differently.

 

[Longneck Tenon]

I'm with ya. Modulation and Delay do tend to sound different in a loop on an overdriven amp, though things can be great either way. For me it's just a preference, maybe an acquired taste.

My wet amp is the Lone Star, and it has a loop. I tried it, but found that I like the way going into the preamp section blends the various modulation and delay elements a little differently.

This. I was playing Dimension C Chorus into a Carbon Copy Delay and Keeley Reverb yesterday and there was definitely more harmonic interaction between them than when they were in the effects loop.

 

[Longneck Tenon]

The amps chosen change things. I tend to only put space and time into the wet amp’s effects loop and keep modulation and overdrive in front with the modulation first.

Definitely depends on the guitar, amp and pedals being used.

 

[László]

This. I was playing Dimension C Chorus into a Carbon Copy Delay and Keeley Reverb yesterday and there was definitely more harmonic interaction between them than when they were in the effects loop.

Yup. Unlike a hi fi amp, a tube guitar amp usually has distortion in the 10% range even run clean. A good chunk of that comes from the preamp. It's the harmonic distortion that seems to make everything bloom.

For some players that harmonic bloom is a great recipe, for others it's the wrong sauce. But I like it.

 

[Prina]

For some players that harmonic bloom is a great recipe

Yep, at least the even harmonics which are the ones that tubes mostly produce.

Not sure if anyone likes odd harmonics.

 

[László]

Not sure if anyone likes odd harmonics.

Here's an interesting thing: You get both even and odd order harmonics with both tubes and transistors, just in different amounts.

Tubes produce more even-order harmonics than transistors, but they also produce odd-order harmonics. The odd-order harmonics are just lower in amplitude.

Transistors tend to produce more odd-order harmonics, but they also produce even-order harmonics with less amplitude. I'm guessing that different transistor types affect these harmonics in some way, but I'm no electrical engineer and it's only a guess on my part. I do know that they behave differently because I read it on the internet so it must be true, right?

Many of us use transistor pedals to push our tube amps, so maybe folks do like odd harmonics!

 

[Longneck Tenon]

Yup. Unlike a hi fi amp, a tube guitar amp usually has distortion in the 10% range even run clean. A good chunk of that comes from the preamp. It's the harmonic distortion that seems to make everything bloom.

For some players that harmonic bloom is a great recipe, for others it's the wrong sauce. But I like it.

Like any sauce, everything has to be measured out and balanced!

 

[ViperDoc]

Definitely depends on the guitar, amp and pedals being used.

Emphasis on the word “tend”.

It’s been a while since I’ve watched the pedal order video on That Pedal Show, but after hearing the differences, I moved mono chorus in front of my OD pedals and placed a second modulation multi pedal in the loop for vibrato. If you haven’t watched that video (you probably have), check it out.

 

[bodia]

I’ve always run all pedals in front of the amp. Tried an effects loop on my Archon once. Just didn’t care for it.

 

[Longneck Tenon]

I’ve always run all pedals in front of the amp. Tried an effects loop on my Archon once. Just didn’t care for it.

The theory/idea of an effects loop sounds great. My pedals through one, not so much.

 

[PRSAK]

I’ve always run all pedals in front of the amp. Tried an effects loop on my Archon once. Just didn’t care for it.

Even reverb? I gotta have reverb on my Archon (cuz I love reverb) and so I just keep a TCE Hall of Fame in the loop all the time.

 

[bodia]

Even reverb? I gotta have reverb on my Archon (cuz I love reverb) and so I just keep a TCE Hall of Fame in the loop all the time.

Yup, even reverb. All in front for me.

 

[gush]

Yup, even reverb. All in front for me.

For some reason I've never gelled with reverb on my amp. I can't recall any reverb that I thought sounded good on my amps.


I'm just an odd duck most times!

 

[László]

Even reverb? I gotta have reverb on my Archon (cuz I love reverb) and so I just keep a TCE Hall of Fame in the loop all the time.

Yup, even reverb. All in front for me.

For some reason I've never gelled with reverb on my amp. I can't recall any reverb that I thought sounded good on my amps.


I'm just an odd duck most times!

There's no right or wrong to this stuff. It's all personal taste.

It's never a bad idea to try things both in the loop and in front of the amp with a piece of gear to see what works. But for me, in front of the amp usually floats my boat a bit more with pedals. With rack mount gear, like high end reverbs, it might be different, but it's been a long time since I've done that.

I think part of the problem is that a loop has to be all things to all players, and try to work with any piece of gear in terms of input/output level, polarity, noise, etc.

It's hard to accomplish that without experiencing various issues, and I think lots of manufacturers just take the path of least resistance and accept whether compromises are deemed necessary for the average player. Trouble is, none of us are 'average'. The average player may not exist, since we all use different stuff.

 

[Bogner]

There Are So Many Variables That It Is Hard To Make A Blanket Statement. Things Are So Amp, Pedal, Desired Tone, Etc. Dependent. The Amount Of Gain Used And If It Is Amp Or Pedal Driven Or A Bit Of Both Can Also Radically Alter Things And Bring Noise. Additionally, Some Pedals Just Don't Like Playing Nice With Other Pedals.

In Most Instances I Use Amp Gain And In Most Instances My Pedals Go Through The Other Amp With Less Gain Being Used In The Blended Tone. The FX Lops Are Good, Some Are Decent And Others Not So Good. Again, It All Comes Down To What You Are After And What You Have To Work With. I Also Can't Express Enough How Important It Is For Good Cables And Possibly A Nice Gate To Alleviate Potential Noise Issues. I Hope Some Of This Helps.

 

[SteveGlitch]

I am always blown away at just how different my mix is every Sunday at church, even if everything remains the same (for the most part) from a Sunday to Sunday basis. Everything, literally everything, even the time of day/night affects the flow of electricity. The way the amp can dictate or interact with the sound of a pedal.

When I first got my Marshall JTM Studio, some friends on Facebook knew exactly how much I spent on it. One of my ex-co-worker friends sent me a video about how all amps sound the same if you EQ them just close enough and use the same speakers and tubes and so forth. I tried to explain to her that that's not all there is to it but I don't think I could convince them.

Anyway, personally,
I've learned a great deal from researching and experience with and seems I generally prefer NOT to use the effects loop in any clean pedal platform type of amp. The headroom is and should be enough for me to do what I must without worry. And usually Fender amps are the go-to at bigger churches because of this. As far as stereo rigs, I try to avoid that as well, even though I play at The same place every week and it's a mega church, Im on a rotation and I don't think it would be ideal to pursue something that didn't benefit greatly in our style auditorium. It would just create more issues that what it's worth. That's just for me though.